The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

[Jeffx]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

As long as Dolan is at the helm, we'll never have any success.

That's it in a nutshell. And if Dolan brings back Isiah, my 40+ year support of the Knicks comes to an end. All he does is sh*t on the fan base.

[NYJets]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

Gotta take Mudiay assuming the top 3 go as expected. Drafting based on system or fit is ridiculous when you are coming off a 17 win season.

I don't think trading the pick for a vet makes much sense. That's what all our cap space is for. Trading down for additional picks makes some sense but is hard to pull off.

[ehh]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

The WCS rumors are surely the good ol' "smokescreen", right?

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

Gotta take Mudiay assuming the top 3 go as expected. Drafting based on system or fit is ridiculous when you are coming off a 17 win season.

I don't think trading the pick for a vet makes much sense. That's what all our cap space is for. Trading down for additional picks makes some sense but is hard to pull off.

I could see them trading down, swapping 2015 1st rounders and getting a protected 2016 1st rounder.

Just bad business from Grunwald and the Melo trade.

At total worst, Mudiay will be on the board.

This is just a mess.

The WCS rumors are surely the good ol' "smokescreen", right?

Better be. He brings nothing at that high of a pick and how would he fit in.

[bigfnjoe96]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

If Monroe is a HIGH FA Target, then I believe WCS is in play. He is BY FAR the Best Defensive Big and most ahtletic BIG in the Draft.

USA Today states he is 1 of 3 SAFE Picks in this years draft, and I agree. At #4 IMO it's better to be safe, then to reach

Willie Cauley-Stein, Kentucky

It's been many years since John Stockton and Karl Malone made the pick and roll a staple in NBA offenses. Since then, acquiring players who could play the pick and roll has become a major focus for NBA front offices.

It's only natural, then, that defending the pick and roll has incredible value as well, and there is perhaps no big man in this draft more equipped to defend pick and rolls than Cauley-Stein.

Cauley-Stein has always been a good shot blocker, having averaged 2.5 per game over his first two seasons at Kentucky. With the arrival of Karl-Anthony Towns this season Cauley-Stein, was pushed out on the perimeter defensively. While doing that caused a drop in his shot blocking numbers, it also helped showcase just how versatile and unique of a defender he really is.

Cauley-Stein's as quick and athletic as any 7-footer in basketball. He has physical traits which not only allow him to defend perimeter-oriented big men but also allow him to jump out on ball handlers on the pick and roll, slow them down, and recover back to his man. Cauley-Stein even shows an ability to switch out on, and hold his own against, quick guards that would eat slower-footed big men alive.

A player with that defensive versatility will find a role in this league, even if his offensive game never fully catches up.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/draft/2015/05/29/nba-draft-safe-picks/28093819/

[CMH]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

I don't know. I know some of the more well aware Knicks fans we have here that follow CBB didn't like Cauley-Stein, but I'm a fan.

I don't think he will be a hall of famer. But I think he's the type of big who will have a long career and fans will look back on and say, I can't believe he dropped that much. Unless he goes 4 then he might be where he should be.

sent from my mobile device

[jb12780]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

I'd be shocked if the Knicks took WCS. Dolan might overrule and take Mudiay.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

If Monroe is a HIGH FA Target, then I believe WCS is in play. He is BY FAR the Best Defensive Big and most ahtletic BIG in the Draft.

USA Today states he is 1 of 3 SAFE Picks in this years draft, and I agree. At #4 IMO it's better to be safe, then to reach

Willie Cauley-Stein, Kentucky

It's been many years since John Stockton and Karl Malone made the pick and roll a staple in NBA offenses. Since then, acquiring players who could play the pick and roll has become a major focus for NBA front offices.

It's only natural, then, that defending the pick and roll has incredible value as well, and there is perhaps no big man in this draft more equipped to defend pick and rolls than Cauley-Stein.

Cauley-Stein has always been a good shot blocker, having averaged 2.5 per game over his first two seasons at Kentucky. With the arrival of Karl-Anthony Towns this season Cauley-Stein, was pushed out on the perimeter defensively. While doing that caused a drop in his shot blocking numbers, it also helped showcase just how versatile and unique of a defender he really is.

Cauley-Stein's as quick and athletic as any 7-footer in basketball. He has physical traits which not only allow him to defend perimeter-oriented big men but also allow him to jump out on ball handlers on the pick and roll, slow them down, and recover back to his man. Cauley-Stein even shows an ability to switch out on, and hold his own against, quick guards that would eat slower-footed big men alive.

A player with that defensive versatility will find a role in this league, even if his offensive game never fully catches up.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...icks/28093819/

There's a reason WCS had to stay 3 years.

I could see him developing into a DeAndre Jordan-lite if he puts on weight. But to take him at #4 when he'd give you nothing on the offensive end in this offense would be a total waste IMO.

We need talent. I don't think he has much of it. Moreso a garbage pail guy.

I do agree though that pairing him with Monroe will mask both of their deficiencies and that would be a tall frontline.

But our backcourt would be trash.

[CMH]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

I think that's the key. The Knicks can resolve size issues in free agency. But they need the draft to solve their backcourt issues.

Even if Mudiay is a toss up, how can the organization pass up on him?

The only fear I have is with guards you either find a great one or its one of the same with the others. And for that, it could also be a waste at 4 if Mudiay is basically a Bulls backup point guard.

sent from my mobile device

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

Top 5 guards-

2014:
#4. Dante Exum
#5. Marcus Smart

2013:
#2. Victor Oladipo

2012:
#3. Bradley Beal
#4. Dion Waiters

2011:
#1. Kyrie Irving

2010:
#1. John Wall

I think you gotta go guard. Trying to land a quality one in FA will either have a drop off in talent or you'll wind up overpaying.

And by no means do I think Mudiay is up there with those guys. Just saying potential for a top guard is high.

[Hassan Darkside]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

Agreed. Your FA class of quality PGs is really thin compared to defensive/rebounding big men. I don't think WCS is going to give you much more than what's out there right off the bat, but Mudiay could.

[bigfnjoe96]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

There's a reason WCS had to stay 3 years.

I could see him developing into a DeAndre Jordan-lite if he puts on weight. But to take him at #4 when he'd give you nothing on the offensive end in this offense would be a total waste IMO.

We need talent. I don't think he has much of it. Moreso a garbage pail guy.

I do agree though that pairing him with Monroe will mask both of their deficiencies and that would be a tall frontline.

But our backcourt would be trash.

If the Knicks could trade down and still get Stein, that's obviously the better scenario.

I really believe Phil likes WCS a lot

Someone wanting to move up also may be the best way to dump Calderon.

If we don't trade, I believe we take Mudiay @ 4 if he's available, but would not be surprised if he takes WCS @ 4 over Mudiay

Now if Russell is available, there's no doubt in my mind Russell is the pick

Sent from Communication Device

[ehh]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

If Monroe is a HIGH FA Target, then I believe WCS is in play. He is BY FAR the Best Defensive Big and most ahtletic BIG in the Draft.

Some more on that...

http://www.si.com/nba/2015/05/29/nba-draft-karl-anthony-towns-jahlil-okafor-frank-kaminsky-delon-wright

Advanced stats warning, but it has Towns as the best defensive big man in the last six years of college (granted this is just college stats, NOT NBA projections). But WCS is the 2nd best of the last six years, even ahead of Anthony Davis.

Towns' defensive value was superior to Okafor's in college, and is likely to be superior to Okafor's in the NBA. I agree with this—it might be the most widely agreed-upon thing in the draft—but also think it short-changes Towns. By at least one metric, his defensive contributions were greater than any other college player over the past five seasons.

Basketball-Reference.com developed an all-encompassing stat called Win Shares; while the formula is complicated, it's essentially a hybrid of Dean Oliver's Offensive and Defensive ratings and Bill James' baseball concept of assessing individual credit for team success. BR has comprehensive college win-share data going back to '09-10, and if one takes strictly the defensive portion of the formula and applies it on a per-40 minute basis, the top 10 includes current all-NBA defender Draymond Green at No. 10, for his work at Michigan State in 2011-12, freak of nature Anthony Davis at No. 3, for his incredible D on Kentucky's 2012 national-title team … and Towns at No. 1.


Win Shares, like all other attempts at all-encompassing stats, has its flaws and blind spots. Defensively, it uses an Oliver rating that’s based on box-score stats (defensive boards, blocks and steals), which never tell the full story, and heavily favors big men who are on great overall defensive teams. So Towns's value could very well be overstated here, due to the fact that he excels at box-score defensive stats and struggles in less-measurable areas (leaving his feet and fouling, getting caught flat-footed on pick-and-rolls, being physical, etc.), and that he played alongside some excellent defenders at Kentucky. Expecting him to be a better NBA defender than Green or Davis would be unwise. But it's not a stretch to call Towns a key component of one of college basketball's greatest modern-era defenses and one of the top 2-3 defensive prospects in the entire draft—both of which are more appropriate labels than simply being called Better Than Okafor.

Good things to say about WCS...

2. Willie Cauley-Stein might still be underrated. That Kentucky's Cauley-Stein, the man whose middle name is now officially "Trill", is No. 2 in that DWS/40 chart despite his best qualities falling outside traditional box scores is remarkable. The rangy 7-footer gets his share of rebounds, blocks and steals, but when I charted the Wildcats' defense for an SI magazine project this season, Cauley-Stein's real value became evident in rim protection (he was Kentucky's best at this); overall turnovers forced (also best on the team on a per-possession basis); switchability on pick-and-rolls, handoffs and off-ball screens; and his ability to act as a sort of rover who could, on any given possession, guard men on the blocks, cut off penetration, or close out on perimeter shooters. It's these hard-to-track and less-quantifiable attributes that make Cauley-Stein a justifiable top-five pick with the potential for a long, valuable NBA career.

I still don't like him at #4 but it is it what it is.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

A state geeks wet dream.

Eye test tells you that he's nowhere near the defender that Anthony Davis and Nerlens Noel were. And Towns shouldn't even be in the discussion

To me, he's like a Marcus Camby on the defensive end which is great.

But he's just one of those free roamers that you'll never incorporate on the offensive side of the ball unless you're running pick & rolls all game like the Clippers.

Would I pair him with Monroe? Absolutely.

But again, not at 4.

Get a guard and then see if you can get a guy like Asik or someone like Quincy Acy on the cheap who can defend, board and block.

[ehh]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

DX has dropped Mudiay to #6, very interesting.

Sounds like there's zero chance we're taking him. Phil had better make the right pick here.