Boxing Off-Topic

[allBthere]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Are you suggesting they're elite? Please.

McGregor had a nice, stiff jab, which was surprising. He's a good counterpuncher, which we all knew. And his stance switch in the middle of a combination was nothing I've seen before -- very cool.

But his boxing skills were average, at best. Still, that's a hell of a lot better than I expected. He acquitted himself very well.

What I noticed he did that a lot of boxers don't do is throw a combination while getting hit. So floyd would land a shot but connor would keep throwing like a 1-2-3 and the hook caught floyd a few times - later floyd adjusted and threw lead rights while covering up immediately. I'm not talking pure counter-punching I'm talking about the muay thai mentality which is I'll take 1 shot in order to hit you 2 or 3 times. That would throw a lot of other boxers off I'm sure depending on the opponent.

I thought the fight was fun and surprised how entertaining it was, but that was because of what floyd said about coming straight forward just like he said and that he felt he owned an entertaining fight after his boring fight w/ pac - his words. I believe that too, he totally could have sat back like normal.

[GreenLightning]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

And what "record" is that? He's far from the first fighter to go 50-0.

Hell, Julio Cesar Chavez was 87-0 before he drew with Pernell Whittaker in 1993. Mayweather has a LONG way to go before he makes "history."

His record has a draw. Mayweather will have won all of his fights. No draws. Sabe?

[allBthere]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

His record has a draw. Mayweather will have won all of his fights. No draws. Sabe?

Actually I just thought of one thing Rocky may still have, not just that he retired 49-0 but that he retired as an undefeated champion.

I believe floyd doesn't hold any belts and thus has retired undefeated, but not as a champion?

[pk500]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

His record has a draw. Mayweather will have won all of his fights. No draws. Sabe?

OK. Then let's see Mayweather fight 38 more times to exceed Chavez's mark.

My point is 50-0 is not the "record" that Mayweather has depicted and sadly the sports media and casual boxing fans have adopted. Chavez's unblemished record in his first 87 fights -- not 50 -- is FAR more impressive and noteworthy.

But our hyperbole-obsessed world is a sucker for anything, so when Mayweather spews this "TBE" BS and how his 50-0 is the most significant achievement in boxing history, we drink that drivel from a fire hose because we're too stupid or lazy to look at facts.

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Actually I just thought of one thing Rocky may still have, not just that he retired 49-0 but that he retired as an undefeated champion.

I believe floyd doesn't hold any belts and thus has retired undefeated, but not as a champion?

He has the WBC money belt. LOL.

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Quite true. And I don't believe for a second anyone who thinks Mayweather let McGregor win those rounds on purpose to fatigue him, figure him out, etc.

Mayweather lost those rounds because McGregor still had stamina, was unorthodox AND effective.

What surprised me was that Conor didnt try to change anything when he came out. His stance was the same. He threw punches at the same speed and pace that he has against other strikers in MMA.

I think it took Floyd a few rounds to figure out how to approach him because it was different than what he saw before. That doesnt mean he gave away rounds. It means that he hesitant to throw because he was seeing something that he never saw before. Also, Conor was at full stamina during those rounds and anyone who has watched him fight knows hes the most dangerous in his first 5-10 minutes.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

After watching 24/7:Canelo/Golovkin it's hard to dislike either fighter.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

You said this fight was Floyd's worst performance. I watched the Berto fight and that was the same Floyd that you saw last night. Now the difference is Berto (the accomplished former boxing champion) won 0 rounds against that Floyd.

Conor arguably won 4 against that same Floyd.

pk already addressed it but it was not the same Floyd.

-When's the last time, if ever, you saw a peek-a-boo defense from Floyd?
-Did he walk Berto down?
-Shoulder roll?

What surprised me was that Conor didnt try to change anything when he came out. His stance was the same. He threw punches at the same speed and pace that he has against other strikers in MMA.

I think it took Floyd a few rounds to figure out how to approach him because it was different than what he saw before. That doesnt mean he gave away rounds. It means that he hesitant to throw because he was seeing something that he never saw before. Also, Conor was at full stamina during those rounds and anyone who has watched him fight knows hes the most dangerous in his first 5-10 minutes.

So Floyd, who led head first, was confused by Conor's unorthodox style? Lol.

You're confused by a much more powerful fighter than you and lead head first? If you say so.

Floyd wasn't hesitant to throw no matter how much you want to spin it. If he was hesitant to throw, he would've shoulder rolled and counterpunched for the first 3 rounds like he normally does.

Conor's getting props for nonsense. But I guess whatever it takes for people to digest what actually happened to their mans.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic



FLOYD shocked

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

- Just because every punch he throws isnt with full power doesnt mean he doesnt have power. He slap boxes when throwing combos in MMA but when he follows through, he tends to finish people. Now Floyd was a different case for a number of reasons. Different sport. Elite defensive skills. Easier sport to be defensive in.

Floyd moved forward regulalry against Berto and Ortiz and both of those guys have good power so I dont know if your "He wont move foward if he has decent power" theory works. Also, he wasnt moving forward in rounds 1-3 when Conor had full energy. If the power wasnt there, he wouldve started that earlier.

- I'll just agree to disagree here. The football vs. soccer analogy doesnt work because the structure of the sports are completely different. With these two sports the only major differences are the potential lengths of the rounds and the grappling aspect.

We only have two examples here: Conor was gassed after 4 rounds in boxing. James Toney (a person who REGULARLY fights 12 rounds with no major stamina issues) was completely gassed after 3:19 seconds of grappling against a all time great grappler. Now one example isnt enough to make a final statement but its all we have.

Now Conor (who gasses in MMA fights) and Toney arent the best examples of people with great stamina in combat sports. For as stamina taxing boxing can be, I can name a ton of MMA fighters (The Diazs, GSP etc.) who would be more than able to do 12 rounds without an issue.

- No the risk of submission has nothing to do with it. The only risk you have is your inactivity will give away rounds. As long as you have good/great takedown and submission defense, you can do nothing on your feet for as long as you want. You will lose rounds but its not like your inactivity will increase the chance of getting caught in a sub.

If anything activity leaves you more open because people can counter your strikes with takedowns.

We can agree to disagree on the stamina, though I was under the impression that Tony was not in shape for his mma bout. I didn't watch or follow it so my information on that is second hand.

But Conor's power is a point of contention.

As to using Floyd's elite defensive skills, I know you watched the fight, so what are you talking about? Floyd's elite defensive skills were not a part of this fight. He left that at home.

"Floyd moved forward regulalry against Berto and Ortiz" Okay so Floyd was not moving forward against them like he was against Conor and you know that full well. He was active, stood in the pocket and exchanged blows, but he kept both fighters at his usual comfortable distance.

Re: my theory on power stopping guys from moving forward, well it is a widely accepted theory. It is why many of Floyd's fights are sometimes boring because he has enough pop to make them reconsider. And allow me to reiterate, staying at arms reach is not moving forward. So when Floyd stayed in the pocket against Berto/Ortiz so that he could pop them with straights and jabs he was not moving forward. Tyson moving nonstop toward his opponent like a heat seeking missile? Moving forward. The latter is what Floyd did vs Conor.

"he wasn't moving forward in rounds 1-3..." If Conor's power is such that it is only a threat in the first 3 rounds I think it is fair to say he has very little boxing power.

Let me close on this, forget what he did in mma. Based on the boxing match we saw, Conor's power is very little. He wasn't following through on punches. If your position is that had he followed through his punches they would have power behind them that is fine, but then I don't know why you disagreed with me to begin with.

One last point on Floyd's strategy that I failed to explain why I thought it wouldn't work in mma -- he was wanting Conor to hit him and to entice him he was leaving himself open. What I was thinking about with a strategy like that was that leaving yourself open seems to me like it would be more risky in mma. I am under the impression that flash KOs happen more frequently in mma, to obviously go along with the danger of submission.

Finally a quick word on any claim that Floyd looked that same against Conor as he did against Berto. That is absolute rubbish and I don't give such claim any credibility. Floyd was obviously a completely different fighter in these 2 fights, and it may have nothing to do with age. He fought a completely different style, making any comparisons difficult.

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

pk already addressed it but it was not the same Floyd.

-When's the last time, if ever, you saw a peek-a-boo defense from Floyd?
-Did he walk Berto down?
-Shoulder roll?




So Floyd, who led head first, was confused by Conor's unorthodox style? Lol.

You're confused by a much more powerful fighter than you and lead head first? If you say so.

Floyd wasn't hesitant to throw no matter how much you want to spin it. If he was hesitant to throw, he would've shoulder rolled and counterpunched for the first 3 rounds like he normally does.

Conor's getting props for nonsense. But I guess whatever it takes for people to digest what actually happened to their mans.

I disagree with PK that his style was similar in the Berto fight (I was wrong about the Pac fight). With the exception of a few short stints on the ropes, he didnt use the shoulder roll much. He was actually more active and willing to stay in the middle of the ring. He looked a step slower in my opinion when it came to reaction time.

I question if you even watched the whole fight. First you say he gave away the first 3 rounds but now he was leading "head first" in those rounds? Was he active or not in those rounds? Was he leading or not?

Also I like how you ignored my statement about the 7th round earlier. Plenty of people (including Showtime) gave him that round. Floyd had adjusted and was moving forward that entire round. He threw 50 plus punches....but many had Conor winning that round. So what was the excuse for that round?

[Dave_S]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

McGregor had a nice, stiff jab, which was surprising. He's a good counterpuncher, which we all knew. And his stance switch in the middle of a combination was nothing I've seen before -- very cool.

If you thought that was cool you should watch a TJ Dillashaw fight.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I disagree with PK that his style was similar in the Berto fight (I was wrong about the Pac fight). With the exception of a few short stints on the ropes, he didnt use the shoulder roll much. He was actually more active and willing to stay in the middle of the ring. He looked a step slower in my opinion when it came to reaction time.

I question if you even watched the whole fight. First you say he gave away the first 3 rounds but now he was leading "head first" in those rounds? Was he active or not in those rounds? Was he leading or not?

Also I like how you ignored my statement about the 7th round earlier. Plenty of people (including Showtime) gave him that round. Floyd had adjusted and was moving forward that entire round. He threw 50 plus punches....but many had Conor winning that round. So what was the excuse for that round?

I can't speak for him but I don't think the two statements are contradictory. Floyd was leading head first quite a bit in the early rounds if I recall. He just wasn't throwing many punches after doing so. His strategy was to get Conor to tire himself out. He wanted Conor throwing punches so he moved in. Hell I remember several times where he moved in and just kept weaving his head low. That was when Conor was rabbit punching him the most, and the ref even warned Floyd to keep his head up.

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

We can agree to disagree on the stamina, though I was under the impression that Tony was not in shape for his mma bout. I didn't watch or follow it so my information on that is second hand.

But Conor's power is a point of contention.

As to using Floyd's elite defensive skills, I know you watched the fight, so what are you talking about? Floyd's elite defensive skills were not a part of this fight. He left that at home.

"Floyd moved forward regulalry against Berto and Ortiz" Okay so Floyd was not moving forward against them like he was against Conor and you know that full well. He was active, stood in the pocket and exchanged blows, but he kept both fighters at his usual comfortable distance.

Re: my theory on power stopping guys from moving forward, well it is a widely accepted theory. It is why many of Floyd's fights are sometimes boring because he has enough pop to make them reconsider. And allow me to reiterate, staying at arms reach is not moving forward. So when Floyd stayed in the pocket against Berto/Ortiz so that he could pop them with straights and jabs he was not moving forward. Tyson moving nonstop toward his opponent like a heat seeking missile? Moving forward. The latter is what Floyd did vs Conor.

"he wasn't moving forward in rounds 1-3..." If Conor's power is such that it is only a threat in the first 3 rounds I think it is fair to say he has very little boxing power.

Let me close on this, forget what he did in mma. Based on the boxing match we saw, Conor's power is very little. He wasn't following through on punches. If your position is that had he followed through his punches they would have power behind them that is fine, but then I don't know why you disagreed with me to begin with.

One last point on Floyd's strategy that I failed to explain why I thought it wouldn't work in mma -- he was wanting Conor to hit him and to entice him he was leaving himself open. What I was thinking about with a strategy like that was that leaving yourself open seems to me like it would be more risky in mma. I am under the impression that flash KOs happen more frequently in mma, to obviously go along with the danger of submission.

Finally a quick word on any claim that Floyd looked that same against Conor as he did against Berto. That is absolute rubbish and I don't give such claim any credibility. Floyd was obviously a completely different fighter in these 2 fights, and it may have nothing to do with age. He fought a completely different style, making any comparisons difficult.

Toney was in the same shape he has been the last 10-15 yrs and in that time he's been in over 10 12 round decisions.

LOL! So now Floyd wanted to Conor to hit him? Word? So Floyd had his hands down in those first 3 rounds?

Floyd wanted Conor to throw punches. Thats a fact and a decent strategy given that Conor has stamina issues. But making an argument that Floyd was so unafraid of Conor's power that he wanted Conor to connect is ****ing ridiculous. He was strictly defense the first 3 rounds. Now maybe it was all in the strategy. Maybe he was facing a guy with a weird stance, well reported power and punches coming from unorthodox angles that he wasnt used too.

The stats dont back that up either. Conor started landing MORE after the fourth round. So when Conor was at the height of his stamina and punching power....Floyd was at his most defensive. Just because he wasnt shoulder rolling doesnt mean he wasnt being defensive. Thats my point.

Floyd's strategy wouldnt work in MMA because he would have had his ****ing head kicked off or body kicked or leg kicked if he just hung against the ropes using a peak a boo style. He wouldnt have even been completely safe from punches because boxing gloves cover significantly more of the head than MMA gloves.

In the end, this is kind of what I expected from most boxing only fans. Some would give Conor his respect while at the same time acknowledging that Floyd dominated the fight as he should. Others werent going to do it unless Conor KO'd the guy.

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I can't speak for him but I don't think the two statements are contradictory. Floyd was leading head first quite a bit in the early rounds if I recall. He just wasn't throwing many punches after doing so. His strategy was to get Conor to tire himself out. He wanted Conor throwing punches so he moved in. Hell I remember several times where he moved in and just kept weaving his head low. That was when Conor was rabbit punching him the most, and the ref even warned Floyd to keep his head up.

I dont remember it that way. Conor's rabbit/hammer fists came during clinches. I also recall a number of times in the first or second where Floyd hung on the ropes using a peak a boo defense which is the exact opposite of leaning forward.