Boxing Off-Topic

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

(it wasn't AS close as people make it seem, he missed a lot of punches and landed less while throwing 200 more)

What people? Ah, the subjectiveness of scoring in boxing. In Argentina I'm sure they had it 9-3 Maidana. In this forum 9-3 Floyd. Many of the rounds were tough to score. The fight was close and it was more than competitive.

Actually, being tested matters.

Obviously, but has Floyd been tested against a puncher as crisp and devastating as Thurman (Diego Corrales simply wilted in their fight)? Sure Thurman has question marks defensively (his offensive is his defensive and I think I heard where he's been hurt a few times), but he'd come after Floyd. He wouldn't be as awkward as Maidana, but he'd be more accurate and more powerful. Bottomline.......FLOYD IS NOT FIGHTING THURMAN.

[boxtrev]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Keith Thurman? Are you kidding me? Thurman has raw power and is an interesting prospect but Mayweather would box circles around him.

How can anyone say the Pacquiao fight is no longer relevant? It is not only the only fight that makes sense for Floyd, it is the ONLY fight that makes sense in boxing. Regardless of who is at fault, these two need to resolve differences and make the fight happen. Sure, Pacquiao was knocked out by a punch he did not see coming from JMM. But anyone who is an avid follower of the sport can't say, "Well, because Mayweather dominated Marquez and Marquez knocked out Pacquiao, Pacquiao would get dominated by Mayweather." Styles make fights. Besides, Money fought JMM when he was still a blown up lightweight.

How can someone say that Pacquiao vs. Mayweather isn't a relevant fight when Floyd is busy taking fights against the likes of Maidana, Guerrero, Cotto, etc.? Is Maidana, who lost to Amir Khan and Devon Alexander, a relevant fight? Did anyone going into the fight think Maidana was anywhere near Floyd's caliber?

FM may be the best in boxing, but at least Pacquiao is making fights that make sense. He fights Marquez a third and fourth time because Marquez gives him the closest fights. He fights Bradley, an undefeated and up-and-coming young prospect, who he bests handedly but gets robbed. What does he do then? He has a fourth fight with Marquez, a fight in which he was winning and on the verge of knocking his rival out, when he gets caught with a shot that would short circuit anyone in the sport. After such a brutal knockout, he takes a tuneup fight against a dangerous puncher in Brandon Rios. Then, he goes and avenges the loss to a much improved Bradley.

If you ask me, both Floyd and Pacman have shown signs of slipping, but the difference is Mayweather keeps taking the safe fights. Pacman didn't look like his vintage self versus Bradley a month ago, but Bradley is also a legitimate, world-class fighter. Mayweather didn't look like his usual self last night, but I am not sure Maidana is a world-class fighter.

[boxtrev]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Remember, this Maidana is the same fighter who had a life-and-death struggle with a way-over-the-hill Morales. "El Terrible" was several years past his prime, had absolutely no legs, and still almost did enough to win against Chino (in my opinion, he did win the fight).

This is also the same Maidana who was losing to Victor Ortiz and should have lost to Ortiz had Ortiz not inexplicably quit.

[N51_rob]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Its almost comical at this point. The only people who I've seen that still want to see Pacquiao/Mayweather are Pacquiao fans who are searching for some sort of validation for their guy as he has fallen pack in the P4P discussion, after some tough losses. Floyd and much of the sport of boxing has moved it. The fact that Pacquiao lets Arum who has said time and again he will never negotiate with Mayweather and Golden Boy has taken much of the interest out of this fight.

Floyd made $32 million to fight Marcos Miadina, and $50 million fighting Canelo. He and boxing aren't hurting for this Pacquiao fight at all. Pacquiao made $20 million fighting Bradley and that was only after he agreed to take $6 million less, than he didn from their first fight. He has lost a lot of his drawing power and he himself hasn't even been calling out Floyd anymore.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

This is also the same Maidana who was losing to Victor Ortiz and should have lost to Ortiz had Ortiz not inexplicably quit.

Inexplicably? Are you kidding me? Maidana was brutalizing Ortiz with the right hand especially in the last two rounds. Inexplicably? Did you see those shots Ortiz was taking?

Remember, this Maidana is the same fighter who had a life-and-death struggle with a way-over-the-hill Morales. "El Terrible" was several years past his prime, had absolutely no legs, and still almost did enough to win against Chino (in my opinion, he did win the fight).

Keith Thurman? Are you kidding me? Thurman has raw power and is an interesting prospect but Mayweather would box circles around him.

Thurman is a young natural welterweight with Hearns-like power in both hands. He's quick and can strike at anytime. He's an offensive juggernaut, the likes of which Floyd has never faced. I'm not kidding.

So your point is Maidana isn't that good, so Floyd is slipping, but he couldn't slip against a guy like Thurman. He can only slip against Pac?

[Sgt_Carnage]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Keith Thurman? Are you kidding me? Thurman has raw power and is an interesting prospect but Mayweather would box circles around him.

How can anyone say the Pacquiao fight is no longer relevant? It is not only the only fight that makes sense for Floyd, it is the ONLY fight that makes sense in boxing. Regardless of who is at fault, these two need to resolve differences and make the fight happen. Sure, Pacquiao was knocked out by a punch he did not see coming from JMM. But anyone who is an avid follower of the sport can't say, "Well, because Mayweather dominated Marquez and Marquez knocked out Pacquiao, Pacquiao would get dominated by Mayweather." Styles make fights. Besides, Money fought JMM when he was still a blown up lightweight.

How can someone say that Pacquiao vs. Mayweather isn't a relevant fight when Floyd is busy taking fights against the likes of Maidana, Guerrero, Cotto, etc.? Is Maidana, who lost to Amir Khan and Devon Alexander, a relevant fight? Did anyone going into the fight think Maidana was anywhere near Floyd's caliber?

FM may be the best in boxing, but at least Pacquiao is making fights that make sense. He fights Marquez a third and fourth time because Marquez gives him the closest fights. He fights Bradley, an undefeated and up-and-coming young prospect, who he bests handedly but gets robbed. What does he do then? He has a fourth fight with Marquez, a fight in which he was winning and on the verge of knocking his rival out, when he gets caught with a shot that would short circuit anyone in the sport. After such a brutal knockout, he takes a tuneup fight against a dangerous puncher in Brandon Rios. Then, he goes and avenges the loss to a much improved Bradley.

If you ask me, both Floyd and Pacman have shown signs of slipping, but the difference is Mayweather keeps taking the safe fights. Pacman didn't look like his vintage self versus Bradley a month ago, but Bradley is also a legitimate, world-class fighter. Mayweather didn't look like his usual self last night, but I am not sure Maidana is a world-class fighter.

Oh, stop with this. That guy was tailor made for Manny. He had no business being in the ring with someone of Pacquaios caliber.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Oh, stop with this. That guy was tailor made for Manny. He had no business being in the ring with someone of Pacquaios caliber.

Yeah, really. Many of us saw Rios's defensive prowess* in two fights against Alvarado.

*sarcasm

[redsrule]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Not to mention Pac didn't look amazing in there against Bradley. Bradley just decided to become the Roy Nelson of boxing with those constant looping right hands after he hurt him with one in r2.
I think Pac could beat Mayweather, but Manny's style is not what Maidana used last night. Manny also wouldn't outweigh Mayweather by 20 pounds come fight night which aided Maidana's style.

[TajDeni]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

floyd just might be the best ever. now let me explain my statement.

while the reality of the actual fight was a score of prolly around 8-4 or even maybe 7-5. imo i thought this fight was a blowout with a score of 10-2 or 9-3. imo, mayweather himself, thru his own design, kept/made this fight appear to be much more interesting that it ever truly was.

at $75.00 a pop, mayweather fought the fight he fought for us, the fans.

1. lets examine what mayweather himself said completely after the fight.

paraphrasing: i gave the fans what they wanted to see.... not many of my fans have ever seen me in a brawl style fight before. i am just giving the fans what they want to see..... i coulda fought this fight in the middle of the ring and gave this guy a boxing lesson.

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/10879956/floyd-mayweather-jr-scores-majority-decision-marcos-maidana-welterweight-unification-fight

-- now some folks may believe that maidana himself forced floyd onto the ropes with his aggressive style, and i say nonsense. floyd never even made an attempt to get off the ropes majority of the fight.

floyd has some of the best footwork ever, which includes the side to side shuffle work. maidana never had to work or chase floyd and cut off the ring; floyd allowed himself to be caught along the ropes to make the fight interesting to the fans. to show that he is so much better than everyone else, that he can fight the type of fight that gives his opponent the very best chance to beat him and still win.

and thats exactly what happened here. the compu-box stats reveals the truth of the illusion, a grandmaster boxing wizard put on for us, the fans. that maidana while appearing to do alot of productive work, in reality was throwing a bunch on non-connecting garbage. and because a few of those punches actually got in, was the hook that got majority of folks to buy into the illusion.

-----------

what did canelo say directly after his fight with mayweather?

paraphrasing: i tried to but i couldnt catch him. he was even better than i thought he was...

why couldnt canelo catch him? because mayweather never wanted to be caught by canelo and so he wasnt. instead what mayweather wanted to do was give canelo a boxing tutorial in front of the entire world, and thats exactly what he did.

--------

robert gurerro's dad was talking that nonsense, so floyd wanted to embarrass his son in front of the world. and because thats what floyd wanted to happen, thats exactly what happened.

------------

last saturday against maidana, floyd gave us exactly the fight he wanted us to witness; an exciting brawl style fight. the fight was never close.

and ill take it a step further, imo the illusion/trick hasnt been fully completed yet.

there will most likely be a rematch, because the excite and money will be there. and in this rematch floyd will fight a completely different fight and reveal the truth of the illusion to the world by completely boxing circles around maidana.

then my guess is that after 2 fights against an unorthodox boxer, he will fight pac-man next may 3rd and give him the gotti treatment to prove a point.

---------

floyd mayweather just might be the best ever, because he is like water in the ring. he can take his style and form it to fit your style and beat you at your own gameplan. and all because he simply made a choice to do so. floyd already knows the outcome of these fights before the fight even begins.

i ask you, how can there be a gameplan to beat floyd, when if you observe close enough you will observe that it is his gameplan that is dictating the way the fight is going to play out, not the other fight. the only thing that can beat floyd is a lucky punch caused by floyd's own arrogance/desires to be more than just a boxer, to be an entertainer as well.

if you keep sticking your head in the lion's mouth, 1day it might just close it.

teddy atlas:

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/10879956/floyd-mayweather-jr-scores-majority-decision-marcos-maidana-welterweight-unification-fight

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

You lost me a little when you said the score was probably 7-5 or 8-4, but you thought it was 10-2 or 9-3. I see you have a lot of realities. Just shows you how hard some of those rounds were to score. A lot of Maidana's missed punches were on the ropes with Floyd covering, but some of those punches got through, and Marcos was winning that part of the fight, despite what his connect percentage was.

Yeah, Floyd probably won the fight, but he struggled. In your mind his struggles are part of a "design" to entertain the fans. All due respect, that's a little far fetched, although I was thoroughly entertained and didn't regret the last second $65 "low def" purchase, despite the Broner fight.

Like a champion he gutted this one out, but even had he lost he would still remain an All Time Top Ten Pound for Pounder.

[SPRINGS03]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Keith Thurman? Are you kidding me? Thurman has raw power and is an interesting prospect but Mayweather would box circles around him.

How can anyone say the Pacquiao fight is no longer relevant? It is not only the only fight that makes sense for Floyd, it is the ONLY fight that makes sense in boxing. Regardless of who is at fault, these two need to resolve differences and make the fight happen. Sure, Pacquiao was knocked out by a punch he did not see coming from JMM. But anyone who is an avid follower of the sport can't say, "Well, because Mayweather dominated Marquez and Marquez knocked out Pacquiao, Pacquiao would get dominated by Mayweather." Styles make fights. Besides, Money fought JMM when he was still a blown up lightweight.

How can someone say that Pacquiao vs. Mayweather isn't a relevant fight when Floyd is busy taking fights against the likes of Maidana, Guerrero, Cotto, etc.? Is Maidana, who lost to Amir Khan and Devon Alexander, a relevant fight? Did anyone going into the fight think Maidana was anywhere near Floyd's caliber?

FM may be the best in boxing, but at least Pacquiao is making fights that make sense. He fights Marquez a third and fourth time because Marquez gives him the closest fights. He fights Bradley, an undefeated and up-and-coming young prospect, who he bests handedly but gets robbed. What does he do then? He has a fourth fight with Marquez, a fight in which he was winning and on the verge of knocking his rival out, when he gets caught with a shot that would short circuit anyone in the sport. After such a brutal knockout, he takes a tuneup fight against a dangerous puncher in Brandon Rios. Then, he goes and avenges the loss to a much improved Bradley.

If you ask me, both Floyd and Pacman have shown signs of slipping, but the difference is Mayweather keeps taking the safe fights. Pacman didn't look like his vintage self versus Bradley a month ago, but Bradley is also a legitimate, world-class fighter. Mayweather didn't look like his usual self last night, but I am not sure Maidana is a world-class fighter.

I agree that thurman isn't ready for floyd, people get excited by his power, but his destroying c fighters. And his style isn't really anything that would bother floyd, his height possibly could. But i don't think he's ready. Let's see how he does against a higher level opponent first.

But let's get into this whole "safe" fights thing. That's nonsense. Canelo is a much more dangerous fight than manny's last 3 fights(a middleweight who rehydrates up to have a 15 pound weight advantage and has quick hands and power) and i guarantee manny won't fight him. Also, rios is a blown up light weight, did you really try to make him out to be dangerous? Hell i'd put guerrero ahead of rios. Rios is just known for being able to eat punches and having a bit of power. Guerrero has fought better opponents than rios has. And it doesn't matter that marquez was blown up, because in that fight floyd beat him with speed. As much as marquez complains, don't you think he would of used that as an excuse for his loss? He wants nothing to do with floyd and has said floyd will beat manny. As far as recent opposition, the only solid fight manny has was against bradley. And the fact that he goes to hell and back with an old marquez doesn't look good either. I dunno how you can say he makes fights that make sense. He's had easier fights recently definitely, and it's crazy to try to say floyd takes easy fights and then turn around and defend manny, for taking easy fights lol. Maidana is no bum either, also much better than brandon rios.

[SPRINGS03]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Thurman is a young natural welterweight with Hearns-like power in both hands. He's quick and can strike at anytime. He's an offensive juggernaut, the likes of which Floyd has never faced. I'm not kidding.

So your point is Maidana isn't that good, so Floyd is slipping, but he couldn't slip against a guy like Thurman. He can only slip against Pac?

Let's not get ahead of ourselves with the hearns like power thing though. YEah he has some great power, but again, who has he fought that's at a higher level? Yeah he can strike anytime, against c level guys, what happens when he starts fighting better guys though? That's what i need to see.I'm not sold on him yet. Hell broner looked amazing until he stepped up and fought higher level guys like paulie, and marcos. The difference in class matters, and until he fights someone who's actually a solid fighter(shawn porter hopefully). He's not ready. And the whole, "he's a devastating puncher with quick hands" thing has been said about plenty of floyds opponents. Hell, everyone said all canelo had to do was land one shot for it to be over, and his hands are fast. But the thing is, you have to LAND. And while thurman has shown potential, he hasn't been in there with anyone or been tested. And i honestly think, that while his height could possibly give floyd some trouble(he seems pretty lanky), floyd would neutralize his offense like everyone else. Thurman doesn't go crazy and throw 100 punches each round and keep coming the way maidana did. He is more precise and picks his spots(very well i might add). But against floyd, that will play into his hands because he's giving him time to set up and think, it would be like canelo all over again.

Edit: And in no way am i saying thurman isn't good or anything, the kid is nice, and i actually do like him. But i'm just not sold yet, he has no big fights. He has the attributes to be a force no doubt. But people tend to hype these kids up a little too much too fast. It's just like when floyd fought canelo, i thought that was nice, but i didn't think it would be some kind of close battle like people were saying it would. Canelo is more of a boxer puncher, so it was what i expected. Thruman is also more of a boxer puncher.

[N51_rob]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Thurman hasn't fought a lot of the top guys because he is being managed the right way. Everyone is buzzing about his KO power. Problem for him is that by the time he is "ready" to fight Floyd, Floyd will probably be out of the game. Its a risk for him to fight Floyd (in september this year or may next), but for a lot of those guys that want to fight Floyd the window is closing. Especially if he gives Marcos the re-match. Part of what makes Thurman an interesting prospect for Floyd is the fact that he has holes in his game and is untested at this point. If you look at the 140-154 lbs land scape there are not a lot of attractive matches for Mayweather out there. There are a lot of names, but not a lot of attractive PPV drawing match-ups.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Let's not get ahead of ourselves with the hearns like power thing though. YEah he has some great power, but again, who has he fought that's at a higher level? Yeah he can strike anytime, against c level guys, what happens when he starts fighting better guys though?

I had mentioned this before, but what about his last opponent Julio Diaz? In Diaz's last three fights before Thurman he lost a very close decision to Amir Khan, drew with Shawn Porter, and then was competitive with Porter in their rematch. Thurman utterly destroys him.

Still, I admit we need a little more data on Keith, but I think this kid is something special. One problem he may have is finding an opponent, but him versus Shawn Porter on a possible Floyd-Maidana rematch would be nice.

[TajDeni]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

You lost me a little when you said the score was probably 7-5 or 8-4, but you thought it was 10-2 or 9-3. I see you have a lot of realities. Just shows you how hard some of those rounds were to score. A lot of Maidana's missed punches were on the ropes with Floyd covering, but some of those punches got through, and Marcos was winning that part of the fight, despite what his connect percentage was.

Yeah, Floyd probably won the fight, but he struggled. In your mind his struggles are part of a "design" to entertain the fans. All due respect, that's a little far fetched, although I was thoroughly entertained and didn't regret the last second $65 "low def" purchase, despite the Broner fight.

Like a champion he gutted this one out, but even had he lost he would still remain an All Time Top Ten Pound for Pounder.

what i was trying to say but maybe not clearly, is that maidana prolly did actually win 2 out of the 1st 4 rounds. any other rounds that anyone wants to give him was simply because floyd wanted to make the fight way more interesting than it ever had to be and thus allowed maidana to steal a few rounds or 2 later in the fight.

so to me the true score was something like 8-4 or even 7-5, because thats the reality of what happened.

but i felt that maidana only truly won 2 or 3 off his own merits. and the rest of the rounds he stole or appeared to steal were purely the an illusion that floyd wanted the world to see. and thats where the 10-2 or 9-3 came in.

hopefully this clears my post up a bit...