Boxing Off-Topic

[N51_rob]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

If you're fighting for the middleweight championship the catch weight should be 160. If your fighting for the super middleweight title the catch weight should be 168, etc., etc.



I have no problem with any non title catch weight fight. Both parties agree to it, then that's that.

Agree 100% didn't know cotto was talking about a title fight.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Agree 100% didn't know cotto was talking about a title fight.

Yeah, this middleweight title fight was 157, and when he challenged for Sergio's title it was 159.

Then he tells Kellerman he's not really a middleweight, but has this to say about future defenses. (quote below before Geale fight)

“I had to do (a catchweight) at this particular time and anyone who wants to fight me must accept a catchweight or otherwise there is no fight,”


Pretty arrogant, but does the public really have much respect for the major boxing organizations, particularly the WBC? They made Tyson their number one contender after his release from prison. Or rather Don King made Tyson the WBC's one contender.

EDIT: Nothing to do with Tyson's conviction. Based on the evidence, I , like many others, thought he should have been acquitted. It's the fact that the WBC made him the #1 after zero fights in four years.

[allBthere]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

it's bad enough that every weight class has a "junior" and "super" in between them. there should be no need for catchweights. middleweight is 155-160....therefore it should be up to the fighter to choose the weight he fights at as long as he weighs in anywhere between 155-160. a weight division is what it is, and catchweight fights need to stop.....just my opinion

I agree with this, in boxing catchweights should be banned, they simiply fall in one of the many weight categories...

for the record I don't have a problem with the weight categories - they could lose a few, but where I think they would benefit is at the light heavyweight level.

175lbs is light heavyweight, cruiser is under 200 and heavy is anything over 201 and over (up to 260?) then it's super if I remember correctly.

So you have all the 5 pound increments, then in a zone where in modern times between 175-200 is a very popular weight category for athletes to be in - just based on the average build of a modern male.

I would be ok with taking away a couple on the very light side, adding a 185 pound class and doing away with catchweights.

We don't need every one of these imo: 112,115,120,125,130,135

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Can someone explain to me how boxing promoters make money? Take the Guerrero/Martinez fight this weekend:

The total payout for all fighters on the card was $1,450,000 (Guerrero made 1 mil).

There appeared to be no more than 2,000 people at the fight and a good deal of those were comped.

Haymon/PBC still appears to have trouble getting advertisers because the majority of advertisements were Corona ads, ads for future PBC fights and ads for NBC programming.

So Haymon isnt making money from ads. He isnt making money from ticket sales or the gate. He isnt making money from TV rights because he buying time on NBC.

So how is he making any money from PBC? This isnt the only PBC fight that has had this issue. Stevenson/Bika and Khan/Algeri had plenty of comped tickets.

[N51_rob]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Can someone explain to me how boxing promoters make money? Take the Guerrero/Martinez fight this weekend:

The total payout for all fighters on the card was $1,450,000 (Guerrero made 1 mil).

There appeared to be no more than 2,000 people at the fight and a good deal of those were comped.

Haymon/PBC still appears to have trouble getting advertisers because the majority of advertisements were Corona ads, ads for future PBC fights and ads for NBC programming.

So Haymon isnt making money from ads. He isnt making money from ticket sales or the gate. He isnt making money from TV rights because he buying time on NBC.

So how is he making any money from PBC? This isnt the only PBC fight that has had this issue. Stevenson/Bika and Khan/Algeri had plenty of comped tickets.

They make money from PPVs and Satruday Nights on Showtime and HBO. These Sunday-Friday fights aren't about making money they are about building up a fighter. In the case of PBC, its about building the brand. Haymon will eventually hope to do the kind of TV numbers that will start to payout, but I think he went into this venture knowing that year 1+ was about building the brand and not making money. If by year two or three he isn't seeing a return on the investment he will scuttle PBC and looks for soemthing like Friday Night Fights on one of the sports channels exclusivly.

I think the De Le Hoya law suit may also be keeping advertisers away.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Can someone explain to me how boxing promoters make money? Take the Guerrero/Martinez fight this weekend:

The total payout for all fighters on the card was $1,450,000 (Guerrero made 1 mil).

There appeared to be no more than 2,000 people at the fight and a good deal of those were comped.

Haymon/PBC still appears to have trouble getting advertisers because the majority of advertisements were Corona ads, ads for future PBC fights and ads for NBC programming.

So Haymon isnt making money from ads. He isnt making money from ticket sales or the gate. He isnt making money from TV rights because he buying time on NBC.

So how is he making any money from PBC? This isnt the only PBC fight that has had this issue. Stevenson/Bika and Khan/Algeri had plenty of comped tickets.

My head is swimming trying to figure that out. In March on Spike, Berto-Lopez alone cost $1 1/4 million in purses and the co-feature cost another $625,000. Almost $1.9 million in purses for a Spike televised boxing match????

They make money from PPVs and Satruday Nights on Showtime and HBO. These Sunday-Friday fights aren't about making money they are about building up a fighter. In the case of PBC, its about building the brand. Haymon will eventually hope to do the kind of TV numbers that will start to payout, but I think he went into this venture knowing that year 1+ was about building the brand and not making money. If by year two or three he isn't seeing a return on the investment he will scuttle PBC and looks for soemthing like Friday Night Fights on one of the sports channels exclusivly.

I think the De Le Hoya law suit may also be keeping advertisers away.

It's a plan, but a risky one considering there aren't many fighters who establish themselves as viable in the American PPV market. You have Floyd-Pac and then Cotto-Canelo . Even with Alvarez's fanatic Mexican fan base he hasn't killed it on PPV. Cotto-Martinez slightly underperformed Canelo's last two PPV fights.

Why did they give Guerrero $1 million to fight a C fighter? They haven't realized he'll never be a PPV golden goose?

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

They make money from PPVs and Satruday Nights on Showtime and HBO. These Sunday-Friday fights aren't about making money they are about building up a fighter. In the case of PBC, its about building the brand. Haymon will eventually hope to do the kind of TV numbers that will start to payout, but I think he went into this venture knowing that year 1+ was about building the brand and not making money. If by year two or three he isn't seeing a return on the investment he will scuttle PBC and looks for soemthing like Friday Night Fights on one of the sports channels exclusivly.

I think the De Le Hoya law suit may also be keeping advertisers away.

Is PPV even that lucrative for boxing anymore? Look at this year. We have the Mayweather/Pac fight which was huge. We have Canelo/Cotto and probably Mayweather/Khan. 3 PPV level fights seems kinda low.

As for Haymon, I cant see him making it into year 2 at this point unless he goes exclusive and a network agrees to pay him for the fights. No advertiser growth even though he's doing solid ratings. The fights he's putting on are decent but not must see fights. Plus PBC is cannablizing his Showtime relationship.

We are 6 months into the year and he's put on 3 fights on Showtime (Wilder/Stiverne, Gonzalez/Russell and the Wilder fight this weekend). With the exception of the first Wilder fight, Showtime isnt paying big money for the rest of those fights.

[Mo]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Can someone explain to me how boxing promoters make money?

They steal.

[Review]

Boxing Off-Topic

Cotto vs Canelo is a fight i'm definitely looking forward to! for what it's worth, EVERY fighter should have a long pause when asked about fighting GGG!

Looking forward to that fight as well. A great 50-50 fight. Let the best man win. I could care less about GGG unless he fights someone like Froch or Ward. The MW division is so weak right now.


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[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Looking forward to that fight as well. A great 50-50 fight. Let the best man win. I could care less about GGG unless he fights someone like Froch or Ward. The MW division is so weak right now.

Last I checked Cotto is the lineal MIDDLEWEIGHT champion, but GGG has to go UP in weight because Miguel is too scared to fight him.

Frosh talked about GGG or retirement, but it looks like he's choosing retirement over a probable $10+ million payday.

I wonder if Ward will fight GGG at 164-165 in a non title?

[redsrule]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Ward would fight GGG. GGG doesn't want Ward, he's aiming higher name value wise, although Ward > Cotto and Canelo, assuming he hasn't lost anything in this last hiatus.

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[Review]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Last I checked Cotto is the lineal MIDDLEWEIGHT champion, but GGG has to go UP in weight because Miguel is too scared to fight him.



Frosh talked about GGG or retirement, but it looks like he's choosing retirement over a probable $10+ million payday.



I wonder if Ward will fight GGG at 164-165 in a non title?

Cotto is a junior middleweight that started at 140 pounds! He's not a true middleweight even though he holds a belt in that class. I won't knock him if he doesn't fight GGG. Geale had like 25 + pounds on him when they stepped. Into the ring. Let's see GGG go up in weight and fight naturally bigger guys.


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[allBthere]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Is PPV even that lucrative for boxing anymore? Look at this year. We have the Mayweather/Pac fight which was huge. We have Canelo/Cotto and probably Mayweather/Khan. 3 PPV level fights seems kinda low.

As for Haymon, I cant see him making it into year 2 at this point unless he goes exclusive and a network agrees to pay him for the fights. No advertiser growth even though he's doing solid ratings. The fights he's putting on are decent but not must see fights. Plus PBC is cannablizing his Showtime relationship.

We are 6 months into the year and he's put on 3 fights on Showtime (Wilder/Stiverne, Gonzalez/Russell and the Wilder fight this weekend). With the exception of the first Wilder fight, Showtime isnt paying big money for the rest of those fights.

This is what I was asking you a couple of months ago. At the time the general thought seemed to be get the ratings, that's all the advertisers care about and they will come. Now we've seen steady ratings and no one is biting - so the real question becomes - why don't the advertisers want to get involved? And why don't the TV executives want to pay even when the numbers are solid and at times REALLY good?

As a TV producer, it's just so frustrating to see - but at the same time, this year will be the most boxing I've seen in a year in my entire life. 2015 is massive for the sport, yet it doesn't seem to make any difference.

The boxing promoter I know doesn't make money. He either makes a little, loses a little or breaks even - he's selling tickets in a 5k seat arena as well as floor seats. His purses are usually not his biggest worry with the exception of the november show where there was the WBA cruiser belt on the line.

It would be interesting to look into the advertisers for sky sports in Europe. I'm coming to understand it's not just numbers for eyeballs, it's the content and the perceived value of WHO is watching - I can see that on youtube. I have videos with a bunch of views but there is no payout - I set it up just for fun in case one took off and there was a chance to make money - I have videos that aren't about boxing and I can see the $ per click is much higher for some reason, even though the viewers are still likely males 18-50
- I did an experiment where I'm going to post a 5min cooking video (hobby of mine) just to see the difference in $ per click.

My gut feeling is that advertisers and TV execs have been beaten down with 'boxing is dead' they believe it, they think this is a flash in the pan and want nothing to do with it.

So my fear is when everyone gives up because they've lost too much money, it will be nothing but hockey, and endless poker on my TV from here to eternity. That sad thing to me is that this boxing thing really CAN work on TV and the numbers are showing that - but everybody is 'shut off' to really getting on board.

my 2c

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Cotto is a junior middleweight that started at 140 pounds! He's not a true middleweight even though he holds a belt in that class. I won't knock him if he doesn't fight GGG. Geale had like 25 + pounds on him when they stepped. Into the ring. Let's see GGG go up in weight and fight naturally bigger guys.

Come on. They served up a slow, weight drained punching bag for Cotto by stipulating at 157.

Duran was a legend at lightweight, beat one of the greats at welter and gave Hagler a good fight at 160 for the championship.

Oscar won super featherweight and lightweight titles and fought Hopkins for the middleweight championship.

But more importantly Cotto is the MIDDLEWEIGHT champ and he's avoiding the best middleweight and insisting on catchweights for all his 160 fights.

Let's see GGG go up in weight and fight naturally bigger guys.

So what bigger guys did Cotto beat at 160? An injury riddled Sergio Martinez who started out at welter and is a natural 154 pounder and a famished, no punch Geale who had to kill himself to get to 157.

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

This is what I was asking you a couple of months ago. At the time the general thought seemed to be get the ratings, that's all the advertisers care about and they will come. Now we've seen steady ratings and no one is biting - so the real question becomes - why don't the advertisers want to get involved? And why don't the TV executives want to pay even when the numbers are solid and at times REALLY good?

As a TV producer, it's just so frustrating to see - but at the same time, this year will be the most boxing I've seen in a year in my entire life. 2015 is massive for the sport, yet it doesn't seem to make any difference.

The boxing promoter I know doesn't make money. He either makes a little, loses a little or breaks even - he's selling tickets in a 5k seat arena as well as floor seats. His purses are usually not his biggest worry with the exception of the november show where there was the WBA cruiser belt on the line.

It would be interesting to look into the advertisers for sky sports in Europe. I'm coming to understand it's not just numbers for eyeballs, it's the content and the perceived value of WHO is watching - I can see that on youtube. I have videos with a bunch of views but there is no payout - I set it up just for fun in case one took off and there was a chance to make money - I have videos that aren't about boxing and I can see the $ per click is much higher for some reason, even though the viewers are still likely males 18-50
- I did an experiment where I'm going to post a 5min cooking video (hobby of mine) just to see the difference in $ per click.

My gut feeling is that advertisers and TV execs have been beaten down with 'boxing is dead' they believe it, they think this is a flash in the pan and want nothing to do with it.

So my fear is when everyone gives up because they've lost too much money, it will be nothing but hockey, and endless poker on my TV from here to eternity. That sad thing to me is that this boxing thing really CAN work on TV and the numbers are showing that - but everybody is 'shut off' to really getting on board.

my 2c

I cant figure it out either. I need to do a deep dive into the ratings because there is no reason why the UFC is flush with advertisers and PBC has really 1 (Corona) when they are doing similar numbers.

Part of it could be the whole "boxing is dead" thing but the numbers dont support that. I sincerely thought that after a few cards with good numbers that the advertisers would start coming but that doesnt seem to be the case.