Re: EA UFC 3 Random Thoughts Thread
I'm a big fan of the addition for:
Having the clinch be easy to get into and easy to get out of, like most fights in. Like Martial mentioned, even in boxing fights where it is contested on the feet; if the boxers get too close to each other a clinch is almost always initiated.
And if two good players in the clinch WANT to be there, it'll look more like:
Killing the footwork of a fighter after about two leg rocks from leg kicks/reduction of leg health to 40%/three checks. (I'd say two but the game babies players with regards to checking kicks, so for balancing purposes, three works.)
(Aldo broke his foot here because Jung moved into it with the check, which led to Aldo having to grapple more afterwards for the rest of the fight)
And of course, some fighters aren't as good as checking leg kicks as others. Outside of a poorly set up kick from Pettis, this is how it usually looks when Diaz tries to check kicks.
(exaggerated example but usually is prone to leg kicks)
Skilled timing on a leg kick against a jab + other examples:
Properly set up kicks + punishing mistimed checks from Aldo, also showing its harder to defend kicks against a solid Practitioner when going backwards, not just simply high low high low blocking, like in game :
Getting rocked affecting how well your fighter fights for the rest of the round/fight, your recovery being affected by the toughness/heart stat. Should affect the block as well.
(I.e. for example, Aldo vs Chad Mendes 2, multiple stuns on both sides, knockdowns a piece, Holloway vs Aldo, any Darren Elkins fight (lol), Cejudo coming back from a bad round one against Moraes to overwhelming him with pressure in the next round, Whittaker vs Romero 2, rounds 3 + 5, Rivera getting dropped twice against Yan in rounds he was winning, and then winning Round 3, Lewis vs Volkov, vs say, Stefan Struve getting caught with a huge overhand, Lesnar taking knees from Overeem, Tai Tuivasa getting manhandled on the ground, Overeem eating any crazy big shot usually leads to him getting finished,
Whittaker getting hit by a DEVASTATING counter shot by Adesanya in the first round, leading to his finish in Round 2, Ngannou losing an immense amount of energy/stamina getting outgrappled by Stipe.
Body health events are tricky, there are some fights where it's pretty much a GG no Re from there, but the threat of being punished for being overzealous is there as well. I'd say the body health event, if you survive it, should affect your grappling + emphasize HEAVY for defending your body for the rest of the fight.
Dominating position + getting takedowns being skilled based, and not getting subs due to a minigame, but more so due to your understanding of positioning and capitalizing on an error from your opponent.
Everything always needs improvement, and like eye pokes and genital strikes are frowned upon in MMA, we also have to make sure game wise that things won't be exploitable and that there is going to be a meaningful level of skill that separates players who utilize their fighters best attributes extremely well vs somebody who's simply pressing square, square, square, triangle.
And definitely with more realism that can be done.
My issue is that the game allows for an insane amount of health events in general, makes it possible.
Not all damaging strikes are perfect counter-hits, sometimes you just pummel someone and rock them many, many times without peak vulnerability. Sometimes it is indeed a counter, or a bunch of counters, just not ones that force such an extreme level of vulnerability as in your video and they keep plodding forward without any signs that their vitals are messed up, i.e. something significant has happened. The health event in UFC is very much like a goal in FIFA — a point on the board and you get a ****load of points (whereas in real life that's rarely the case, especially in MMA where there are stoppages). And you often have to hurt guys so many times that it takes you completely out of the moment.
Obviously if one does master counter striking like you have you'll be finishing fights much faster. However, my argument is not that you can't do it under any circumstances whatsoever, it's more about that having to be a much bigger possibility in circumstances different than leaning into strikes or Conor McGregor-like precision counter-striking.
Take a heavyweight fight for example. It's blink and you'll miss it with those guys. They all run the risk of getting slept in a flash. So you don't stand and trade with Ngannou, no matter how good of a striker you are (in this case — player). Instead, you look to tie him up, stay out of range, etc, at all costs. But never exchange. Catch my drift? There's too much room for error currently. Whereas right now you, MartialMind, etc. can strike with Ngannou using DC or probably even Oleinik with tremendous success, just because you, the players, are great at striking.
Let's encourage people to really care about what each fighter brings to the table is what I'm saying. That includes stamina too. I'm pretty sure you get what I'm saying. Oh, and I very much appreciate the skills that you guys possess, I really do! The game has certain mechanics and properties, whether I like them or not, and you've mastered them. I just hope those change in the future and I'm sure if they did you'd be able to adapt just as well.
And boy, do I get in a posting mood whenever this is brought up
Edit: oh, and even though I've been campaigning for more realism for ages now, I do realise it's a game and obviously player skill should matter a bunch. I just think there's still so much room for such changes to be made before you could say "okay, any more of that kind of realism and the game won't work". So yeah, I just think there's a lot that can be done still.
Not all damaging strikes are perfect counter-hits, sometimes you just pummel someone and rock them many, many times without peak vulnerability. Sometimes it is indeed a counter, or a bunch of counters, just not ones that force such an extreme level of vulnerability as in your video and they keep plodding forward without any signs that their vitals are messed up, i.e. something significant has happened. The health event in UFC is very much like a goal in FIFA — a point on the board and you get a ****load of points (whereas in real life that's rarely the case, especially in MMA where there are stoppages). And you often have to hurt guys so many times that it takes you completely out of the moment.
Obviously if one does master counter striking like you have you'll be finishing fights much faster. However, my argument is not that you can't do it under any circumstances whatsoever, it's more about that having to be a much bigger possibility in circumstances different than leaning into strikes or Conor McGregor-like precision counter-striking.
Take a heavyweight fight for example. It's blink and you'll miss it with those guys. They all run the risk of getting slept in a flash. So you don't stand and trade with Ngannou, no matter how good of a striker you are (in this case — player). Instead, you look to tie him up, stay out of range, etc, at all costs. But never exchange. Catch my drift? There's too much room for error currently. Whereas right now you, MartialMind, etc. can strike with Ngannou using DC or probably even Oleinik with tremendous success, just because you, the players, are great at striking.
Let's encourage people to really care about what each fighter brings to the table is what I'm saying. That includes stamina too. I'm pretty sure you get what I'm saying. Oh, and I very much appreciate the skills that you guys possess, I really do! The game has certain mechanics and properties, whether I like them or not, and you've mastered them. I just hope those change in the future and I'm sure if they did you'd be able to adapt just as well.
And boy, do I get in a posting mood whenever this is brought up
Edit: oh, and even though I've been campaigning for more realism for ages now, I do realise it's a game and obviously player skill should matter a bunch. I just think there's still so much room for such changes to be made before you could say "okay, any more of that kind of realism and the game won't work". So yeah, I just think there's a lot that can be done still.
Having the clinch be easy to get into and easy to get out of, like most fights in. Like Martial mentioned, even in boxing fights where it is contested on the feet; if the boxers get too close to each other a clinch is almost always initiated.
And if two good players in the clinch WANT to be there, it'll look more like:
Killing the footwork of a fighter after about two leg rocks from leg kicks/reduction of leg health to 40%/three checks. (I'd say two but the game babies players with regards to checking kicks, so for balancing purposes, three works.)
(Aldo broke his foot here because Jung moved into it with the check, which led to Aldo having to grapple more afterwards for the rest of the fight)And of course, some fighters aren't as good as checking leg kicks as others. Outside of a poorly set up kick from Pettis, this is how it usually looks when Diaz tries to check kicks.
(exaggerated example but usually is prone to leg kicks)Skilled timing on a leg kick against a jab + other examples:
Properly set up kicks + punishing mistimed checks from Aldo, also showing its harder to defend kicks against a solid Practitioner when going backwards, not just simply high low high low blocking, like in game :
Getting rocked affecting how well your fighter fights for the rest of the round/fight, your recovery being affected by the toughness/heart stat. Should affect the block as well.
(I.e. for example, Aldo vs Chad Mendes 2, multiple stuns on both sides, knockdowns a piece, Holloway vs Aldo, any Darren Elkins fight (lol), Cejudo coming back from a bad round one against Moraes to overwhelming him with pressure in the next round, Whittaker vs Romero 2, rounds 3 + 5, Rivera getting dropped twice against Yan in rounds he was winning, and then winning Round 3, Lewis vs Volkov, vs say, Stefan Struve getting caught with a huge overhand, Lesnar taking knees from Overeem, Tai Tuivasa getting manhandled on the ground, Overeem eating any crazy big shot usually leads to him getting finished,
Whittaker getting hit by a DEVASTATING counter shot by Adesanya in the first round, leading to his finish in Round 2, Ngannou losing an immense amount of energy/stamina getting outgrappled by Stipe.
Body health events are tricky, there are some fights where it's pretty much a GG no Re from there, but the threat of being punished for being overzealous is there as well. I'd say the body health event, if you survive it, should affect your grappling + emphasize HEAVY for defending your body for the rest of the fight.
Dominating position + getting takedowns being skilled based, and not getting subs due to a minigame, but more so due to your understanding of positioning and capitalizing on an error from your opponent.
Everything always needs improvement, and like eye pokes and genital strikes are frowned upon in MMA, we also have to make sure game wise that things won't be exploitable and that there is going to be a meaningful level of skill that separates players who utilize their fighters best attributes extremely well vs somebody who's simply pressing square, square, square, triangle.
And definitely with more realism that can be done.
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