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Re: MMA Off-Topic
(Moved from the EA UFC3 Board)
Man, I was just about to go to sleep.
a USADA waiver given by the UFC.
“UFC may grant an exemption to the four-month written notice rule in exceptional circumstances or where the strict application of that rule would be manifestly unfair to an Athlete,”
And the fact that they gave HIM a waiver is a *** **** joke.
That's such a cop out and I can't believe that has become the narrative. People say stuff pre-fight all the time, to hype stuff up. Say I have a fight against Mike Tyson: "mother****er's prolly gonna bite my ear off" at no point am I suggesting I'm cool with that, or that if he bite my ear off it's "tough luck" for me. We have rules for a reason. If I say team B are cheaters I shouldn't be looked down upon when they indeed get caught cheating, they should be.
You mean No-Contest, right? Lesnar never technically beat Hunt.
Well don't tell USADA and the UFC. I mean if "everyone" knew, but not USADA and the UFC, that makes them a joke. But if they knew, and did nothing that makes the whole collaboration corrupt.
Imagine if the UFC thought Brock Lesnar was probably cheating, and still tried to pass it under USADA's radar.... That would be almost like a damn joke......
I still get to be pissed off at Mike Tyson when he bites off my ear even if i get my payday. It's against the rules, if i say you're gonna cheat and you still cheat.... guess what? I get to be extra pissed off.
Or hey, maybe, just maybe Mark Hunt was talking some ****, and actually, you know, trusting that USADA had their **** covered like they're supposed to. Trusting that if Brock was indeed juicing they'd spot it..... like at least a few hours BEFORE the effing fight.
And pre USADA maybe Mark could have gotten something for old man inflammation... You know, a little stronger than a vitamin pill. Maybe DC could have gotten something for his joints too. Instead of having these old war horses just decay because they can't get basic treatment we give to civilians.
And I'm sure he'll fight for the belt, win or lose, pop for something, "retire", with a wink and a smile, ride off into the sunset on his horse made of money, and we get to pretend USADA+UFC is a match made in heaven.Last edited by MacGowan; 09-03-2018, 06:14 PM.Comment
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Re: MMA Off-Topic
Macgowan,
I like you man but your arguments on this one are all over the place:
- I never made an argument saying whether Lesnar should or shouldnt have received a waiver. My argument was that Hunt knew months before the fight Lesnar was getting a waiver. ****, I knew the week after they announced the fighter Lesnar was getting a waiver.
My point is if you know he's getting a waiver, you know there is a chance that he might have used PEDs during training or before the fight was announced. Hunt knew that but he didnt mind taking that chance when he thought he was going to win and new he was getting PPV points. If Hunt turned that fight down because of the waiver, the UFC wouldve just found a HW to take his place. Hunt knew that, didnt want to miss out on a pay day and got mad after Brock dominated him. So I dont feel that sorry for him.
Notice that he wasnt as vocal about PED use when Mir popped after Hunt beat him or the YEARS he fought roid monsters in Pride.
- You are misunderstanding. Lesnar is a WWE wrestler. WWE has a notoriously bad PEDs program. Most assume that many Wrestlers (including Lesnar) are on some form of PEDs when participating in WWE. When Brock signed on for UFC 200, many (including myself) assumed he would not have enough time to cycle off what he was likely taking or that because of the waiver and the short period of time between when they announced the fight and the actual fight (4 weeks), that he wouldnt really try to cycle off given that drug testing takes weeks. Hunt knew that. He knew the chance he was taking. He was fine with that because he was getting PPV points on one of the biggest cards of all time.
- You also dont seem to understand completely how USADA works. They are a testing body. They actually did their job. The waiver didnt mean Brock didnt get tested before the fight. He did. Thats how they caught him. He took a test on June 28. USADA's tests typically take 2-3 weeks for results to come back from the lab given the number of UFC fighters they are constantly testing.
UFC 200 was on July 9 which was 12 days after the Lesnar test.
So you may say "What a coincidence that the test results came days after the fight" or "Why didnt USADA try to fast track the process so that Hunt wouldve known about the test failure before the fight?"
Well, you may remember another big fighter found out about a failed drug test that same card....Jon Jones. Now Jones failed a test on June 16. 12 days before Lesnar's failed test. When was Jones notified of the failed test......July 6 which is 3 weeks after he took the test.
The process takes a while and Hunt had the bad luck of finding out about the failed test after the fight.
- Finally, dont put words in my mouth. I dont think USADA and the UFC are a match made in heaven. I'm just old enough and have been following the sport enough to know what it was like pre USADA and it was worse. **** as recent as 5 years ago, most states didnt have random testing. Fighters were using PEDs and just cycling off of them weeks before the fight so that they wouldnt fail.
That part of the reason why you see promotions like Bellator avoid states that do random testing because they dont really care if their fighters are using. They care if they get caught because that cancels fights.
Could USADA improve? Hell yeah. Their arbitration system is unfair as hell to lower and mid-level UFC fighters because of its cost. That forces fighters who arent rich to accept punishments simply because they cant afford to fight it. Their testing time needs to be approved. They have already gotten rid of the waivers. Their should be more consistency in their punishments.
USADA is still necessary if you want a clean sport or as close as we will ever get to one.Last edited by aholbert32; 09-03-2018, 10:02 PM.Comment
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Re: MMA Off-Topic
This post LOOKS long, but it's basically me quoting the last two posts. I'll back down now, and hopefully other people can chime in too.
Thank you, Holbert. I like you too.
I never said you did. And I answered to that last part here:
and here:
You see I'm not simply rebuking your arguments, I'm primarily laying forth a series of issues I have with the USADA-UFC collaboration. to substantiate my claim that it's a "joke".
already answered this:
What is this? the rules are rules. Not only did they not pop him before the fight, not only did he get to keep the money, not only did they sign a waiver for him (who the ef does that anyways? "USADA! for everyone! except Brock Lesnar.... cuz we all know he's cheating"), not only is he getting a *** **** title shot on return!!!!, but we are supposed to give Mark Hunt crap for complaining? I'm not outta order, Holbert, this whole courtroom's outta order!
Of course not, cuz he murked Mir. Also maybe he was hoping USADA was finally gonna clean up the sport, only to see them flag Brock Lesnar AFTER he crushed Mark's face.
Like a chalkboard to my heart.
I answered this one too:
I was quick to rephrase and clarify my statement early on. But let me do it again. It is the COLLABORATION I have an issue with.
I know.
you mean the UFC would've known about it and shut the whole fight down.
Firstly, Jones was then also caught for Turinabol AFTER the fight with DC. those two times the media have had criticism on USADA for not being able to catch them before the fight.
"bad luck" Mark... Now let's give Brock Lesnar a title fight! He beat.... nobody....
when I said "We" I hope nobody here thought that I was referring specifically to you.
And what's wrong with Bellator? are we tearing our hairs out because of the savagery? Or are less fights falling out, and fighters are able to tend to injuries better? While UFC has Light-heavyweights miss weight and crush someone's face at Welterweight, but hey the sport is now "clean" (no, i did not say that you personally said that)
Well I'm glad we agree on that point.
I'm good, Bellator seem to be doing alright.Last edited by MacGowan; 09-04-2018, 02:07 PM.Comment
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Re: MMA Off-Topic
BJ Penn vs Ryan Hall is such a weird fight.
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Re: MMA Off-Topic
It's crazy just a few days before I found out about this fight I was hoping to see Ryan Hall fight again. But against BJ Penn? I honestly don't want to see BJ fight again, he's a legend and should just stay retired.Comment
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Re: MMA Off-Topic
What a **** card coming up. Does the UFC hate Brazil now?
- Smilin' Sam vs Lil' Nog is an interesting, weird fight.
- Big break coming up for Eryk Anders, let's see if he has what it takes.
- Charles Oliveira by submission?
- Trinaldo back after his dec. loss against James Vick.
- Hector Lombard coming back after that DQ (One I think was unfair).Comment
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Re: MMA Off-Topic
Jon Jones eligible to return week before MSG show after snitching. GOAT.
"Prior to the hearing, USADA determined that a 30-month reduction in the otherwise applicable period of ineligibility was appropriate under the rules based on Jones’ delivery of substantial assistance."
Another quote:
Jones' 15 months is based on a 30 month reduction for evidently turning in another fighter and/or coach and/or supplier to USADA, along with a small 3 month reduction based on the circumstances of his failed test in general.
Award was by arbitrator Richard McLaren.
This is, to my knowledge, the first time any UFC fighter has chosen to avail themselves of section 10.6.1 and turn "states evidence" to reduce their suspension. It's a very substantial reduction as well, so I doubt this is just a case of giving a name, it'll be more than that.Last edited by redsox4evur; 09-19-2018, 08:15 PM.Comment
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Re: MMA Off-Topic
Jones vs DC part 3. Make it happen.Comment
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Re: MMA Off-Topic
30 month reduction? USADA has been a joke.Comment
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Mets/Giants/Knicks/Rangers/Manchester United/Notre Dame Football
Never let fear determine who you are. Never let where you came from determine where you are going.Comment
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Re: MMA Off-Topic
As part of Jones' deal, he snitched on some other fighter who he knows used PEDs.Comment
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Re: MMA Off-Topic
Hopefully DC tells him to get lost and has to wait until DC retires We know Jones likes to tell on people. I wonder if it included his brothers? Everyone at the gym should refuse to train with him there. Nothing will happen and he won't learn anything. I just can't believe they allow arbitration when there is a failed test. I don't care if it was a tainted supplement. There is an approved list by USADA and Jones can afford them, so if there is a failed test, he cheated. At this point, they might as well stop testing as there are rules for the nobodies and rules for the money makers.
Also still using cocaine before and after the fight.
I'm not buying the fight, spending any money, and doubt I'll even watch his fight. I hope the crowd is relentless.
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Re: MMA Off-Topic
If I'm any fighter in the UFC who has been suspended, i immediately break that suspension and fight outside the US and tell the UFC to go away or pay me for 3 fights a year and win bonus.
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Re: MMA Off-Topic
I been telling ya'll mother****ers. MMA is big business now. Boxing here we come.
"USADA in its sole discretion may suspend all or part of the period of Ineligibility and other Consequences imposed in an individual case in which it has results management authority where the Athlete or other Person has provided Substantial Assistance to USADA or another Anti-Doping Organization, criminal authority or professional disciplinary body which results in: (i) USADA or another Anti-Doping Organization discovering or bringing forward an Anti-Doping Policy Violation by another Person and the information provided by the Person providing Substantial Assistance is made available to USADA, or (ii) which results in a criminal or disciplinary body discovering or bringing forward a criminal offense or the breach of professional rules committed by another Person and the information provided by the Person providing Substantial Assistance is made available to USADA. The extent to which the otherwise applicable period of Ineligibility and other Consequences imposed may be suspended shall be based on the seriousness of the Anti-Doping Policy Violation committed by the Athlete or other Person and the significance of the Substantial Assistance provided by the Athlete or other Person to the effort to eliminate doping in sport.
If the Athlete or other Person fails to continue to cooperate and to provide the complete and credible Substantial Assistance upon which a suspension of the period of Ineligibility or other Consequences was based, USADA shall reinstate the original period of Ineligibility and other Consequences."
"What this means is that Jones has been providing USADA with information that will lead to either USADA sanctioning individuals, or criminal investigations into individuals. His 30 month reduction is very significant, over 50% of his total suspension length. For comparison, a recent reduction for the same reason in weightlifting saw USADA give a reduction of 24 months on a 48-month suspension, which would imply Jones’ information is significant, as he received a greater reduction."
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