MMA Off-Topic

[redsrule]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

When was Lima a top 10 ww? I haven't seen any publication (espn, sherdog) rate him that high. I like Lima and used to follow him in canada but he was never top 10

Karl and Andrey are excellent strikers but have zero takedown defense and were perfectly suited for Askren.

There are not 10 better welterweights in the world than Douglas Lima right now. He brutally finished Ben Saunders twice, KO'd Rick Hawn who is a good fighter, and is on a 14-1 run. Ben Askren beat him with ease.

I'm not saying Askren shouldn't be in the UFC because he should but ranking him in the top 5 is another case of giving a guy too much credit for fighting people outside of the UFC.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I completely disagree with that. I am normally a guy that rates guys that fight outside of the UFC lower than other people because they normally fight lesser competition (Like I've thought Shinya Aoki has been massively overrated his whole career) but Carlos Condit is ranked #5 in the world. Carlos Condit has a huge wrestling deficiency and Ben Askren would take advantage of that just like everyone else that beat him did.
Robbie Lawler has had a huge career resurgence but he has been outwrestled a bunch of times in his career.
You can say those were easy style matchups for Askren but I look at the rankings at WW and a lot of guys in the top 10 would be as well.

The only thing I can say we don't really know is how good Askren's chin is, but he took a huge upkick in one of his earlier Bellator fights iirc and was fine so I think it's probably pretty good.

[p_rushing]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

He isn't one dimensional any more, he has actually been finishing guys. I wouldn't call him great, but his other skills have improved a lot. I would like to see him go to RFA or WOSF, something that is on TV and get 2 fights. Show he can still finish better fighters and then the UFC will have to take him.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

Would he look one-dimensional against actual comp (outside of Lima). Finished four dudes nobody heard of. I have no problem saying he isn't one-dimensional, but I won't say he isn't until he faces someone a bit more worthy.

Lima win was legit, I'll give him that. Wouldn't call Lima top 10 but he's hovering.

[aholbert32]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

There are not 10 better welterweights in the world than Douglas Lima right now. He brutally finished Ben Saunders twice, KO'd Rick Hawn who is a good fighter, and is on a 14-1 run. Ben Askren beat him with ease.


I completely disagree with that. I am normally a guy that rates guys that fight outside of the UFC lower than other people because they normally fight lesser competition (Like I've thought Shinya Aoki has been massively overrated his whole career) but Carlos Condit is ranked #5 in the world. Carlos Condit has a huge wrestling deficiency and Ben Askren would take advantage of that just like everyone else that beat him did.
Robbie Lawler has had a huge career resurgence but he has been outwrestled a bunch of times in his career.
You can say those were easy style matchups for Askren but I look at the rankings at WW and a lot of guys in the top 10 would be as well.

The only thing I can say we don't really know is how good Askren's chin is, but he took a huge upkick in one of his earlier Bellator fights iirc and was fine so I think it's probably pretty good.

I'd pick every fighter currently in the UFC top 10 over Lima right now. I'd also pick Gunnar Nelson over him. I'd also pick Rousimar Palhares and maybe Jon Fitch (because of Lima's defensive wrestling deficency) in the WSOF over him.

You dont have to sell me on Lima because I've watched his last 10 fights (MFC/Bellator). I just dont think we can call him a top 10 WW yet. The Saunders wins are decent but Ben's biggest win is over Marcus Davis. Ben isnt exactly top 15-20 material right now.

Regarding Askren, I'm of the belief that you have to beat top 10 fighters to be ranked in the top 5 and as long as he's outside the UFC he wont get that chance. In my opinion, he doesnt have a win over a top 10 fighter and only one over a top 15 guy. I felt the same way about Aoki. They ranked him top 2-3 and he fought Gilbert and got smashed.

[redsrule]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

I'd pick every fighter currently in the UFC top 10 over Lima right now. I'd also pick Gunnar Nelson over him. I'd also pick Rousimar Palhares and maybe Jon Fitch (because of Lima's defensive wrestling deficency) in the WSOF over him.

You'd take DHK and Jake Ellenberger over him right now? Matt Brown, Demian Maia? Tarec Saffiedine?
Gunnar Nelson looked like horse**** against Zak Cummings before he got him down. His takedowns are nothing special and Lima would kill him on the feet. And this is coming from someone that has been crazy high on Gunnar Nelson for years.
Lima's wrestling deficiency isn't as bad as you think imo. He got outwrestled by the best welterweight wrestler in the world. Rick Hawn was an Olympic judo guy Bryan Baker is a solid wrestler as well.
Jon Fitch is on the downslope of his career.
Palhares imo can beat any person in the world if he's on. He's probably the guy I'd least like to fight if I had to fight someone in MMA. His leg locks are vicious. If he can't get that leglock he folds though.

You dont have to sell me on Lima because I've watched his last 10 fights (MFC/Bellator). I just dont think we can call him a top 10 WW yet. The Saunders wins are decent but Ben's biggest win is over Marcus Davis. Ben isnt exactly top 15-20 material right now.

Looking at the UFC top 10 I don't know how you can't.
Imo, the top 10 should go something like this (probably will end up forgetting someone)
1. Hendricks 2. Lawler 3. MacDonald 4. Askren 5. Woodley 6. Condit 7. Lombard 8. Lima 9. Maia 10. Saffiedine

Regarding Askren, I'm of the belief that you have to beat top 10 fighters to be ranked in the top 5 and as long as he's outside the UFC he wont get that chance. In my opinion, he doesnt have a win over a top 10 fighter and only one over a top 15 guy. I felt the same way about Aoki. They ranked him top 2-3 and he fought Gilbert and got smashed.

Matt Brown is ranked 5th. What top 10 win does he have? I love Carlos Condit but other than a win over a green Rory MacDonald what top 10 wins does he have?

Would he look one-dimensional against actual comp (outside of Lima). Finished four dudes nobody heard of. I have no problem saying he isn't one-dimensional, but I won't say he isn't until he faces someone a bit more worthy.

Lima win was legit, I'll give him that. Wouldn't call Lima top 10 but he's hovering.

You haven't heard of Andrey Koreshkov? Guy is a fantastic striker and extremely fun to watch. 17-1 with KO wins over Cyborg and ex UFC fighter Nah-Shon Burrell in like 30 seconds.

[aholbert32]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

You'd take DHK and Jake Ellenberger over him right now? Matt Brown, Demian Maia? Tarec Saffiedine?
Gunnar Nelson looked like horse**** against Zak Cummings before he got him down. His takedowns are nothing special and Lima would kill him on the feet. And this is coming from someone that has been crazy high on Gunnar Nelson for years.
Lima's wrestling deficiency isn't as bad as you think imo. He got outwrestled by the best welterweight wrestler in the world. Rick Hawn was an Olympic judo guy Bryan Baker is a solid wrestler as well.
Jon Fitch is on the downslope of his career.
Palhares imo can beat any person in the world if he's on. He's probably the guy I'd least like to fight if I had to fight someone in MMA. His leg locks are vicious. If he can't get that leglock he folds though.


Looking at the UFC top 10 I don't know how you can't.
Imo, the top 10 should go something like this (probably will end up forgetting someone)
1. Hendricks 2. Lawler 3. MacDonald 4. Askren 5. Woodley 6. Condit 7. Lombard 8. Lima 9. Maia 10. Saffiedine



Matt Brown is ranked 5th. What top 10 win does he have? I love Carlos Condit but other than a win over a green Rory MacDonald what top 10 wins does he have?



You haven't heard of Andrey Koreshkov? Guy is a fantastic striker and extremely fun to watch. 17-1 with KO wins over Cyborg and ex UFC fighter Nah-Shon Burrell in like 30 seconds.

I would take DHK and Ellenberger over him right now because of DHK's Judo and Ellenberger's wrestling. I'd take Maia and Saffedine over him too. Especially Maia because of his BJJ. Brown is the only one I would be somewhat concerned about because I believe his ranking is deflated.

I pick Fitch because he would make it ugly and would refuse to stand with Lima and I havent seen much that makes me think Fitch couldnt lay and pray on him for 3 rounds.

We will just have to agree to disagree on Nelson v. Lima.

FYI, I watch Bellator every week so I know all about Hawn and Baker. If I recall the Hawn fight, Hawn didnt even attempt a takedown or a clinch for some crazy reason. He stood with Lima the entire two rounds (other than when he was knocked down twice).

I just watched the Baker fight again and it doesnt look like he attempted any takedowns either. Its hard to see if Lima's TD defense has improved when the grapplers he fights dont attempt to grapple.

Regarding Condit, did you forget about Nick Diaz? Diaz was the #2 ranked WW when he beat him. He also has a win of Dan Hardy (when he was top 10), Ellenberger (who went on to be a top 15 WW) and Kim (top 15-20 right now even after the Woodley loss).]

Andrey is like you said a great striker but he is absolutely lost on the ground.

[redsrule]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

I would take DHK and Ellenberger over him right now because of DHK's Judo and Ellenberger's wrestling. I'd take Maia and Saffedine over him too. Especially Maia because of his BJJ. Brown is the only one I would be somewhat concerned about because I believe his ranking is deflated.

If this was 2011 I might agree with you, but DHK basically has abandoned his judo roots in his last 3 fights. He's basically ran at opponents throwing caution to the wind. It got him KO'd against Woodley, and it would against Lima too. Ellenberger KO'd Marquardt really quickly but got stiffled by a regular jab for 15 minutes by Rory and got dominated by Lawler. His chin is iffy and Lima could put him down.
Maia was outgrappled by Rory Mac and Jake Shields. He looked meh against a non UFC level fighter in Yakovlev in his last fight.
Saffiedine has 0 killer instinct and while he might be able to win a decision, him getting rocked very badly against a dead HGL in the 5th round on one leg really makes me question him as well.

I pick Fitch because he would make it ugly and would refuse to stand with Lima and I havent seen much that makes me think Fitch couldnt lay and pray on him for 3 rounds.

We will just have to agree to disagree on Nelson v. Lima.

FYI, I watch Bellator every week so I know all about Hawn and Baker. If I recall the Hawn fight, Hawn didnt even attempt a takedown or a clinch for some crazy reason. He stood with Lima the entire two rounds (other than when he was knocked down twice).

I just watched the Baker fight again and it doesnt look like he attempted any takedowns either. Its hard to see if Lima's TD defense has improved when the grapplers he fights dont attempt to grapple.

Fitch is not the same fighter he was. His wrestling isn't as good as it used to be and he's on the downslope of his career.

Hawn tried early in the fight from what I remember. Lima just shrugged it off with ease and went on to dominate Hawn.
Lima is a huge 170er and against these smaller WW's that would really help him.

Regarding Condit, did you forget about Nick Diaz? Diaz was the #2 ranked WW when he beat him. He also has a win of Dan Hardy (when he was top 10), Ellenberger (who went on to be a top 15 WW) and Kim (top 15-20 right now even after the Woodley loss).]

Andrey is like you said a great striker but he is absolutely lost on the ground.

No but honestly did either guy win that fight? That was a horrible fight. The Ellenberger win is irrelevant because that was Jake's debut and Condit's second fight. I thought he lost that fight too (but I thought he beat Kampmann in his debut). The Kim KO was sweet but he really wasn't ranked anywhere prior to that fight. He only started gaining momentum after he scored the sweet KO's over Erick Silva and Hathaway.
That Hardy KO was phenomenal, I don't recall where he was in the rankings but that was right after he got beat down by GSP for 5 rounds. He then lost 2 more fights after that.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here. I hope with Coker now at Bellator some of the better fighters eventually make their way over to the UFC. Because like you said, it's tough to really tell how good some of them are until they face top competition.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

Thiago Silva has to feel on top of the world right now. Charges dropped and back in the UFC. Glad that we'll see him in the cage again. On that note, can we finally get Paul Daley back? I know he sucker punched Koscheck ages ago, but he didn't pull a gun on anybody lol.

[The JareBear]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

I'm confused. Did he wave a gun and threaten people or didn't he? Guess I need to read some articles about it

Edit:

So his ex-wife went back to Brazil? I feel like an idiot but I don't get it. Was there only one witness?

[aholbert32]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

I'm confused. Did he wave a gun and threaten people or didn't he? Guess I need to read some articles about it

Edit:

So his ex-wife went back to Brazil? I feel like an idiot but I don't get it. Was there only one witness?

I dont know all the facts but I remember around the time of his arrest there were a few witnesses who refuted her story.

[p_rushing]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

Bellator come on, stop this crap, either call it TNA MMA or stop

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

Anyone watching Invicta 8 tonight?

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

Anyone watching Invicta 8 tonight?

Yep. Been a good card so far, a decent amount of finishes too. I really liked Aldana a lot. They should put her on the UFC Mexico card.

[jfRED33]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

The Karate Hottie put a big time ***-whipping on Tamada!

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

The Karate Hottie put a big time ***-whipping on Tamada!

Waterson looked like a beast out there. She is super fun to watch. Tamada was pretty much a heavy bag for the fight.