Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

[goh]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

That's why I believe fans were upset, Shogun won the big war, but that's not how the fight is judged.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6XWbJzeYj9g&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6XWbJzeYj9g&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

IF you guys use FightMetric, it says that Shogun outstruck Machida 2-1. Keep in mind this is just pure statistical analysis and not biased at ALL.

http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html

Ignoring the fact Machida has the better performance rating there and how it's computerized and that if Shogun poked him in the leg for 4:45 then Machida kneed him in the face,punched him in the face and knocked him down but didn't have time to finish in the last 15 seconds it'd say Shogun won. Shogun would've outstruck him 100-2 for a 10-6 Fightmetric round but what good did it do?

That's not reliable for stuff like this,that's why you need judges.

[XFactah416]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

(Nevermind).

[allBthere]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

The criticism Velasquez gets drives me nuts. He just got done absolutely dominating a top 15-ish heavyweight, tossing him around at will and outstriking him roughly 75-5, and he still gets criticized? Why? Because he didn't get clean knockouts against Kongo and Rothwell, two guys who have been TKO'd a combined four times in 56 fights.

And yet Carwin gets this crazy hype and for what? For finishing the same sort of guys that Cain has had zero problem finishing, and then nearly losing to Gonzaga before catching him with a clean shot and knocking him out, making that Gonzaga's fourth TKO loss in 15 fights.

If Cain could make 205, his ground and pound with his chin could have him dominate that division. As it is, the only way he's losing at heavyweight is if someone is significantly bigger and stronger than him, which unfortunately for Cain, Brock Lesnar is.

I think Gonzaga would beat Cain, and that's a fight I'd like to see.

[Mossfan8480]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

Lyoto Agrees:


Lyoto Machida -


"I thought it was a very even and tough fight. I had the opportunity to see the fight again and I thought I won four rounds and Shogun took the last one. Some people say he won the fourth and fifth round, but for sure I won at least the first three rounds. The American commentators were pretty much biased. If you see the fight without audio, you will probably see a different fight. Shogun was a great opponent and had a nice strategy. He deserves all my respect as a fighter, but I was superior. I had three or four chances to finish the fight, and he never put me in danger. I didn’t get (dazed) at any moment of the fight, but I put him in danger three or four times. He kicked my legs a couple of times, but he wouldn’t knock me out with that. This fight was judged by professionals, so I’m pretty much comfortable with the result."


- Courtesy of MMAMania.com


http://mmamania.com/2009/10/27/dear-...fferent-fight/

[jeremym480]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

Lyoto Agrees:


Lyoto Machida -


"I thought it was a very even and tough fight. I had the opportunity to see the fight again and I thought I won four rounds and Shogun took the last one. Some people say he won the fourth and fifth round, but for sure I won at least the first three rounds. The American commentators were pretty much biased. If you see the fight without audio, you will probably see a different fight. Shogun was a great opponent and had a nice strategy. He deserves all my respect as a fighter, but I was superior. I had three or four chances to finish the fight, and he never put me in danger. I didn’t get (dazed) at any moment of the fight, but I put him in danger three or four times. He kicked my legs a couple of times, but he wouldn’t knock me out with that. This fight was judged by professionals, so I’m pretty much comfortable with the result."


- Courtesy of MMAMania.com


http://mmamania.com/2009/10/27/dear-...fferent-fight/

The bolded above has totally turned me off of being a Machida fan. I mean really? If he could have finished the fight why didn't he? I would almost guarantee that he's too afraid to accept a immediate rematch.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

I thought it was even worse than Silva / Leites).

Say What?! Lmfao.

[MC Fatigue]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

[woody2goody]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

The bolded above has totally turned me off of being a Machida fan. I mean really? If he could have finished the fight why didn't he? I would almost guarantee that he's too afraid to accept a immediate rematch.

That's a supremely arrogant, ignorant, completely incorrect assessment of the fight.

He's been given one chance already, and he's just scared that he will lose the rematch. If he was so superior, then why did Shogun come out of that virtually unscathed, and he came out with 4 seperate cuts on his face, bruised ribs and thighs?

I stick by it, 3 rounds to 1 for Shogun, and I hope the rematch goes ahead.

[jeremym480]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

That's a supremely arrogant, ignorant, completely incorrect assessment of the fight.

He's been given one chance already, and he's just scared that he will lose the rematch. If he was so superior, then why did Shogun come out of that virtually unscathed, and he came out with 4 seperate cuts on his face, bruised ribs and thighs?

I stick by it, 3 rounds to 1 for Shogun, and I hope the rematch goes ahead.

Yeah as do I. I mean really? Machida had 3-4 chances to finish the fight? If he did I sure didn't see it. Hopefully Machida will accept a immediate rematch because I for one would love to see it but, I doubt that he does. However, I'm sure the fight will happen again but, probably in late 2010 or 2011 (this is just me speculating and I hope that I'm wrong).

Well moving on from this unfortunate decision, who do you guys think deserves the next shot at the LHW title? Aside from Shogun, of course. We should probably take Rampage out of the equation, as well. And IMO, Rashad probably needs (at least) two wins before he deserves another shot... So, who else?

[MC Fatigue]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

Yeah as do I. I mean really? Machida had 3-4 chances to finish the fight? If he did I sure didn't see it. Hopefully Machida will accept a immediate rematch because I for one would love to see it but, I doubt that he does. However, I'm sure the fight will happen again but, probably in late 2010 or 2011 (this is just me speculating and I hope that I'm wrong).

Well moving on from this unfortunate decision, who do you guys think deserves the next shot at the LHW title? Aside from Shogun, of course. We should probably take Rampage out of the equation, as well. And IMO, Rashad probably needs (at least) two wins before he deserves another shot... So, who else?

I'd love to see Thiago Silva get it. But I don't think he's really earned it yet with just one win after his loss to Machida.

[goh]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

Why is Cecil getting hate for this? I know he's normally the one that gets crap when stuff like this happens but this was a UD,that means there were 2 other judges in agreement. (Not that it should've been a UD but still...)

I guess the winner of Tito/Forrest or Couture/Vera would be next if not Shogun. Nothing else makes sense but even that barely does. Bader is undefeated but yet to beat anyone significant. Krzysztof might've been in the running if he beat Vera.

[IStillDoWhatIDo]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

I think the issue is rooting in the scoring of the fight. if you look at the fight from a cumulative perspective, then Shogun dominated. however, if you take it round by round.. with no previous bias to the previous flow of the fight, then MAYBE you can come out with a 3-2 split for machida if you isolate each round and don't look at the flow of the fight.

using the "you have to beat the champ" philosophy, each round could have went either way. but as a spectator, we look at the rhythm of the fight and take into account the build-up from round to round. maybe the judges didn't do that.

[woody2goody]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

Yeah as do I. I mean really? Machida had 3-4 chances to finish the fight? If he did I sure didn't see it. Hopefully Machida will accept a immediate rematch because I for one would love to see it but, I doubt that he does. However, I'm sure the fight will happen again but, probably in late 2010 or 2011 (this is just me speculating and I hope that I'm wrong).

Well moving on from this unfortunate decision, who do you guys think deserves the next shot at the LHW title? Aside from Shogun, of course. We should probably take Rampage out of the equation, as well. And IMO, Rashad probably needs (at least) two wins before he deserves another shot... So, who else?

Could it be the winner of Forrest vs Ortiz? If not I'd like to see Wanderlei or Rashad again.

[goh]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

Wandy dropped to 185.

[jeremym480]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

Could it be the winner of Forrest vs Ortiz? If not I'd like to see Wanderlei or Rashad again.

I don't think the winner of Forest or Tito deserves it yet. Possibly the winner of Rashad/Silva but, those two just recenly lost to Machida. And Wanderlei has lost his last two fights so, I really don't see him getting a shot

Maybe the should go WWE style and let the winner of Tito/Forest fight the winner of Rashad/Silva for the right to be the number 1 contender.

If not, do what's right and give it to Shogun.