Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

[Mossfan8480]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

Well everyone in the arena watched the fight without sound, including Rogan and Goldberg and they were all booing the hell out of the decision at the end of the fight.

And Rogan and Goldberg were all over Machida's nuts before the fight began, but Shogun was winning so clearly that they had no other choice but to constantly talk about how Shogun was winning throughout the fight.

Duece, I think the fact that Shogun was exceeding majority of the "experts'" opinions, and probably his own, excited Rogan, as well as the fans, and caused him to focus heavily on Rua as opposed to seeing the fight as a whole. There where quite a few times where Rua landed an inside leg kick that was celebrated by Rogan and Machida landed a nice straight right/left that went unnoticed. As far as Goldberg goes, he does nothing but follow Rogan's lead.

[allBthere]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

Since when does a split lip and inflammation equal a knockdown, a takedown, or being rocked?

You may not agree with Goh, but he's right. Rua was never able to get Machida off his feet despite attempting 3 takedowns and he never had him close to being KO'd or rocked. Rua's strategy was nearly perfect, but it had one chink in the armor...it left the fight up to the judges against the champ.

that didn't seem to matter for forrest griffin did it?

this whole new line of thinking (because it didn't always exist) is BS...to win the belt, you have to win the fight period. Rua won that fight. Just because you're champ doesn't mean you should have to be ko'd to lose your belt. Machida (again, who I wanted to win) doesn't deserve the belt right now. was was a HORRIBLE decision. Watch the fight again and tell me Rua didn't win 4 rounds.

[aholbert32]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

Duece, I think the fact that Shogun was exceeding majority of the "experts'" opinions, and probably his own, excited Rogan, as well as the fans, and caused him to focus heavily on Rua as opposed to seeing the fight as a whole. There where quite a few times where Rua landed an inside leg kick that was celebrated by Rogan and Machida landed a nice straight right/left that went unnoticed. As far as Goldberg goes, he does nothing but follow Rogan's lead.

Duece said it right. At Staples, NOBODY hears the commentary. So its apparent from the boos that 20,000 people agreed with Rogan and Goldberg's "biased" commentary.

[woody2goody]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

He didn't make a mistake by leaving it up to the judges. Stop repeating what Dana said. The point of fighting is to win, whether it be decision or not and everyone agrees that Shogun won.

You guys are justifying this horrible decision because he left it up to the judges? Give me a break. Forrest got rocked more then once, and left it up to the judges but he still was given the win against Rampage.

I watched the fight with two of my friends, and one of them used that argument, that he didn't go down despite taking all that punishment. The point is, he took the punishment from Rua, and Lyoto should have been good enough to avoid it in the first place.

My other friend agreed with me that Rua won EASILY.

I had the fight scored 4 rounds to Rua, and one drawn round, and that was being kind to Lyoto.

I do prefer Rua, but I always judge fights fairly, and Lyoto did next to nothing in the whole fight, apart from a couple of knees and one flurry of punches in the drawn (3rd?) round. In my opinion Rua outclassed the champ and was robbed of a truly deserved Light Heavyweight Championship.

I reckon the judges bottled it as Machida was, A) the champion, and B) undefeated. It was the easy, cowardly decision to make IMO.

PS, a number of people have called this a 'snoozefest'. Well, all of you obviously don't appreciate a great battle between two tremendous fighters.

This was one of the most engrossing fights I've ever watched, and ignorant fans who think any fight without a decisive ending is rubbish, need to realise how tough this fight was.

It was a championship bout, 5 rounds, so the pacing had to be careful. Also, either fighter rushing in would have been picked off by the other guy.

I'll say it again, anyone who says that was a boring fight didn't watch the same one as me.

But still, Shogun got completely and utterly screwed. It was the worst decision I've ever seen, and I wasn't listening to the commentary either, I made my own mind up.

[mgoblue]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

After watching the Shogun/Machida fight I don't see how you can give it to Machida...Shogun had him dominated in effort, leg kicks, etc.

Look forward to the rematch!

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

Since when does a split lip and inflammation equal a knockdown, a takedown, or being rocked?

You may not agree with Goh, but he's right. Rua was never able to get Machida off his feet despite attempting 3 takedowns and he never had him close to being KO'd or rocked. Rua's strategy was nearly perfect, but it had one chink in the armor...it left the fight up to the judges against the champ.

I never said anything equaled anything.

The same things you listed that Rua didn't do could be said about Machida sans the attempts for takedowns.

The bottom line is who took more damage?

Taking a look at the numbers, it looks like we have an answer [hint: not the same decision the judges made]

http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html

[Coug00]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

He didn't make a mistake by leaving it up to the judges. Stop repeating what Dana said. The point of fighting is to win, whether it be decision or not and everyone agrees that Shogun won.

You guys are justifying this horrible decision because he left it up to the judges? Give me a break. Forrest got rocked more then once, and left it up to the judges but he still was given the win against Rampage.

I haven't read a single word of what Dana White said. We've seen enough times that crazy things can happen when it goes to the judges...especially when Peoples is one of them. And who is justifying the decision? I think Rua won the fight and said so earlier in the thread. Again, fair or not, the problem is that Rua didn't knock or tap Machida out and lost the fight because he left it in someone else's hands.

I never said anything equaled anything.

The same things you listed that Rua didn't do could be said about Machida sans the attempts for takedowns.

The bottom line is who took more damage?

Taking a look at the numbers, it looks like we have an answer [hint: not the same decision the judges made]

http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html

I'm not arguing who should have won the fight! AGAIN, I think Rua won 48-47 and dished out more damage. But you stated you agreed with 0% of Goh's post when he made a legitimate point that was 100% accurate.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

I haven't read a single word of what Dana White said. We've seen enough times that crazy things can happen when it goes to the judges...especially when Peoples is one of them. And who is justifying the decision? I think Rua won the fight and said so earlier in the thread. Again, fair or not, the problem is that Rua didn't knock or tap Machida out and lost the fight because he left it in someone else's hands.



I'm not arguing who should have won the fight! AGAIN, I think Rua won 48-47 and dished out more damage. But you stated you agreed with 0% of Goh's post when he made a legitimate point that was 100% accurate.

Let's go over this again.
Here's what this guy said:

Rule #1: Never let it go to the judges.
Rule #2: To be the man,you've gotta beat the man.

Disagree with these because Rua didn't exactly "leave it to the judges". In my estimation he indeed did "beat the man".. convincingly.

Under Pride rules Shogun probably would've won. Under old UFC rules it would've went another 5 minutes and probably would've been a draw. Since it's under current MMA rules Shogun didn't win and Machida didn't lose.

Under any rules Rua wins, and it's not even a draw. Which rules dictated that Machida won a unanimous decision?

[Coug00]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

Let's go over this again.
Here's what this guy said:

Rule #1: Never let it go to the judges.
Rule #2: To be the man,you've gotta beat the man.

Disagree with these because Rua didn't exactly "leave it to the judges". In my estimation he indeed did "beat the man".. convincingly.

Under Pride rules Shogun probably would've won. Under old UFC rules it would've went another 5 minutes and probably would've been a draw. Since it's under current MMA rules Shogun didn't win and Machida didn't lose.

Under any rules Rua wins, and it's not even a draw. Which rules dictated that Machida won a unanimous decision?

He also said this. You don't agree with this?

Shogun didn't exactly do much either. Did he knock Machida down? No. Did he take him down? No. Did he rock him with a strike? No. Machida didn't do any of those things either. Even people that have Shogun winning don't agree what rounds he won,that's because it was a close fight.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

He also said this. You don't agree with this?

"Shogun didn't exactly do much either. Did he knock Machida down? No. Did he take him down? No. Did he rock him with a strike? No. Machida didn't do any of those things either. Even people that have Shogun winning don't agree what rounds he won,that's because it was a close fight."

It was not a close fight. Anyone can outline the things that Rua didn't do but it's pointless to when in the end Machida did even less. So slice it any way you want.

I agree with about 3% of the post. My mistake.

I haven't looked, but has there been any sort of explanation from the judges as to why Machida won unanimously?

[NBA2k8 CHAMP]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

The decision was total BS

[Coug00]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

It was not a close fight. Anyone can outline the things that Rua didn't do but it's pointless to when in the end Machida did even less. So slice it any way you want.

I agree with about 3% of the post. My mistake.

I haven't looked, but has there been any sort of explanation from the judges as to why Machida won unanimously?

And what I'm saying is that I believe the judges protected Machida because Rua didn't knock him down, take him down, knock him out, stun him, etc. As BS as it is, I'm guessing to them, he didn't do enough to knock off the champ. Its water under the bridge now. Hopefully the rematch will be judged more fairly.

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

I’m a huge Machida fan but there’s no way he won that fight. I had Rua winning Rounds 1,2,4, and 5. Sure Rua didn’t dominate Machida but I don’t believe in the BS about how you need to really win in really convincing fashion to knock off the Champ. Rua’s strategy was perfect. He didn’t lunge in and get overly aggressive. He stay patient and worked on Machida’s leg’s and ribs and only went in when there appeared to be an opening.

I believe Rua will have a significant disadvantage for the rematch. After what happened, there’s no way he’s going to want to leave it up to the judges. He’s going to try to finish the fight and this will play right into Machida’s trap. I expect to see a really aggressive Rua next time out. I’ll be shocked if it even lasts 3 rounds.

Other thoughts for 104:

- What a performance by Velasquez. He made Rothwell look like an amateur. He had a right to complain about the stoppage since he was on his way up but he would have lost anyways. Velasquez deserves to fight the winner of Carwin/Lesnar.

- Rumble Johnson looked like he was at 200 pounds vs. Yoshida. Sure it was a great knock out but I don’t respect fighters that come in with a significant advantage like that. I’m sure Yoshida was thinking if I don’t accept the fight than there might not even be a late replacement and I won’t get paid a penny.

- I was impressed with Barry and Sonnen. Even Schafer looked good in defeat taking all those blows and hanging in there.

- LOL at one of the announcers asking “Is that Ozzy Osbourne?” when Demi Moore appeared.

I have the Machida/Rua rematch in March. In Jan we got Silva/Belfort and in Feb we are likely going to see GSP vs. the winner of Hardy/Swick.

[goh]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

I already went 'Sheed on ya'll but wasn't a close fight?!? When the people that say Shogun won don't even agree on what rounds he won that means it was close. In general perception the only decisive rounds were 3 for Machida and 5 for Shogun. That leaves 3 to go either way.

ONE sucessful takedown,big hit or even a flurry from Shogun in round 1 or 4 would've got him it with the 3 judges that actually matter. He didn't do any of that.

So what are we left with? Shogun didn't win so Machida didn't lose.

Maybe he'll try to do more than kick him in the leg while getting a punch back half the time in the rematch. Maybe that'll get him knocked out. Maybe it'll get him the win.

I'll just borrow this:

Neither man was overly aggressive, afraid to overcommit and get caught by a perfectly timed strike that could lead to the finish. Neither tried to finish rounds with a flurry to steal an otherwise close round. Neither dropped the other, or even staggered them. Every five-minute stretch ended with some doubt.

Rua's corner told him he was winning. Machida's corner did the same. In the crowd, the fans -- many of whom started the fight rooting for Machida -- began moving into Rua's camp. That made sense, since Machida was a 4 1/2 to 1 favorite and fans often gravitate towards the underdog. The argument continued online. On Twitter, UFC heavyweight Shane Carwin thought the judges got it wrong, but Strikeforce lightweight Josh Thomson thought they were right on point. Not even a computer had a decisive stance; FightMetric.com gave Machida a higher performance rating, but Rua the win under the 10-point must system.

http://mmafighting.com/news/2009/10/25/outrage-shogun-machida-decision-unwarranted

Now...

Both guys fought hard,God bless and good night!

[RobtAndProud]

Re: Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

The Velasquez fight. Do you really think he could beat lesnar? From what I have seen is someone with good wrestling who cant finish it on the ground.

Yes he beat rothwell but even though he was beating his face in, Rothwell still wasn't out. I am not saying Cain didnt deserve that win because he obviously dominated the fight but against two opponents (rothwell, kongo) he didnt finish it and to beat Lesnar, I dont think what he did to win those fights will fly. Just an opinion, whats yours?