WWE Netflix/Peacock/ESPN Discussion Thread

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  • ubernoob
    ****
    • Jul 2004
    • 15522

    #3271
    Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

    Just starting it now, because I forgot about it.

    Vince's answer on Cesaro was pure BS. At least half of it was.

    Cesaro, not great on the mic but just as serviceable as most of the roster that gets more time. Not blaming ****ty *** booking for him not getting over like he could.

    He's right in his assessment that most of his appeal at the moment is in ring and everything, he's also very charismatic in the ring. Mic needs work. Let's not pretend that basically forgetting about him after he won the Battle Royal isn't why he's not over, though, Vince.
    bad

    Comment

    • DonkeyJote
      All Star
      • Jul 2003
      • 9192

      #3272
      Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

      They didn't forget about him. They put him with their top manager. It just never gained traction.

      I know everyone wants to see Cesaro make it big, but I kinda agree with Vince here. Outside of the swing, he's never been able to connect with fans (and that's what "it" is, imo). And as far as charisma, I think it's something he could work on as well. It's too easy to for him to fade into the background when in the ring with guys. You don't see that out of the top guys or Wyatt, Rollins, Ambrose, Ziggler. Charisma, to me, means your eyes are drawn to the guy. That doesn't happen with Cesaro yet. Don't get me wrong; I think Cesaro can get back on track, but when a failed shot like pairing him with Heyman happens, I think the guy's gotta fall for a bit before he gets back up there.

      Also, long-term, keeping him face after Mania would've been a bad move if they want him to be a legitimate main event guy. Using the swing as a staple screams mid card to me. And that was his babyface appeal.

      Comment

      • ubernoob
        ****
        • Jul 2004
        • 15522

        #3273
        Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

        They put him with a top heel manager, when people wanted to cheer for him so he got nothing more than the confused reaction.

        People cheered for him because of his in-ring ability (not because of the swing. WWE just saw a gimmick there and they never fail to run a gimmick into the ground) and he's a joy to watch... wrestle. Which is a dirty word to the WWE now on the main roster.

        Plus every time Heyman talked, it was about Brock. They did zero favors to Cesaro the way they booked him after the Battle Royal. It's just how it is. WWE hasn't changed, nor are they going to change drastically in the near future. People that like wrestling should watch NXT. People that like the WWE should watch the main roster.

        See: Emma. Puts on good matches in NXT. Gets called up. Stuck with Santino in a comedy role, where the pair comes off horribly.
        Last edited by ubernoob; 12-02-2014, 06:07 AM.
        bad

        Comment

        • DonkeyJote
          All Star
          • Jul 2003
          • 9192

          #3274
          Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

          Originally posted by ubernoob
          They put him with a top heel manager, when people wanted to cheer for him so he got nothing more than the confused reaction.

          People cheered for him because of his in-ring ability (not because of the swing. WWE just saw a gimmick there and they never fail to run a gimmick into the ground) and he's a joy to watch... wrestle. Which is a dirty word to the WWE now on the main roster.

          Plus every time Heyman talked, it was about Brock. They did zero favors to Cesaro the way they booked him after the Battle Royal. It's just how it is. WWE hasn't changed, nor are they going to change drastically in the near future. People that like wrestling should watch NXT. People that like the WWE should watch the main roster.

          See: Emma. Puts on good matches in NXT. Gets called up. Stuck with Santino in a comedy role, where the pair comes off horribly.
          I disagree with you on why he was cheered. He is a great wrestler, but a lot of great wrestlers don't get cheered. He got a babyface reaction while being a heel because of the swing. I'm glad he's mostly dropped it, because I think he can do a lot more. The Heyman thing obviously didn't work. But he didn't just talk about Brock. He'd lead off with Brock, and then transition into Cesaro. Could it have been booked better? Sure. But I don't think a babyface run would've done Cesaro much favors long-term; it's more of a comedy move, and would've held him back.

          And Emma can work, but her whole gimmick is a comedy gimmick. Didn't she do the dancing and bubbles in nxt before Santino?

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          • ubernoob
            ****
            • Jul 2004
            • 15522

            #3275
            Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

            Yes, but it wasn't just that the entire time. Though, that's because the divas on the main show rarely get to do anything other than a joke match...

            and when they do, they let the wrong divas do it (see: Survivor Series match, which was quite likely the worst match of the year.)
            bad

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            • TheVinylHippo
              MVP
              • Jul 2008
              • 1007

              #3276
              Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

              Originally posted by DonkeyJote
              They didn't forget about him. They put him with their top manager. It just never gained traction.

              I know everyone wants to see Cesaro make it big, but I kinda agree with Vince here. Outside of the swing, he's never been able to connect with fans (and that's what "it" is, imo). And as far as charisma, I think it's something he could work on as well. It's too easy to for him to fade into the background when in the ring with guys. You don't see that out of the top guys or Wyatt, Rollins, Ambrose, Ziggler. Charisma, to me, means your eyes are drawn to the guy. That doesn't happen with Cesaro yet. Don't get me wrong; I think Cesaro can get back on track, but when a failed shot like pairing him with Heyman happens, I think the guy's gotta fall for a bit before he gets back up there.

              Also, long-term, keeping him face after Mania would've been a bad move if they want him to be a legitimate main event guy. Using the swing as a staple screams mid card to me. And that was his babyface appeal.

              Yeah, they put a guy who was on the verge of a babyface turn with the top heel manager, who also happened to be the guy who managed the wrestler who just broke The Streak the previous night, which made him the biggest villain in the company. Brilliant move. Go back and watch the end of the Battle Royal and tell me the only thing he had going for him was the Swing. Crowds would pop for *any* power move by Cesaro, not just the Swing. Crowds were amazed by his feats of strength and the Swing was only one of them. That crowd at WrestleMania XXX exploded when he lifted the Big Show in the air. By your logic, Cena's "Five Knuckle Shuffle" should've held his "babyface appeal" back. It, just like the Swing, is a spot in the match that pops the crowd.

              Sorry, but I think anyone who believes Cesaro wasn't on the verge of being a big babyface is full of it, and I'll never be convinced otherwise.
              Last edited by TheVinylHippo; 12-02-2014, 12:21 PM.

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              • SmashMan
                All Star
                • Dec 2004
                • 9748

                #3277
                Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

                Originally posted by DonkeyJote
                And Emma can work, but her whole gimmick is a comedy gimmick. Didn't she do the dancing and bubbles in nxt before Santino?
                As uber said, she did but it wasn't her whole deal in NXT. She was a wrestler who also danced around.

                On the main roster she was debuted with "Look at how fun her dance is!!" "I don't get it, Michael!" "That's because it's fun!" ::Michael Cole dance::

                They did this same **** with Xavier Woods when they called him up and gave the crowd no reason to care about him.

                --

                Cesaro was set to be a big babyface, and they just blew it this time. You can say it was all the swing, and it was no doubt his big spot; but he was also getting crowds behind him with pure power spots like the suplex from the apron in and when he had that run of hitting the Neutralizer on almost every big man possible. Crowds were into it, man. All they had to do was break up the Real Americans and let him do his thing.

                Comment

                • ubernoob
                  ****
                  • Jul 2004
                  • 15522

                  #3278
                  Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

                  Thinking about that still, and something really irks me.

                  It's the fact that we see **** like Reigns getting the super-ultra-alpha-mega-push, when his in ring ability has thus far fallen somewhere between "pure ****" and "lackluster".

                  Meanwhile Cesaro (and this isn't just about Cesaro, this goes for any number of people) have never said anything on the mic that have made me cringe the way Reigns did at Survivor Series.

                  Seriously. I don't know if it was the writers, him or (most likely) a combination of both... but Reigns saying "I would **** this here fist and I would make it rain in that bitch" made me cringe. His delivery is terrible, and the lines (if given by the writers) are on par with the quality of their movies.

                  But let's push him while saying others just don't have it. Also, I laughed pretty hard at Vince not only burying half his entire roster... but burying an entire generation, multiple times.

                  Even H and his golden shovel haven't done that.
                  bad

                  Comment

                  • DonkeyJote
                    All Star
                    • Jul 2003
                    • 9192

                    #3279
                    Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

                    I know other spots of Cesaro got pops too, but I think if you take the swing out, he doesn't get those. I don't want it to seem like I don't like Cesaro. I do. I just don't think he was set for as big a run as you guys think. He'd be better off than he is now, sure, but I think the ceiling would be lower there. We also all know you can't use the Wrestlemania crowd as a real barometer. It's a different crowd, like New York or Chicago. He was getting pops in other cities, but not like at Mania.

                    I'm not a huge Reigns fan. I get that he has the look, and he's a hell of an athlete, but he's still so green. But I actually thought his Survivor Series promo was one of his best. He actually showed personality. And you may think it was corny, but if I recall, that line got a pretty big pop.

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                    • DJ
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Apr 2003
                      • 17756

                      #3280
                      Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

                      Cesaro should've stayed with Zeb so he could keep the Real Americans theme song. His new music choices have been very lackluster.
                      Currently Playing:
                      MLB The Show 25 (PS5)

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                      • ubernoob
                        ****
                        • Jul 2004
                        • 15522

                        #3281
                        Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

                        Honestly, I think the best thing for Reigns at this point is for WWE to just keep going with his mega-push, except turn it up to 11.

                        Make people hate him and his golden horseshoe, and give him the "Die Rocky Die" treatment. Then poof. Mega-heel and a foil for Cena that we haven't seen before.
                        bad

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                        • Trevelyan
                          MVP
                          • Oct 2003
                          • 1047

                          #3282
                          Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

                          Another hilarious part of the Austin - VKM interview that I forgot about was Vince saying no one has grabbed the "brass ring" since Cena. Thats an absolute joke. CM Punk and DB both did and Vince pretended it didn't happen.

                          Comment

                          • DJ
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Apr 2003
                            • 17756

                            #3283
                            Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

                            Originally posted by Trevelyan
                            Another hilarious part of the Austin - VKM interview that I forgot about was Vince saying no one has grabbed the "brass ring" since Cena. Thats an absolute joke. CM Punk and DB both did and Vince pretended it didn't happen.
                            Yeah, when Vince was saying all of that it was like 'hello, Vince. The person you are describing is the guy that just ripped your company and medical staff apart on a podcast last week. His name is CM Punk.'
                            Currently Playing:
                            MLB The Show 25 (PS5)

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                            • cquigley
                              MVP
                              • Sep 2009
                              • 1803

                              #3284
                              Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

                              I understand that most people on this forum don't agree with Reigns getting the big push he has but he really does get big pops from the live audiences.

                              Most people love his big spots. I love the boot to the face on the apron and I've always loved the spear as a power move. I personally hate the punch but if you hear the crowd when he sets up for it they go nuts.

                              Cesaro was totally ruined by the Heyman pairing that's 100% obvious and we can beat a dead horse but I doubt Vince would ever agree that they were at fault there.
                              Philadelphia Phillies-Philadelphia Eagles-PSN:cquigs

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                              • ggsimmonds
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Jan 2009
                                • 11235

                                #3285
                                Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

                                Started watching the MNW series. Good stuff so far. I get the impression that Vince personally dislikes Ted Turner. "I'm in the rasslin business" and "you show more of the tit" made me chuckle.

                                Just saw the episode on The Rock and I enjoyed it. Though I knew I would because I am completely bias. I always mark out for the Rock. It was nice to see the story about his first heel turn and how much of the mic work was him. I'm talking about the asking for 30 seconds on the microphone bit after joining the nation.

                                But as a Rock fanboy I would have liked to hear more on him working with other guys. Seems like Rock is more willing to put guys over. Also would have liked to hear more on the backstage rivalries.

                                Seems like the show teases smarks on stuff we would love to hear without actually revealing much.

                                And I would like to echo previous comments regarding the problems WWE were facing pre attitude era and how they are facing similar problems now. Specifically the Rock's debut. They marketed him as a babyface who always smiled and was just happy to be here (sound familar?) and the crowd no likey. Vince listened to the fans and had the sense to go ahead with a heel turn.

                                In other episodes everyone speaks so highly of the attitude era. We know the fans loved it, but the wrestlers also loved it. It allowed for creative freedom which in turn led to good competition between the boys. The narrative that was painted was that the WWE locker room had good feelings while the WCW locker room was very tense, even when they were winning.

                                Final comment, I actually forgot how hot Sunny was. Pretty sure she was the first one I rubbed one off to. Back in the day most of my friends were Sable fans but I love me some Sunny days.

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