WWE Netflix/Peacock/ESPN Discussion Thread

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  • UFCMPunk
    All Star
    • Jan 2016
    • 8906

    #6226
    Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

    WWE 24 is the best show on the Network, it gives us the documentaries we normally buy on DVD for just $9.99 a month. The crazy thing is hearing Kurt say he tried to kill himself putting 25 pain killers in his mouth and hoping not to wake up.

    That's a scary thought thinking that Kurt could not be here right now.

    Comment

    • UFCMPunk
      All Star
      • Jan 2016
      • 8906

      #6227
      Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

      They are mentioning TNA, guess it's alright since TNA is dead and GFW replaced it.

      Comment

      • adembroski
        49ers
        • Jul 2002
        • 5829

        #6228
        Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

        So I just watched last week's NXT... it's main event blows the doors off that entire PPV. I don't understand how anyone can give that a passing grade.

        Sent from my SM-G930P using Operation Sports mobile app
        There are two types of people on OS: Those who disagree with me, and those who agree.

        The first kind is wrong. The second is superfluous.

        The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.
        -Mark Twain.

        Comment

        • SmashMan
          All Star
          • Dec 2004
          • 9749

          #6229
          Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

          Originally posted by adembroski
          So I just watched last week's NXT... it's main event blows the doors off that entire PPV. I don't understand how anyone can give that a passing grade.

          Sent from my SM-G930P using Operation Sports mobile app
          Yes, yes. Everything NXT good. Everything main roster bad. Not sure why it can't be a great match just on the merits of Roode vs Strong having a great match. There has to be a shot at the main roster for some reason?

          I mean...there are one or two good/great matches every few months at a Takeover, but NXT has had months of filler episodes and boring feuds too, dude.

          Comment

          • adembroski
            49ers
            • Jul 2002
            • 5829

            #6230
            Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

            Originally posted by SmashMan
            Yes, yes. Everything NXT good. Everything main roster bad. Not sure why it can't be a great match just on the merits of Roode vs Strong having a great match. There has to be a shot at the main roster for some reason?

            I mean...there are one or two good/great matches every few months at a Takeover, but NXT has had months of filler episodes and boring feuds too, dude.
            The shot was being made regardless whether I brought NXT into it. I think we're giving WWE a pass when we know they're capable of better. People giving a PPV that had not one single clean babyface finish, and hardly a decisive finish, a B or better?

            And NXT at it's worse has been miles better than the main roster in terms of match quality except a period of time when they were between major signings and had to develop people. Yanno, as a development brand is wont to do. Main roster has none of those excuses.

            Yes, it's absolutely true, NXT does absolutely everything far, far, far, far better than the main roster. That's objective fact at this point.
            There are two types of people on OS: Those who disagree with me, and those who agree.

            The first kind is wrong. The second is superfluous.

            The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.
            -Mark Twain.

            Comment

            • dubcity
              Hall Of Fame
              • May 2012
              • 17874

              #6231
              Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

              Originally posted by SmashMan
              I mean...there are one or two good/great matches every few months at a Takeover, but NXT has had months of filler episodes and boring feuds too, dude.
              Pretty much. NXT PPVs can be great, but I feel like people go overboard with the praise. I feel like part of it is that people view it as the underground/cool show, so heaping huge praise on everything NXT makes people feel like they're in on the cutting edge of things.

              Comment

              • SmashMan
                All Star
                • Dec 2004
                • 9749

                #6232
                Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

                Originally posted by adembroski
                The shot was being made regardless whether I brought NXT into it.
                I was confused because you already made that point two or three times though.

                I think we're giving WWE a pass when we know they're capable of better. People giving a PPV that had not one single clean babyface finish, and hardly a decisive finish, a B or better?
                They're capable of better, or at least better consistency, yeah. No argument there. Not sure where "not one single clean babyface finish" applies here. Is this a thing where you're a fan of the babyface and wanted them to win or that they booked in a way you wouldn't so it sucks?
                Tag title match was good, so was the Intercontinental (though the feud has gone way too long), and the Ambulance match. Main event was shorter than I wanted but I liked the physicality between them in the time they had too. The heels won...so? The matches were still good. No comment on letter grades because those never made sense to me. I just judge as liked/disliked/meh.

                And NXT at it's worse has been miles better than the main roster in terms of match quality except a period of time when they were between major signings and had to develop people. Yanno, as a development brand is wont to do. Main roster has none of those excuses.

                Yes, it's absolutely true, NXT does absolutely everything far, far, far, far better than the main roster. That's objective fact at this point.
                Nah, still subjective. NXT shares a lot of similarities with the main roster, actually. Relatively shallow main event scene. Women's division primarily built around one person. An abundance of generic guys whose gimmick is "he's a tough competitor". Tag division that just kind of...exists. These issues just aren't as overexposed as the main roster is since NXT only has the one hour per week.

                Comment

                • adembroski
                  49ers
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 5829

                  #6233
                  Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

                  Originally posted by SmashMan
                  I was confused because you already made that point two or three times though.
                  Ok, I'll take a different tact then.

                  They're capable of better, or at least better consistency, yeah. No argument there. Not sure where "not one single clean babyface finish" applies here. Is this a thing where you're a fan of the babyface and wanted them to win or that they booked in a way you wouldn't so it sucks?
                  There's no flow to the show. You have effectively the same finish for the entire card. Time was, you would vary the finishes to keep everything fresh is it goes on. By the third match you could see everything else coming because WWE does this a lot. A B-level PPV becomes a glorified Raw because a an A-level PPV is coming. You can do these set ups on Raw, the idea that it's a PPV is irrelevant. There needs to be a reason to get excited for a PPV, and when your C-show is putting on matches better than anything on your A-show's PPV, there's something wrong.

                  Tag title match was good, so was the Intercontinental (though the feud has gone way too long), and the Ambulance match. Main event was shorter than I wanted but I liked the physicality between them in the time they had too. The heels won...so? The matches were still good. No comment on letter grades because those never made sense to me. I just judge as liked/disliked/meh.
                  Gonna snip your last paragraph because I'm not going to get into NXT this time, as I've overused that argument.

                  First off, we can argue about how "good" those matches were. I liked the Ironman match quite a bit, but I can't give the other ones all that much credit. The ambulance match didn't really escalate anything beyond what we saw Braun do to Roman a couple months ago. It was tit-for-tat on a bigger stage. Was it a good match? Sure, but was it a PPV carrying match? No. Not by itself. This, however, is purely subjective, so I'm not going to try to get you to admit any other point of view or anything.

                  There was a time not terribly long ago that you paid for PPVs because you knew that's where the titles were going to change hands, where you'd get the decisive finishes, where you'd get the culmination of everything you invested watching Raw and Smackdown every week. Everything built to PPVs. Now they treat PPVs as less talky Raws unless they're Big 4 (Smackdown's a little better about this than Raw is, but not by that much).

                  Let's take this from one show to the larger context. The median WWE viewer has aged 30 years in the past 17 actual years (measuring from the WWE's peak of popularity in 2000). The average viewership has dropped by over half. House show attendance is down something like 10,000 per show from 2000, and 14% just YOY. The WWE is failing.

                  In fact, it's been failing for 17 years. It's hemorrhaging fans and not creating new ones.

                  There are some reasonable arguments as to why; lack of on-demand options for the main shows hurts them among young people, 5 hours of content is a lot of time to commit every week, the sports viewing demo is aging across the board,among others, however, there's one overriding truth...

                  The WWE books like ****. They ignore not just basic wrestling fundamentals built up over a century of trial and error, but also basic logic. They're obsessed with HEEEEEEEET, almost always choosing finding ways to anger the fans rather than getting anyone over, and when they do try to get someone over, it's someone nobody wanted in the first place.

                  The WWE refuses to learn the lessons of the death of WCW, the downfall of Impact, it's own decline over the past 17 years. This show was simply indicative of it; they are single minded, myopic, and live completely within the bubble of their own misconceptions. They loath the most loyal fans to the point of open contempt.

                  The hardcore smark fan does not drive the business. They only keep it afloat. So the hardcore smark, who appreciates great heel work and will cheer a Miz or Samoa Joe for being very good heels, is going to look at this show and go, "That wasn't bad. Good quality matches, people I like went over." But wrestling is a star babyface driven sport, and every young casual who roots for the babyface went home disappointed and many of them wont bother to watch again. Then the WWE will do the same thing 3 or 4 times this year, reducing their potential to recover each time by turning away fans who just don't want to bother when all they see is their favorite guy getting screwed and never getting justice.

                  The statistics indicate all of this, but I'll throw this in anecdotally; wrestling used to be a family activity in my house. We watched together, three of us, and we watched all of it. Raw, Smackdown, 205-Live, and NXT.

                  The kid (17 yrs) has quit. He found himself walking away saying, "What utter bull****" so many times he wouldn't even go to the Smackdown show with us on Independence Day. He now hates it for exactly the reasons I already explained. Last night, his mother said the same thing: that she's just done with it [it was Ambrose getting screwed once again that did it for her] (between us: I'm kinda glad. If I can cut down to JUST watching NXT, I'll be a happier person).
                  Last edited by adembroski; 07-11-2017, 01:01 PM.
                  There are two types of people on OS: Those who disagree with me, and those who agree.

                  The first kind is wrong. The second is superfluous.

                  The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.
                  -Mark Twain.

                  Comment

                  • TheShizNo1
                    Asst 2 the Comm Manager
                    • Mar 2007
                    • 26341

                    #6234
                    Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

                    Man, I come away from that post thinking, "then don't watch". I hate to be that guy but if what they're doing bothers you so much, change the channel.

                    I've lost interest in nxt and the main shows for plenty of reasons listed here. As a wrestling fan, LU, The Network, and now NJPW give me my fix. WWE is on in the background and if nothing else is on (like last night). I didn't think the PPV or Raw were bad last night but I also admit to myself, at this point, it ain't for me. You talk about the 17 year old never watching (that's not an odd age to stop watching...) but that's OK when I walk into a school and still see a hideous amount of Cena shirts being worn by kids. SD came near me recently and while it wasn't sold out, there weren't a lot of good seats left. WWE will be fine. You still have wrestlers leaving other promotions to go there. You see guys go to other promotions and come back and they're usually grateful to be back. Their **** still trends on The Twitter (for better or for worse) and I'd daresay they have wrestlers with more mainstream media exposure now than ever before.

                    And this may sound dumb or ridiculous, but I think it's really hard for some wrestling fans to accept you'll never enjoy it as much as you used to. But don't be this guy:



                    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
                    Originally posted by Mo
                    Just once I'd like to be the one they call a jerk off.
                    Originally posted by Mo
                    You underestimate my laziness
                    Originally posted by Mo
                    **** ya


                    ...

                    Comment

                    • redsox4evur
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Jul 2013
                      • 18169

                      #6235
                      Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

                      Originally posted by TheShizNo1
                      Man, I come away from that post thinking, "then don't watch". I hate to be that guy but if what they're doing bothers you so much, change the channel.

                      I've lost interest in nxt and the main shows for plenty of reasons listed here. As a wrestling fan, LU, The Network, and now NJPW give me my fix. WWE is on in the background and if nothing else is on (like last night). I didn't think the PPV or Raw were bad last night but I also admit to myself, at this point, it ain't for me. You talk about the 17 year old never watching (that's not an odd age to stop watching...) but that's OK when I walk into a school and still see a hideous amount of Cena shirts being worn by kids. SD came near me recently and while it wasn't sold out, there weren't a lot of good seats left. WWE will be fine. You still have wrestlers leaving other promotions to go there. You see guys go to other promotions and come back and they're usually grateful to be back. Their **** still trends on The Twitter (for better or for worse) and I'd daresay they have wrestlers with more mainstream media exposure now than ever before.

                      And this may sound dumb or ridiculous, but I think it's really hard for some wrestling fans to accept you'll never enjoy it as much as you used to. But don't be this guy:



                      Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

                      Yep I'll admit, when I was younger I followed WWE (knew the champs, main event guys, big names, etc.) but I never really watched because of my parents (they just didn't like it, didn't want me watching it). And I stopped following in 2008/09. Then couple years ago I saw the commercial for the free month of the Network and decided to give it a try (happened to be the night of the first Takeover in Brooklyn). So I watched it and got me back in. I am more engaged in wrestling than I was before, but I felt more passionate about it when I was younger. And I'll do the same thing watch a couple episodes of LU, old WWE, some of the bigger NJPW matches. It satisfies my hunger. I don't watch 205 Live at all, will watch NXT the week leading up to Takeover. And half of the time I don't even finish all the NXT episodes before Takeover on Saturday night. I see enough to know what the matches are and that's it. But like others have said 90% of the stuff is filler to wait in between Takeover events.


                      Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
                      Follow me on Twitter

                      Comment

                      • adembroski
                        49ers
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 5829

                        #6236
                        Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

                        Originally posted by TheShizNo1
                        Man, I come away from that post thinking, "then don't watch". I hate to be that guy but if what they're doing bothers you so much, change the channel.
                        I thought I'd made it clear by the end that's pretty much where I'm at. Regardless, you're still missing the point. If the WWE keeps going as it's going, you wont have the choice. Even if you love it, it will die.

                        I've lost interest in nxt and the main shows for plenty of reasons listed here. As a wrestling fan, LU, The Network, and now NJPW give me my fix. WWE is on in the background and if nothing else is on (like last night). I didn't think the PPV or Raw were bad last night but I also admit to myself, at this point, it ain't for me. You talk about the 17 year old never watching (that's not an odd age to stop watching...) but that's OK when I walk into a school and still see a hideous amount of Cena shirts being worn by kids. SD came near me recently and while it wasn't sold out, there weren't a lot of good seats left. WWE will be fine. You still have wrestlers leaving other promotions to go there. You see guys go to other promotions and come back and they're usually grateful to be back. Their **** still trends on The Twitter (for better or for worse) and I'd daresay they have wrestlers with more mainstream media exposure now than ever before.
                        Their **** trends on twitter... how much money do they get from that? What does it matter if I go on wearing my Best in the World t-shirt if I don't watch? Viewership and attendance is plummeting, the median viewer is now 54 years old... whether I *like* the product or not is irrelevant, they are killing themselves.

                        And this may sound dumb or ridiculous, but I think it's really hard for some wrestling fans to accept you'll never enjoy it as much as you used to. But don't be this guy:



                        Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
                        Why? Why not? Why should one not be a guy that sees wrestling as it was intended, as it thrived for nearly a century? Why is the modern fan so superior? Are you so much smarter because WWE decided to just admit it was fake to avoid taxes? Because a fan happened to sneak in a camera for the curtain call?

                        We're not smarter than previous generations of wrestling fans, but there are a hell of a lot fewer of us.



                        Sent from my SM-G930P using Operation Sports mobile app
                        There are two types of people on OS: Those who disagree with me, and those who agree.

                        The first kind is wrong. The second is superfluous.

                        The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.
                        -Mark Twain.

                        Comment

                        • SmashMan
                          All Star
                          • Dec 2004
                          • 9749

                          #6237
                          Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

                          Originally posted by adembroski
                          Why? Why not? Why should one not be a guy that sees wrestling as it was intended, as it thrived for nearly a century? Why is the modern fan so superior? Are you so much smarter because WWE decided to just admit it was fake to avoid taxes? Because a fan happened to sneak in a camera for the curtain call?

                          We're not smarter than previous generations of wrestling fans, but there are a hell of a lot fewer of us.


                          Sent from my SM-G930P using Operation Sports mobile app

                          Does "be a guy that sees wrestling as it was intended" mean to be a fan that analyzes their financials, ratings history, and backstage gossip? I'm trying to see how that sentence and your other paragraphs co-exist.

                          Seeing it as it was intended is cheering a face, booing a heel, and being invested enough to buy a ticket to see the show. That's your/my/our role in this circus; if we want to go along as it was intended.

                          Not going to get into the fan superiority thing because I don't think anyone's actually making that argument and I'm not even sure your definition. Is it an age thing? Or based on the era?




                          Sent from my iPad using Operation Sports

                          Comment

                          • TheShizNo1
                            Asst 2 the Comm Manager
                            • Mar 2007
                            • 26341

                            #6238
                            Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

                            Originally posted by adembroski



                            Why? Why not? Why should one not be a guy that sees wrestling as it was intended, as it thrived for nearly a century? Why is the modern fan so superior? Are you so much smarter because WWE decided to just admit it was fake to avoid taxes? Because a fan happened to sneak in a camera for the curtain call?

                            We're not smarter than previous generations of wrestling fans, but there are a hell of a lot fewer of us.



                            Sent from my SM-G930P using Operation Sports mobile app
                            I just see this like I seen it with most sports; a "back in my day" type rant. The product ain't meant for us, man. Us older generation types. I would love for WWE to not book storylines in a vacuum, pay more attention to tag teams, be more patient with their storyline, and get rid of Cole on commentary. I would be all in if they did those. But nothing they do today will compare to Mankind winning his first belt, The Rock going corporate, the higher power storyline, SCSA with the beer truck, etc.

                            WWE ain't going anywhere, man. If nothing else, I say the product is still 10x better than it was just 3-5 years ago.


                            Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
                            Originally posted by Mo
                            Just once I'd like to be the one they call a jerk off.
                            Originally posted by Mo
                            You underestimate my laziness
                            Originally posted by Mo
                            **** ya


                            ...

                            Comment

                            • Majingir
                              Moderator
                              • Apr 2005
                              • 47669

                              #6239
                              Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

                              Speaking of past eras and all that in WWE...I wanna re-watch past years of RAW/SD stuff, but that just seems like so much to do. Even with no commercials and skipping the matches/segments featuring superstars I don't care for, it still might take 2-3 hours to watch a weeks worth of RAW/SDs. How do people manage to do it/bingewatch the amount of episodes people watch?

                              Too bad we can't get the shows like Bottom Line/Afterburn. 1 hour recaps of RAW/SD each week. I mostly just wanna watch all the storylines, but I know unlike todays WWE, even the matches on RAW/SD are great and have meaning/storyline progression in them so I can't skip matches or anything either.

                              Comment

                              • adembroski
                                49ers
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 5829

                                #6240
                                Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread

                                Originally posted by SmashMan
                                Does "be a guy that sees wrestling as it was intended" mean to be a fan that analyzes their financials, ratings history, and backstage gossip? I'm trying to see how that sentence and your other paragraphs co-exist.

                                Seeing it as it was intended is cheering a face, booing a heel, and being invested enough to buy a ticket to see the show. That's your/my/our role in this circus; if we want to go along as it was intended.

                                Not going to get into the fan superiority thing because I don't think anyone's actually making that argument and I'm not even sure your definition. Is it an age thing? Or based on the era?




                                Sent from my iPad using Operation Sports
                                Others analyze, I consume and, when relevant, repeat.

                                When MLB was failing in the late '90s, did we not discuss it's financials and ratings history? If the NFL began failing, would we not discuss how and why it were happening. That's at utterly ridiculous retort.

                                Sent from my SM-G930P using Operation Sports mobile app
                                There are two types of people on OS: Those who disagree with me, and those who agree.

                                The first kind is wrong. The second is superfluous.

                                The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.
                                -Mark Twain.

                                Comment

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