VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

[jpdavis82]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

1. Madden has been being built off this core engine a lot longer than a year, I don't care who has or hasn't been on the current development team.

2. See the answer Clint gave for why they won't add bad snaps, and for similar reasons line penalties. If they won't add any thing that takes user control out of the hands of the tourney players, the NFL will quit existing as a league before we get a true simulation of the sport.

I get that you don't care who has been building it but this team is overhauling the game from the ground up. Rex is even saying he takes responsibility for the current state of the game even though he wasnt even around until last year. They haven't even started working on the overhaul until gen 4 which nobody has even seen or played yet.

What Clint gave an example of was the one instance of not doing something because of tournament players but he actually said they still will try to add that once they resolve a workaround.

As far as Madden 15 being "the game" yes I still believe it will because I believe people will be blown away by it even if it doesn't have very single element to the game of football in it just yet.

Every time I hear a interview with Rex I become more confident that they're the right guys for the job. I really don't understand how hearing a interview like this or the one on the sim perspective can be taken as a negative. I think Madden 25 gen 4 will be the most realistic Madden to date and it's only going to get better from now on. This is the tip of the iceberg, I still want to hear what Kolbe has in mind for the game too.

[BenGerman]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

Just got done reading the whole thing.

Basically, what is coming up a lot is, "why should we add these specific features (ie Signature Animations) when the rest of the core gameplay isn't where we want it to be? Or why would we work on a halftime show when we aren't yet happy with our current presentation?"

So then why aren't we seeing improvements in the core gameplay, and the core presentation? If those are the things you want to improve, then go improve them! You can't just say that you want to focus on the core gameplay at the expense of things like signature animations, and then not have a whole lot to offer as far as core gameplay goes. So far we have: 1 (2, if we're lucky?) player on the field will have semi-realistic running tendencies and movement, and 300 new animations at the line.... That's it.

I'm not going to compare this game to The Show, or NBA 2K because it doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence right now. But everyone here knows how long the list of "core gameplay" improvements is with those two games (two games, mind you, that are much better to begin with). I remember last year with MLB: The Show '13, there was a list of about 100 things being changed in the game. So far, I've come up with two things involving gameplay, two things involving presentation, and zero things being added to the existing features.

I don't know what else to say at this stage. I want EA to succeed really, really badly. But it doesn't look like they are going about it in the right way at all.

PS: I sympathize with the current Madden team. They were handed a trashy game, and a sport that people are really passionate about. But forgive me if I'm a little out of patience with the whole "just give it time, we'll be where we want to be two years from now" stuff. Haven't we been there/done that? The last thing I ever want to hear about again is some kind of three year plan.

[TheBuddyHobbs]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

I seriously don't understand how people can compare the movement of 10 people on a court to 22 players with different positions. They're apples and oranges. NBA 2k is in a much better place than Madden because they have had what 8 years of quality work before now? Madden has been in a bad spot for years due to the crappy foundation it was built on. The game is finally getting the overhaul it desperately needs so badly and people think it can be done in a year.:0

An overhaul would have been building a new engine with an entirely new animations system for next-gen. 2k did for NBA 2k14 so no reason EA couldn't have done the same for Madden. Madden is the game that desperately needs it more than other sports game. Yet they failed to deliver and decided to stick with a poorly coded engine. Which says one of two things. They are either lazy or don't have the talent to do so.

[jpdavis82]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

Just got done reading the whole thing.

Basically, what is coming up a lot is, "why should we add these specific features (ie Signature Animations) when the rest of the core gameplay isn't where we want it to be? Or why would we work on a halftime show when we aren't yet happy with our current presentation?"

So then why aren't we seeing improvements in the core gameplay, and the core presentation? If those are the things you want to improve, then go improve them! You can't just say that you want to focus on the core gameplay at the expense of things like signature animations, and then not have a whole lot to offer as far as core gameplay goes. So far we have: 1 (2, if we're lucky?) player on the field will have semi-realistic running tendencies and movement, and 300 new animations at the line.... That's it.

I'm not going to compare this game to The Show, or NBA 2K because it doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence right now. But everyone here knows how long the list of "core gameplay" improvements is with those two games (two games, mind you, that are much better to begin with). I remember last year with MLB: The Show '13, there was a list of about 100 things being changed in the game. So far, I've come up with two things involving gameplay, two things involving presentation, and zero things being added to the existing features.

I don't know what else to say at this stage. I want EA to succeed really, really badly. But it doesn't look like they are going about it in the right way at all.

Why should they add those things? I agree with him, the reason MLB and NBA 2k look so realistic is their animation quality, Madden's doesn't touch that yet so they have to get it top notch like he said. Why would anyone want Peyton Manning's signature style if the animation looks bad, if the ball magically flies from his hands to the WR who cares if it looks like Manning's throwing motion???? Why have a signature running style when the HB is sliding across the field and not planting with weight and momentum???

[BenGerman]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

Why should they add those things? I agree with him, the reason MLB and NBA 2k look so realistic is their animation quality, Madden's doesn't touch that yet so they have to get it top notch like he said. Why would anyone want Peyton Manning's signature style if the animation looks bad, if the ball magically flies from his hands to the WR who cares if it looks like Manning's throwing motion???? Why have a signature running style when the HB is sliding across the field and not planting with weight and momentum???

If I saw in any way, shape, or form that they were working on core animations in the first place, I would agree with you. The fact is, I don't care a whole lot about signature animations right now. But it's a dumb excuse to give when they aren't making an effort to make the baseline animations look any better than they do now.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

I get that you don't care who has been building it but this team is overhauling the game from the ground up. Rex is even saying he takes responsibility for the current state of the game even though he wasnt even around until last year. They haven't even started working on the overhaul until gen 4 which nobody has even seen or played yet.

What Clint gave an example of was the one instance of not doing something because of tournament players but he actually said they still will try to add that once they resolve a workaround.

As far as Madden 15 being "the game" yes I still believe it will because I believe people will be blown away by it even if it doesn't have very single element to the game of football in it just yet.

Every time I hear a interview with Rex I become more confident that they're the right guys for the job. I really don't understand how hearing a interview like this or the one on the sim perspective can be taken as a negative. I think Madden 25 gen 4 will be the most realistic Madden to date and it's only going to get better from now on. This is the tip of the iceberg, I still want to hear what Kolbe has in mind for the game too.

What he actually said was "When we are able to come up with a mechanic to give the user some control over that, it's something we may look at"

You can't give users control over bad snaps. How the hell would that even work? It's the same philosophy for Madden development as it's always been. They will make the game realistic, unless it costs the tourney guys user control... even if its something they shouldn't have control over, then they'll go arcade.

[jpdavis82]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

An overhaul would have been building a new engine with an entirely new animations system for next-gen. 2k did for NBA 2k14 so no reason EA couldn't have done the same for Madden. Madden is the game that desperately needs it more than other sports game. Yet they failed to deliver and decided to stick with a poorly coded engine. Which says one of two things. They are either lazy or don't have the talent to do so.

Lol so in 2005 they make a new engine and create Madden 06 with a new engine that puts us in a hole for 8 years.

Now in 2013 they try to avoid that and people wonder why they didn't just build a new engine????

So then what would you say if they had built a new engine and it took them years just to get where they are now with gen 4 Madden?

NBA 2k may have a new player motion engine but nobody can honestly say that it is a brand new game, it is almost exactly like current gen except there's foot planting and better graphics.

[TheBuddyHobbs]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

If I saw in any way, shape, or form that they were working on core animations in the first place, I would agree with you. The fact is, I don't care a whole lot about signature animations right now. But it's a dumb excuse to give when they aren't making an effort to make the baseline animations look any better than they do now.

It doesn't make sense to me how they want to get the throwing animations right before doing signature animations. Why wouldn't they go hand in hand at the same time? I just don't see how it could takes years to fix both. Both of these things should be able to make it in the same game at the same time. Maybe they are saving it for a back of the box feature eh?

[TheBuddyHobbs]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

Lol so in 2005 they make a new engine and create Madden 06 with a new engine that puts us in a hole for 8 years.

Now in 2013 they try to avoid that and people wonder why they didn't just build a new engine????

So then what would you say if they had built a new engine and it took them years just to get where they are now with gen 4 Madden?

NBA 2k may have a new player motion engine but nobody can honestly say that it is a brand new game, it is almost exactly like current gen except there's foot planting and better graphics.

So you are saying the engine they created for the 360/ps3 gen was bad right? So how can you make a good game with a bad engine? If you have a poorly coded engine it makes no sense to continue to use it for another 8 years. I'm not trying to insult you, but man dude you are a flip flopper. I don't know how you can defend them after this interview. It was nothing but another 3 year plan without directly saying it's apart of a 3 year plan. How many 3 year plans do we need to go through to get a good game?

[radatdude2]

VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

I seriously don't understand how people can compare the movement of 10 people on a court to 22 players with different positions. They're apples and oranges. NBA 2k is in a much better place than Madden because they have had what 8 years of quality work before now? Madden has been in a bad spot for years due to the crappy foundation it was built on. The game is finally getting the overhaul it desperately needs so badly and people think it can be done in a year.:0

What dude you have to compare! its not 2k basketballs fault they only have 10 people on the court they took the sport they have and made the best game they possibly could and I think they did a great job. BTW don't forgot the reactions of the players on the bench IMO move better then some of the players on the field in madden. So please! because look at what 2k5 accomplished, things madden next gen still can't do and it makes people wonder what if. And give me a break with the we expect change in one year as far as I'm concerned the game has been in rebuilding since 09 when Ian took over so I don't feel bad for Rex he's getting paid he knew what the position he signed up for involved. In closing hey if the game won't be done until madden 18 and the current release is half baked then give me a discounted price tag but if your charging full price I EXPECT a complete game bottom line and if its not I have a right to complain cause we don't have an alternate option for a nfl licensed game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

[N51_rob]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

Yeah focusing on football fundamentals and a realistic representation of football sounds awful.....

Are you serious right now?!?!? Weren't you just let back into the community from a ban for this type of crap. LBZ is one of the most respected voices on OS as far as sim gameplay goes. He was a member of community days long before there were game changers. You are WAY out of line with this. Consider this YOUR LAST WARNING! You attack another poster in this manner you will be banned and it will be permanent this time.

So this way you can't say you were banned for nothing and never given a warning. You are on extremely thin ice right now.

[jpdavis82]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

Are you serious right now?!?!? Weren't you just let back into the community from a ban for this type of crap. LBZ is one of the most respected voices on OS as far as sim gameplay goes. He was a member of community days long before there were game changers. You are WAY out of line with this. Consider this YOUR LAST WARNING! You attack another poster in this manner you will be banned and it will be permanent this time.

So this way you can't say you were banned for nothing and never given a warning. You are on extremely thin ice right now.

I was in no way attacking him, sorry if you took it that way. I'm just not going to say anything any more because it always is taken the wrong way. Last time I said something it was out of line but this wasnt directed towards any one person, and it was said in a sarcastic manner. I've spent hours here trying to get the community the most information possible and my posts get taken to the woodshed and I don't get personal with people on here so I really don't understand it but if it's coming across that way I apologize and I'm moving on. Most people here respect me whether they agree or not with what I'm saying.

I never intend to personally attack anyone though so I again apologize to anyone on here if you've felt attacked by me by what I have said.

[raiders81tim]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

What is a complete game? Did you not buy NBA 2k because the ball was attached to the players hand or be aide you couldn't block dunks until 2k14 and even then the ball is still attached to the players hands on next gen.

I agree that they shouldn't make exceptions for tournament players as a reason not to add something, but that was the only instance they are doing that. Their goal and focus is football fundamentals and simulation of the sport. No other football video game has bad snaps and I guarantee everyone on here complaining about them still bought football games even though bad snaps weren't in.

No other football game will have the offensive and defensive line play that Madden is going to and for the most part already does on next gen but nobody wants to talk about things like that. Nobody wants to talk about how this will be the FIRST football game to have realistic blocking and double team pass blocking based on logic not just pre determined animations. Up until now double team pass blocking was based on animation not a realistic ai system, that goes for every company ever to make a football video game.

What these guys are talking about doing is so much deeper than people realize and were so used to things being half way done that people just assume that's what they're going to do but I mean Clint went in and redid every pass and run plays blocking for next gen, that is quite an impressive feat IMO. On top of that they added over 300 pass rush animations and True Step for more than just the ball carrier, for the defensive players as well, with realistic back pedals.

Correct me of I'm wrong but NBA 2k has foot planting and what else new for next gen gameplay, I think wing spans which are nice, but hardly a laundry list of improvements to core gameplay. Most of their improvements were in the presentation department not core gameplay.

I know that Madden gets an unfair shake due to their track record but we have to be honest when we compare these games and what other games are adding each dev cycle compared to what these guys are planning to add in the next few years.

These guys are focused on quality over quantity and I don't think we'll ever see the game we're wanting any other way.

I know I'm not the only one who feels encouraged by Rex and Cam and the work they're trying to accomplish for the sim community.

NBA 2K isn't getting many gameplay upgrades, because it doesn't need them. Defense and passing was its major issue for a while now, and is fixed in current gen already.

While Madden in terms of on the field gameplay didn't get a single thing correct this generation. I honestly can't name one thing they nailed down in terms of gameplay.

EA Sports in general just isn't very talented. It's competition proves that year after year.

[jpdavis82]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

NBA 2K isn't getting many gameplay upgrades, because it doesn't need them. Defense and passing was its major issue for a while now, and is fixed in current gen already.

While Madden in terms of on the field gameplay didn't get a single thing correct this generation. I honestly can't name one thing they nailed down in terms of gameplay.

EA Sports in general just isn't very talented. It's competition proves that year after year.

NBA does have a good foundation I agree

[TheBuddyHobbs]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

I agree that JP does do a good job keeping us up to date and informed. I also appreciate the writing up the scripts of interviews.