CFM Rookies Not Adjusted To Stock Player Scale (EA Is Investigating)

[Dwaresacksqb]

Re: CFM rookies not adjusted to Stock Player Scale

Really have my fingers crossed for franchise mode this year. Madden has taken huge strides in 16. If they nail it for us Sim guys I'll be one happy camper.

[MooseBoyJ]

Re: CFM rookies not adjusted to Stock Player Scale

Rooks coming in better than established players.... sounds like Madden. WRS with Usain Bolt speed a concern? I only got thru 6 seasons this year with my league but by the end EVERY team had 3-4 95 speed DBS and WRs. To quote one of my favorite villans,"When everyone is super, No one will be."

[Toupal]

Re: CFM rookies not adjusted to Stock Player Scale

I know I waste my breathe every time I say it, but why why why why why did they ever remove the feature to edit players within a CFM/ dynasty?

Madden is by far the worst sporting game when it comes to a franchise like mode after the first year.

[Mike Lowe]

Re: CFM rookies not adjusted to Stock Player Scale

I guarantee something like this gets patched a lot quicker if people don't purchase it like Lemmings walking off a cliff next Tuesday.

I'm curious to see how it goes the next few days. Unfortunately us in the sim community are in the minority--I cannot believe how many people are streaming MUT and silly "Pack Opening!" sessions. I just don't see the fun in that, but to each their own.

[Sheba2011]

Re: CFM rookies not adjusted to Stock Player Scale

I think we'd be better off twitter shaming them into submission.

EDIT: How many people are you going to get to not buy the game? 10, 50, 100? 1000? They won't feel it. Shame them and they will patch it to avoid bad PR.

Is that really called for? They have already said they will look into, let's wait and see what they come up with before acting like children. This current dev team has been open and honest with the community all along.

[BestServedCold]

Re: CFM rookies not adjusted to Stock Player Scale

Is that really called for? They have already said they will look into, let's wait and see what they come up with before acting like children. This current dev team has been open and honest with the community all along.

At this point, no, as they have already looked at it, but as a means of protesting, social media is far more effective then not buying the game. They really aren't going to notice a few people not buying the game. I should have mentioned that they were on it. I am very happy with how they have handled the situation at this point, although they should have had the foresight to realize that the scale was broken (we all knew it was going to happen). Sorry to imply that we would need to do it at this point although it might make them include it in a day one patch.

[ajk49er]

Re: CFM rookies not adjusted to Stock Player Scale

yes. it is totally necessary. why is it necessary? because we get the same song and dance every year. they will fix it, IF they do it takes MONTHS.


some of this stuff BREAKS CCM. its very frustrating to have a list of maybe...25 things that are flat out broken with this game, or just something that should have been changed 10 years ago(or was actually better 10 years ago) and every year they remain to be a major problem


draft classes are not only rated wrong, but the equipment is terrible as it is every year, no matter the system the game is on, no matter who is making the game.


yes. they should be shamed for this stuff.

[D13]

Re: CFM rookies not adjusted to Stock Player Scale

yes. it is totally necessary. why is it necessary? because we get the same song and dance every year. they will fix it, IF they do it takes MONTHS.


some of this stuff BREAKS CCM. its very frustrating to have a list of maybe...25 things that are flat out broken with this game, or just something that should have been changed 10 years ago(or was actually better 10 years ago) and every year they remain to be a major problem


draft classes are not only rated wrong, but the equipment is terrible as it is every year, no matter the system the game is on, no matter who is making the game.


yes. they should be shamed for this stuff.

TOTALLY AGREE!! Exploit them for what they really are.

Money talks. They haven't put in the time OR effort for CCM that MUT and this new "draft champions" mode has gotten.

I was gonna say it's unbelievable but it's really not. EA is focused on what brings them the most $ and nobody can fault them for that, but shame on them for not making a complete product.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sheba2011]

Re: CFM rookies not adjusted to Stock Player Scale

At this point, no, as they have already looked at it, but as a means of protesting, social media is far more effective then not buying the game. They really aren't going to notice a few people not buying the game. I should have mentioned that they were on it. I am very happy with how they have handled the situation at this point, although they should have had the foresight to realize that the scale was broken (we all knew it was going to happen). Sorry to imply that we would need to do it at this point although it might make them include it in a day one patch.

I agree Social Media is one of the best voices the consumer has. As someone who works in marketing for a fortune 500 global company I can tell you first hand it is one of the things we fear most. Negative PR on Social Media can spread like a wildfire. But at this point they are looking into it, and I can't remember in the past EA being this quick to interact with the community and look into issues before the game is even launched. We should give them a chance despite what the history of past releases are. So far Rex has been open and honest with everyone.

[ajk49er]

Re: CFM rookies not adjusted to Stock Player Scale

how honest are they being? this issue was raised months ago as a potential problem


we can go back to every year telling us how they would look into the equipment, or the bad ratings on THEIR OWN draft classes. its the same thing. how soon people forget 80 speed corners with LB/DL elite skills in M25. I mean seriously, do they even test this stuff beyond a single season? not even getting into the race thing because it will totally be brought up when you draft some white guy with red hair who looks like DJ Swearinger with a Revo Helmet and a white wristband.

[ryan36]

Re: CFM rookies not adjusted to Stock Player Scale

Guys, I understand the criticism here... indeed it seems like a problem that would stink if true. But please watch your tone

Saying things like people "buy the game like lemmings" and planning to launch an anti-EA smear campaign aren't things that we'll tolerate here on OS.

What OS is good for is what has actually happened here. The dev team is looking into it. CM is testing it.

To say "Why didn't EA see such and such a thread" isn't helpful; the dev team can't read every thread in this forum... they're designing a game. Check the TOS in Steve's forum on dev bashing if you're unfamiliar with what we expect. Please take this is a blanket warning to keep this thread civil

[Hooe]

Re: CFM rookies not adjusted to Stock Player Scale

So it turns out Madden NFL 16 simulates seasons in cloud CFM really quickly. As such I've already got some data for you all, only took about an hour total. It's taken me longer to type this post than it took to gather the data, lol.

I focused on two ratings that have come up a lot at the start of this thread - WR SPD and QB DAC. I also added in WR ACC for good measure.

For these three position-rating combinations, here's some useful statistical info for them (these numbers computed using the ratings from the Madden NFL 16 base roster spreadsheet EA released on their web site):

RATING    μ        σ      μ-σ    μ+σ
WR SPD    88.2     3.5    84.7   91.7
WR ACC    89.9     2.4    87.5   92.3
QB DAC    63.6     5.9    57.7   69.4

A quick brush-up of terms: μ is the average (also the mean), σ is the standard deviation. μ-σ and μ+σ are numbers each one standard deviation away from the mean; it's expected that about two thirds of the ratings used to calculate μ and σ will fall between these two extremes, assuming that the ratings fall over a normal distribution.

Having these numbers in hand, I created a cloud Connected Franchise, playing as a coach, turned off coach firings, and simulated ten seasons twice in a row. In year 2035 of this CFM, there are the same computations for the same ratings:

RATING    μ        σ      μ-σ    μ+σ
WR SPD    91.3     4.6    86.7   95.9
WR ACC    86.7     5.8    80.9   92.5
QB DAC    75.6     5.8    69.8   81.4

And finally, I subtract the original 2015 numbers from the 2035 numbers to visualize the change:

RATING    Δμ      Δσ     Δ(μ-σ)    Δ(μ+σ)
WR SPD    3.1     1.1    2.6       4.2
WR ACC   -3.2     3.4   -6.6       0.2
QB DAC    12.0   -0.1    12.1      12

Plain-text English explanation of what's happening / what these numbers mean:

After a twenty-year period of CFM simulation in this game save, the average _top speed_ of all wide receivers in the game increased marginally. The standard deviation also rose, indicating a wider variety of speed ratings amongst all the players. This is pretty evident at the top of the scale - there are 29 WRs with 97+ SPD.

Simultaneously, in the same 20-year simulation, the average ACC rating for receivers fell marginally, and virtually the same amount as SPD rose. The game still hands out a good number of high ratings here - there are fourteen WRs with 97+ ACC - but also more low ratings, relatively speaking - there are 71 WRs with ACC at 83 or less, while there are exactly three such players on the default Madden NFL 16 roster. It also appears that 80 is the lowest rating the game will hand out to a generated rookie at WR, and there are no CPU-rostered players with stupidly low SPD or ACC ratings, as would happen in Madden NFL 15.

In effect, what you have going on at the wide receiver position over time is that the population of available receivers indeed has a higher top speed and straight-line speed, but less short-area athleticism. I probably need to do this analysis for WR AGI in order to capture the full picture here, but honestly I don't think this incredibly offensive. I imagine that people are going to be upset over the greater frequency of higher speed ratings, but I see it as an increase in variance with respect to the caliber of available athletes at the position.

QB DAC is a different story, this is something I think Tiburon should consider adjusting if consistency with the base roster is something they feel is important to CFM. That rating is indeed rising dramatically over time. 29 passers have DAC 80 or greater (there is one QB who tops 90 DAC). Compared to the default roster which has 19 players with a DAC of 70 or greater and only two players who crack 80 (Aaron Rodgers and Matt Ryan). The floor for the players with the worst DAC ratings also rises an alarming level; while there are 30 players on the default roster with a DAC rating of 59 or less and 101 with a DAC rating of 69 or less, there is not a single rostered QB in the 2035 league with a DAC rating less than 64 and only 16 with a DAC rating of 69 or less.

One caveat - this doesn't identify where the problem is. I paid no attention to rookie classes, I literally hit the "sim ten years" option twice. It's possible - though I'd say unlikely, given how much the minimum rating is rising - that the rise in QB DAC over time is caused by an imbalance in upgrade package XP cost for that rating.

Anyway, if anyone wants to see any more ratings analyses like these, I'll keep this CFM file around and can probably take a small handful of requests for additional ratings to look at if y'all would like. I imagine that the CFM servers will get wiped at official launch on Tuesday, so bear that in mind.

All this said, I'm personally still looking forward to playing CFM, I always have fun playing it and I don't really find anything in here particularly offensive under Madden NFL's current player ratings philosophy. I do hope this post finds its way to someone at Tiburon and provides them with one data point which could be helpful in their making any decisions with respect to CFM rookie generation / player progression balance adjustments.

[ajk49er]

Re: CFM rookies not adjusted to Stock Player Scale

oh, no smear campaign here.


but to point out issues with the game that you have pointed out on this forum, and elsewhere, for years, and have heard others do the same on youtube ETC, for years...that IS supposed to be helpful. you hear the devs comment on how they read operation sports. maybe at some point they will realize that there are major problems with their draft classes...as for the game itself, I already bought it, that isn't the problem...a broken CCM is a problem.


really appreciate the analysis above, but are you factoring in the insane drop in speed/ACC you see when players age? this would account for the average being less drastic. I bet if factoring in only starters, one would see a major discrepancy. just a thought-

[BestServedCold]

Re: CFM rookies not adjusted to Stock Player Scale

Saying things like people "buy the game like lemmings" and planning to launch an anti-EA smear campaign aren't things that we'll tolerate here on OS.

As I have said, I was merely suggesting that taking to twitter would be more effective than not buying the game. I'm not sure a "smear campaign" is the right word. We wouldn't be attacking EA, we would be forcing them to look at the issue or take the PR hit. Vocal dissent is something that is needed in every community or the community will stagnate. With that said, I will delete the post if that is possible as it is an unnecessary action considering EA knows about the issue. If you look back another page you will see that I reposted EA's response. I will reiterate that I am impressed that they actually listened to us albeit they should have caught this before. I am really surprised that they don't do what CM Hooe has done.

EDIT: I was thinking of a hashtag something along the lines of #fixCFM, which I think we can agree isn't smearing them, but encouraging change. Again though, they have finally caught the issue, so it would be pointless now.


Also, thank you CM Hooe for doing the legwork. I really hope someone from EA looks at your data and forwards the information to the dev team so that they can make the appropriate changes.

[lowndsy]

Re: CFM rookies not adjusted to Stock Player Scale

Great post above from Hooe! Now in the time you have done this and spotted this issue why oh why have EA not. I am very positive about there product this year very. But really they could of spotted this by doing what you have as a simple test baffling.