As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

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  • ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    MVP
    • Dec 2009
    • 4682

    #391
    Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

    Originally posted by Toupal
    I get that completely. But by that point, I can promise you that several of my friends who buy the game will no longer be playing it. So I will just borrow/ steal it from them.
    Oh I see. Yes that is even better.
    Originally posted by Therebelyell626
    I am going to create a team called "the happy town fundament rapscallions" and hurt your already diminishing image
    https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2049813056

    Last edited by your mom; 06-06-2006 at 6:06 PM.

    Comment

    • RogerDodger
      MVP
      • Sep 2016
      • 1082

      #392
      Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

      Originally posted by kehlis
      Boycotting buying the game is great and I truly mean it when I say that I applaud you for the effort but it's important to understand that it is something that has a minimal impact.

      This entire site could bow out on buying the game and it wouldn't mean anything.

      You have always been great about pointing out the positives AND the negatives in the right way so the truth is you could actually add more value to the future of the game by playing it and offering more feedback than not playing it.

      This truly goes back to us all being in this together. If you don't want to spend the money on the game out of principle, that is perfectly understandable.

      The truth is though, you are more valuable to the community if you've played the game rather than if you haven't.
      In terms of raw sales you are undoubtedly correct, sales impact would be next to nothing. The symbolic fact that the community for a leading sports gaming site boycotted the game would be something somebody at EA would have to answer to. Whether that was to the media or management, who knows.

      Comment

      • JayhawkerStL
        Banned
        • Apr 2004
        • 3644

        #393
        Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

        What if the telemetry EA has collected since the PS2/360 era showed that the more detailed and deep the franchise was the less it was played? What if the most popular mode they have drove the bulk of their customers to move on to other games, making it less likely they would be annual purchasers of the game?

        What if focus groups have shown them that the mere existence of deeper franchise tools turn off these customers, who now feel that they are being punished for not caring about the finer points of team building?

        If you were the publisher, what would you do? Would you cater to the small, but vocal group that demands features that they feel hurt sales, or the much, much larger base that just wants to play the game?

        Would you cater to the small, but vocal, group that will complain every year about how bad the game is, because, seriously, no matter how close it gets, it only makes what misses sim that more glaring, or would you cater to the much, much larger group that thinks the notion of organizing a boycott is ridiculous?

        Because, while it is fun to characterize EA as evil or lazy, the reality is that they are extremely data driven. What they choose to do with their game reflects the telemetry they get each year.


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

        Comment

        • Cowboy008
          MVP
          • Mar 2012
          • 4574

          #394
          Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

          Originally posted by JayhawkerStL
          What if the telemetry EA has collected since the PS2/360 era showed that the more detailed and deep the franchise was the less it was played? What if the most popular mode they have drove the bulk of their customers to move on to other games, making it less likely they would be annual purchasers of the game?

          What if focus groups have shown them that the mere existence of deeper franchise tools turn off these customers, who now feel that they are being punished for not caring about the finer points of team building?

          If you were the publisher, what would you do? Would you cater to the small, but vocal group that demands features that they feel hurt sales, or the much, much larger base that just wants to play the game?

          Would you cater to the small, but vocal, group that will complain every year about how bad the game is, because, seriously, no matter how close it gets, it only makes what misses sim that more glaring, or would you cater to the much, much larger group that thinks the notion of organizing a boycott is ridiculous?

          Because, while it is fun to characterize EA as evil or lazy, the reality is that they are extremely data driven. What they choose to do with their game reflects the telemetry they get each year.


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          They could still make the franchise mode deeper for the people that want it like that and then for the much larger base that just wants to play the game EA could do what they are doing now with Madden 18 and let those people just switch it so the cpu will handle everything and they can just play the game.

          Comment

          • DipDipDoug
            Banned
            • Aug 2017
            • 8

            #395
            Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

            well theres not much we can do they have the license after all

            Comment

            • aholbert32
              (aka Alberto)
              • Jul 2002
              • 33106

              #396
              Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

              Originally posted by DipDipDoug
              well theres not much we can do they have the license after all
              You can choose to not buy the game.

              Comment

              • cam21224
                MVP
                • Jun 2008
                • 2033

                #397
                Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

                Originally posted by aholbert32
                You can choose to not buy the game.
                That's kinda of hard to do for football junkies with this being the only football game and all.

                Personally I haven't brought madden in what would be three years, I wait for it to hit EA access.

                I believe they are headed in the right direction but some key things still need fixing like the topic of this thread, some keys things still missing like a revamped challenge system better offline cfm.

                What sucks is by the time it's close to getting there will get a new dev team and be right back at square one.
                Horseshoes & HollyWood

                Comment

                • aholbert32
                  (aka Alberto)
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 33106

                  #398
                  Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

                  Originally posted by cam21224
                  That's kinda of hard to do for football junkies with this being the only football game and all.

                  Personally I haven't brought madden in what would be three years, I wait for it to hit EA access.

                  I believe they are headed in the right direction but some key things still need fixing like the topic of this thread, some keys things still missing like a revamped challenge system better offline cfm.

                  What sucks is by the time it's close to getting there will get a new dev team and be right back at square one.

                  Hard, sure but if you are upset with the direction the game is going, buying the game isnt going to encourage EA to make those changes.

                  I'm happy with the direction the game is going so I buy it. I wouldnt if I wasnt.

                  Comment

                  • mooch49
                    Pro
                    • Oct 2003
                    • 915

                    #399
                    Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

                    In regard to computer quarterback play, has anyone tried messing with edits. For quarterbacks, there are 3 categories that can influence their decisions. For example, I would think we would want to change all QB's trait to throw away to yes. That could mean less sacks. Just curious if editing traits has been tested, and if so what would be the recommendations.

                    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

                    Comment

                    • Toupal
                      MVP
                      • May 2014
                      • 1296

                      #400
                      Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

                      Originally posted by aholbert32
                      You can choose to not buy the game.
                      Boycott!!!

                      Comment

                      • DeuceDouglas
                        Madden Dev Team
                        • Apr 2010
                        • 4297

                        #401
                        Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

                        Here's another really bad one I had last night:

                        <iframe src='https://gfycat.com/ifr/VioletCompassionateHarlequinbug' frameborder='0' scrolling='no' allowfullscreen width='640' height='360'></iframe>

                        I've been noticing more pocket movement although it's quite erratic and not very intelligent at all. Here's another play from the same game:

                        Spoiler


                        Not as bad and he did evade but it's something I've seen a decent amount of also and that's the QB's running straight backwards. If Winston immediately moves to his right, Jones who tackled the running back isn't really a factor. But because Winston runs straight backwards it allows him to get back up and actually get the sack.

                        Comment

                        • Big FN Deal
                          Banned
                          • Aug 2011
                          • 5993

                          #402
                          Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

                          Originally posted by JayhawkerStL
                          What if the telemetry EA has collected since the PS2/360 era showed that the more detailed and deep the franchise was the less it was played?
                          Spoiler



                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                          Wow, so much I'd like to post in response to this but no need, I'll just sum it up with, they can do what other publishers have successfully done with games that have much deeper "franchise" modes. The sentiment or impression from posts like this baffle me because they seem to require ignoring or being unaware of what has been successfully done in the football gaming genre and what's still being successfully done in other sports gaming genres.
                          Originally posted by DipDipDoug
                          well theres not much we can do they have the license after all
                          Absolutely correct, nothing we can do about this situation, not buying changes nothing, Madden still would be what it is. Imo, the suggestion to "not buy" or more specifically to not play/bother with Madden marginalizes dissent in the discussion. One of the first things that would be said to attempt to invalidate Madden criticism would be something like "you don't even play the game". So I'll at least play Madden every year, without buying new or paying full price, as long as it's the only current NFL game available, not only for the chance that maybe at some point it's football better enough for me to enjoy but also because I choose to try to have some game play exposure to a game I discuss.

                          As far as the CPU QB play goes, what I find odd is, I seem to recall the matter of CPU play calling in game plans, CPU QB play in player tendencies, player ratings and various slider sets as something that's been discussed and put out there for EA TIb from the community for many years. When advocating for a simulation setting, I've repeatedly suggested that at the least EA TIb put slider set creators, game plan adjusters, etc all together in a beta test of sorts, to see what they could come up with. I'm not trying to oversimplify this issue, I just wonder how much certain things like this could be diminished if EA co-opted many of these type of gamers in the community that work diligently on this stuff in their free time and who's main motivation is a better football experience.

                          Comment

                          • capa
                            Banned
                            • Jul 2002
                            • 5321

                            #403
                            Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

                            Originally posted by Big FN Deal
                            Wow, so much I'd like to post in response to this but no need, I'll just sum it up with, they can do what other publishers have successfully done with games that have much deeper "franchise" modes. The sentiment or impression from posts like this baffle me because they seem to require ignoring or being unaware of what has been successfully done in the football gaming genre and what's still being successfully done in other sports gaming genres.


                            Absolutely correct, nothing we can do about this situation, not buying changes nothing, Madden still would be what it is. Imo, the suggestion to "not buy" or more specifically to not play/bother with Madden marginalizes dissent in the discussion. One of the first things that would be said to attempt to invalidate Madden criticism would be something like "you don't even play the game". So I'll at least play Madden every year, without buying new or paying full price, as long as it's the only current NFL game available, not only for the chance that maybe at some point it's football better enough for me to enjoy but also because I choose to try to have some game play exposure to a game I discuss.

                            As far as the CPU QB play goes, what I find odd is, I seem to recall the matter of CPU play calling in game plans, CPU QB play in player tendencies, player ratings and various slider sets as something that's been discussed and put out there for EA TIb from the community for many years. When advocating for a simulation setting, I've repeatedly suggested that at the least EA TIb put slider set creators, game plan adjusters, etc all together in a beta test of sorts, to see what they could come up with. I'm not trying to oversimplify this issue, I just wonder how much certain things like this could be diminished if EA co-opted many of these type of gamers in the community that work diligently on this stuff in their free time and who's main motivation is a better football experience.
                            I agree with much of what you said.

                            My take on this is rather simple. They don't want to. Not that they are not aware of the CPU shortcomings in QB play and play calling, etc...they of course are aware. They do not want to fix it.

                            Why? That's for them to know and for us to speculate on. Many reasons I am sure. But after how many years now have we been asking for this? Five? Ten? Twenty? I think the answer lays in their non-action.

                            They don't want to take this on. They will make small "tweaks" which they hope alleviate most of the problem in QB CPU play, but they don't want to make the CPU AI, play selection, etc more true to life and "real."

                            If they wanted to, they would have by now. They don't want to do it..regardless of how often their pre-release interviews and blogs reference simulation and making the game as close to what you see on Sunday as possible.

                            Comment

                            • SyncereBlackout
                              Rookie
                              • Aug 2014
                              • 828

                              #404
                              Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

                              Originally posted by JayhawkerStL

                              Because, while it is fun to characterize EA as evil or lazy, the reality is that they are extremely data driven. What they choose to do with their game reflects the telemetry they get each year.


                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                              If this is true, then does the offline subset of OS make us look even smaller?

                              Legit question: can EA harvest data from people who play offline with local saves.



                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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                              Comment

                              • Madden08PCgmr
                                MVP
                                • Feb 2017
                                • 2441

                                #405
                                Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

                                Originally posted by Cowboy008
                                They could still make the franchise mode deeper for the people that want it like that and then for the much larger base that just wants to play the game EA could do what they are doing now with Madden 18 and let those people just switch it so the cpu will handle everything and they can just play the game.

                                Just give me Franchise Mode as it existed in M2004. That's all I've been asking for.

                                Sell it as an add-on, online content, h@ll, I'll pay for 2 games.

                                Name your price. I'll drop a couple hundred bucks. THATS what it would mean to me.

                                .. and if I am in the minority on this, it sure does seem like a vocal one.


                                Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
                                You want free speech?
                                Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.

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