Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

[Swagger Jack]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Honestly the only bad one is the first. The #2 and #3 are zone coverage and while it wasn't great coverage it wasn't that bad. Fuller should have been better on #2 but players make mistakes. Clips #4 and #5 are guys that are getting beat at the top of the route in man coverage. Defense is a reactionary position so the guys are not going to make the break at the same time as the WR/TE/RB. #4 was Mike Hughes (I believe, hard to see #) and he has 65 awareness. That's not bad reaction time for 65 awareness. #5 was Sproles running a hitch and he is going to get separation on a route like that. Awuzie should've been closer because he is a good player, but again players make mistakes.


#1 where the DB ran the opposite way is clearly a bug. The rest is not far from what you're going to be seeing on a Sunday. Honestly the coverage by Mack in #3 was pretty incredible for a pass rusher. He passed off the first guy once the WR went out of his zone and then he had the awareness to step up and instantly make contact with the WR that entered his zone. I doubt you'll see him consistently play it any better than that in real life.

LMAO nah bro just no, #3 was the only one that was acceptable. You play defense like 2 4 or 5 on Sunday and you’ll find yourself in the 3rd row and a random drug test after the game lol.

[3Tears]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Pass defense was an issue in the beta but you heard Clint say they didn't touch zones. I was getting robo Qb in beta and in EA Access. Only way I've got the CPU to slow down is by lowering CPU QB ACC. That slider does seem to be working this year.

[GameBreaker35]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Correct....in years past Sliders in Madden were indeed reversed. This year they seem to just not work at all.....I’ve Tried sliders at 100/100 0/0 100/0 and 0/100 and obviously default and it has no effect on this issue whatsoever.

It’s my understanding that the sliders adjust the weighting of the dice-roll considerations that govern win/loss animations - not the behavior before animations trigger.

From my time viewing the coverage in replay, seems to be that the defenders aren’t triggering the win/loss animation at the cut like they do in Madden 19. The defender is always in the normal tracking/running animation(bad), but inexplicably starts running towards the wrong direction as well (worse). You can tell when animations are triggered in Madden, and we’re definitely not triggering win/loss animations most of the time.

Here’s a clip from Madden 19 on All-Pro Default:

https://youtu.be/AYkMOFKVcUI

See how the defender animation triggers at the receivers cut. It looks great, and does this consistently.


Here’s a clip from Madden 20 on All-Pro Default:

https://youtu.be/SZhxPQqs5dY

The defender never triggers an animation in all of the attempts that its run. The defender is constantly in the tracking AI.

[deiied]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

The is a world of difference between "pAsS cOveRaGe iS bRoKen!!!!!!" and
"When the Defender gets beat in certain coverages a bad animation plays and moves him further out of coverage".

There have been some good examples of bad losses in this thread but there has also been a lot of hyperbole.

I have been of the opinion that the coverage LOOKS broken in some cases. Everyone agrees that it "looks broken". Some believe that coverage is literally broken and others believe that we don't know if it is broken just because it looks broken.

Now what?

We should define what "broken" means before bombarding the devs with blanket vague statements if we hope for them to make these issues a priority.

If I got a ticket that said the coverage was "broken" three things would happen:

1) I would think that the user is exaggerating. I have had tickets at my job where the user said "I think the computer is broken, it won't turn on at all". When I went to their desk I turned on the monitor and they said "oh, you fixed it". Users don't always know what they are talking about so everything they say needs to be taking with a grain of salt unless they provide clear, specific, and reproducible issues.

2) I would think think that "broken" coverage meant the defense stands in place and does nothing.

3) I would comment that this is too vague of a ticket for me to test or pinpoint without further testable information.

Does the AI engine literally not work? Are the defenders standing still for the duration of the play as the play progresses?

Does the AI play a bad animation when the get beat?

Does the AI not cover its zone even though it is a 99 awr, 99 zone, 99 play recognition?

Does the AI not cover its zone when it has 65 AWR, 70 zone, 60 play recognition and you believe that the defender should cover better than that?

Does the AI get beat by crosses in man-to-man coverage and dart to the sidelines instead of following the crossing route?

Do the ratings that affect the defender (play recognition, man coverage, awareness, pass reaction slider) have an overwhelming effect on the coverage and it needs to be turned down because when the defender gets "beat" it is way too exaggerated and makes it look broken?

Do the ratings that affect the defender have no effect on coverage resulting in mediocre receivers beating pro bowl defenders on every route?

Canes21 and several others have shown several examples of bad coverage. These are good testable scenarios. It could be that when the slant happens a variable that tells the AI to cut inside is reversed and the defender cuts outside instead. The point is that this is something that is testable and provides concrete instructions for the devs to look at. "Pass coverage is broken" can mean 1001 different things.

If the people that consider the coverage to be "broken" want to see the issues addressed they would be wise to pinpoint the exact scenarios so that the dev team can test a reproducible issue.

Bombarding the devs with "Pass coverage is broken" may feel good but it does not help them identify the actual issues other than telling them that you think pass coverage is broken because you see some funky animations but have zero knowledge of the calculations that play out underneath that determine what the defender is doing.


Just my 2 cents.

[tru11]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Honestly the only bad one is the first. The #2 and #3 are zone coverage and while it wasn't great coverage it wasn't that bad. Fuller should have been better on #2 but players make mistakes. Clips #4 and #5 are guys that are getting beat at the top of the route in man coverage. Defense is a reactionary position so the guys are not going to make the break at the same time as the WR/TE/RB. #4 was Mike Hughes (I believe, hard to see #) and he has 65 awareness. That's not bad reaction time for 65 awareness. #5 was Sproles running a hitch and he is going to get separation on a route like that. Awuzie should've been closer because he is a good player, but again players make mistakes.


#1 where the DB ran the opposite way is clearly a bug. The rest is not far from what you're going to be seeing on a Sunday. Honestly the coverage by Mack in #3 was pretty incredible for a pass rusher. He passed off the first guy once the WR went out of his zone and then he had the awareness to step up and instantly make contact with the WR that entered his zone. I doubt you'll see him consistently play it any better than that in real life.

#2 the defenders is looking at the QB, stops and takes a step back before reacting to the ball.
pretty much looks like the QB going through his throwing motion triggers the defender to stop what he is doing and even take a step back before doing what he is supposed to do.


#3
Mack is looking at the QB all the way and reacts way to late to the ball.
Thats 99 awr and 99 PRC.....


#4
the corner looks at the receiver, breaks with the receiver taking 1 step then stops before following.
when a corner commits to trail they dont stop to think things over before deciding to run after the receiver lol
pretty much seems that the QB going through the throwing motion freezes the defender just enough for the WR to get open.

#5
The corner took like 5 steps before realizing the receiver stopped running lol.
Seriously he was at least 5 yards downfield before stopped and turned around.
The corner wasent playing off coverage.
sure sproles can sell that route but for a seperation of at least 5 yards????

[burter]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Kind of surprised this thread just happening now. Pass coverage been broken since like 2014. I had made ncaa 14 clips showing this back than. The real reason it gets cover up is because of blitzing before the play has time to develop. However the human/cpu (more human) AI always have taken themselves out of the play on certain routes. It's better than it was back than, but still bad though.

[Earl1963]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

This is one of many reasons I’m waiting for a price drop, or completely skipping. I have watched a lot of vids of Madden 20 and the way the D AI doesn’t react with what’s happing in front of them is unacceptable for $60.

[stinkubus]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Everyone needs to slow their roll. We haven't even gotten a patch yet. M18 and M19 were both in way worse shape at launch.

[PhillyPhanatic14]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Everyone needs to slow their roll. We haven't even gotten a patch yet. M18 and M19 were both in way worse shape at launch.

Couldn't even see M19 at launch lol. I couldn't get through my ea access hours because the lighting was so horrible.


They've already said a patch is on the way and we're over 5 weeks out from real football and a month ahead of when Madden used to release. They've got time to get it right.

[fballturkey]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Just had Matt Ryan only throw one incompletion to 21 completions against the Vikings.

Robo QB is too real. Glad I had the 10 hour trial this year to help make my decision.

[Royerrulz]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Probably not broken. Same complaints every year. I see this on youtube as well. Unfortunately all you see are small snippets where something is "broken" while ignoring the awful defensive playcall, awful user taking a ss / lb out of designated play.

Will probably play 20 on all madden default just as 19 and have satisfactory sim stats / outcome.

[deiied]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Just had Matt Ryan only throw one incompletion to 21 completions against the Vikings.

Robo QB is too real. Glad I had the 10 hour trial this year to help make my decision.

That would NEVER happen in real life.

Philip Rivers 28/29 for 259 yards and 3 tds

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...1811250sdg.htm

[gr18]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

At least this year the game is out early where you can take the wait and see approach if you have reservations about some of the issues.

I think there are,ways to make this a little better anyways and that the cpu clock management is a much bigger problem.

[Steelers4190]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

That would NEVER happen in real life.

Philip Rivers 28/29 for 259 yards and 3 tds

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...1811250sdg.htm

The issue isn't that it rarely happens.....Because there are a couple instances in NFL history where guys were just locked in and had those types of days......they should not occur near the rate they tend to do in Madden

[Royerrulz]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

The issue isn't that it rarely happens.....Because there are a couple instances in NFL history where guys were just locked in and had those types of days......they should not occur near the rate they tend to do in Madden

Are you clear on the rate of occurance? There have probably been more madden 20 games played by this point than all football games in history. I doubt too many are scambling to post about those gritty, middle of the road games.

Not to mention we don't know anything about what settings habe beem screwed with - seems like everyone scrambles to change settings first then play games later these days.