Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

[canes21]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

not sure how people can argue for this behavior when its happening on every single pass play to at least on of the defenders against a WR cutting

the common way a defender loses in coverage is how slow he is to react to the cut, not him going in the COMPLETELY opposition direction of the cut every time

Yea, I don't get how anyone can defend this type of coverage. It boggles my mind. Man coverage does not get beat like this in real life. Man coverage is beaten with timing routes, defenders reacting a step too slow, or a guy being rubbed or slipping. There is a reason man coverage is played as much as it is in the NFL and why pass windows in man coverage are as small as they are.

Blown or busted coverages are overwhelmingly happening in zone coverage and it generally stems from a route combo that causes one WR to get defended by 2 or 3 players while another WR free. A safety biting on the in, leaving the post open for example.

That already happens in Madden now. If they could tighten up this man coverage and get it playing all routes appropriately, the passing game would get much better and more realistic overall. Do that, make zone defenders react a bit quicker to guys in their zones, and fix the safeties getting way too much depth and you have a real solid game on the field.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Still, with the plethora of Gifs, and they are excellent support, I can see maintaining outside leverage because there is inside help.

With that, the sideline is also a defender in a sense, and a player playing Man could push the receiver towards the sideline, especially on a streak.

I can see biting on the route where the WR is heading towards the sideline. I am not saying there isn't anything wrong with the coverage, just saying I can see it explained as biting and failing.

HAs anyone posted these Gifs on Twitter? The EA Devs spend most of their interaction time on Twitter, at least it's the easiest way to contact them.

I would suggest posting to someone such as Clint.

I still see that there needs to be certain results based on ratings and animations to show the results properly. If I were watching many of the coverage Gifs and they involved real-life players, we would be talking about how they could make their coverage better. So if the CB in game has a low rating in an area of importance, that can be used to explain the lack of coverage perfection. Or if the WR has great ratings in key areas, that can explain what is being witnessed.

[mooch49]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

My issue with that route was the way the DB cut towards the sideline and LOS at an angle that made no sense. That's the issue right now that I am seeing with man coverages. The DB's are inexplicably cutting away from the WR, generally towards the sideline, for no reason at all. I find it really hard to believe EA has it set like this to show that the coverage was beat.



I have some gifs below to show a few things off.





Here we see the comeback and how it is played when the man coverage includes a press at the LOS. We see the DB ride the WR up the field and then get beat in an appropriate manner. This looks completely fine. It shows exactly why this route is deadly against man coverage. Get that DB's hips turned and then slam on the brakes, if the ball is thrown on time and accurately then it is completed every single time.







Here is the comeback route when the man coverage is playing off. The DB cuts really hard on that first move on the route and that is a big no-no. That should not be happening. Fortunately this route is structured in a way that the DB is able to recover and mask the issue.







Imagine if this was a simple streak route and the DB was playing it like this. We'd all be up in arms about how the DB is charging in for no reason at all and it is allowing that route to be a money route.







Here is the weird thing, when you actually run the streak route, the DB plays it properly. They don't bug out and charge the sideline/LOS. This is exactly how the comeback route should be played by the DB's in man coverage. This would still allow the WR to beat the man coverage properly and it would look a million times more realistic. Why are the DB's playing this route completely different from the comeback route? They aren't cutting on the steps towards the boundary. That is why I feel certain routes are bugged right now with regards to man coverage.







We have proof right here that the DB's can play this type of route appropriately and it would still get beat the way it is supposed to in football. Every single time I ran this route it was covered the right way. Literally every single time I ran the comeback route against the off coverage, the DB always had to charge the sideline/LOS. It never failed. That is why I think some routes are messing man coverage up right now and that it is not intentional by EA.



Now, let's look at the slant routes. These are the routes I originally saw the issue with. Here below is a slant route that is be played properly. The DB does not cut away from the WR and the ball for no reason. He gets beat by the slant like he should, but he follows the WR and is able to close on him in a realistic manner.







And then here is the slant route when the DB cuts out for absolutely no reason when the WR breaks in. This is the exact type of play I saw in my very first game that made me go into replay and see what was up. The Saints ran a slant and I gave up a long TD because of the coverage bugging out like this. My CB just cut real hard towards the sideline when the WR broke in and I refuse to believe EA programmed that in to represent the coverage was beat.







The slant route is weird. It isn't like the comeback route where it is played wrong every single time I ran it. It was a mixed bag, but from my own personal experience, the DB bugged out more often than not.



We can see in these gifs that the routes can be covered and beaten in appropriate manners. There is no need for the DB's to be cutting away from the route for no reason. That is why I firmly stand on the side that thinks this is a bug and not intentional. I simply cannot see EA not really messing with coverages this cycle, but that being the one thing they did add in.

All your examples are valid. But again, a very small percentage of the Madden base will not recognize them nor test for them. That doesn't mean EA shouldn't address these issues. I just don't think they will make it a priority simply because not doing so won't hurt game sales. With that being said, I really believe some of the developers & programmers care about this stuff. It's just a matter if the people on top will allow them to invest the time based on the resources they have to work with.

Despite all of that, I agree with you. Some of those gifs clearly show a lack of detail and realism. One thing that really bothers me, and it backs up with what you say, is how easy it is to run quick slants. Last night, I was able to drive down the field for a TD running the same play to the same player on the same side of the field. That to me is a game breaker. I know it's always been a money play, but for it to be this bad, hurts the realism for sure. But it will probably never be fixed because of the reasons I mentioned earlier.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Also, is the CB in the Gifs playing underneath or over coverage shading? Inside or outside shading?

Has anyone played with these settings?

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Julio Jones on a Comeback route separation. Yes the defender does slip, but was burned either way.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...comeback-route

Winning a Comeback

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnwdnnK17A0

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

In Madden, Comeback routes are Man beaters unless you user the CB or have a solid dice roll win. Maybe shade under; I would have to look at that when the full game comes out.

The animations need to be updated. The win is very legit and the only argument I see here is that the animations are not playing out to some people's expectations.

There are coverages that take away Comeback routes. Madden gives us a number of tools to use against route combos, so if a coverage consistently gets beat by a route combo or single route, it would be best to adjust the defense. This would be true in real life. The pleasing visuals should come with the addition of new animations

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

So lowering the defensive reaction slider helps ?

It helped make coverage at least look tighter, there still a lot of balls that connect somehow that probably shouldn’t. Either lowering accuracy or boosting int sliders might help.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Jimbo12308]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

That might’ve helped a lot! Just tried it now, still in All Madden, and put react at 20 and coverage at 40 and the LBs actually batted the ball away. There was literally NO attempt to defend the ball before this with those sliders at 50 or 100. First time I’ve been stopped spamming quick slants aside from a pick I threw at goal line before this. Now I gotta see how other routes look.

They are definitely playing tighter and defending the passes now.

Yay! I did something!

Slideritis finally paid off! I’d love to see others impressions of pass coverage when reaction time is decreased and coverage is increased. With all the issues present in the coverage, this is something that we gotta figure out. Hopefully EA will still address it, because on basic sliders (which I assume many people are using) the pass coverage should still not be this poor. But if sliders can take us in the right direction, then at least that’s something.

So I’d be curious to see what happens with coverage at 100 and reaction at 0. Does the coverage become insanely tight? Then if we switch it to 100-100 or 100 (coverage) 50 (reaction) does the coverage then become weaker? If so, then we have our answer of whether or not reaction time is definitely reversed.

[khaliib]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Still, with the plethora of Gifs, and they are excellent support, I can see maintaining outside leverage because there is inside help.

With that, the sideline is also a defender in a sense, and a player playing Man could push the receiver towards the sideline, especially on a streak.

I can see biting on the route where the WR is heading towards the sideline. I am not saying there isn't anything wrong with the coverage, just saying I can see it explained as biting and failing.

HAs anyone posted these Gifs on Twitter? The EA Devs spend most of their interaction time on Twitter, at least it's the easiest way to contact them.

I would suggest posting to someone such as Clint.

I still see that there needs to be certain results based on ratings and animations to show the results properly. If I were watching many of the coverage Gifs and they involved real-life players, we would be talking about how they could make their coverage better. So if the CB in game has a low rating in an area of importance, that can be used to explain the lack of coverage perfection. Or if the WR has great ratings in key areas, that can explain what is being witnessed.

But Clint is going to ask for “details” as was the point of my long post, but the culture is different now.

He’s also going to say send him actual “gameplay” footage along with the details, not something done in “Practice Mode” which has been noted 1000x tunes as the worst way to lab anything, especially as it relates to Franchise.

I’m really glad they’ve decided not to do tunings/patches any more just off the whim.

Man, can we get the players ratings involved posted?
- gifs in Practice Mode will not make the devs look at it

But I’ll digress and exit left on this topic.

[canes21]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

You want a gif that isn't from practice, then here you go.



This goes for a TD all because my DB cuts the way he does for absolutely zero reason. If he covers it properly, like we already know can happen in the game, then he likely tackles the WR or he at least slows him down enough for someone else to clean it up.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

You want a gif that isn't from practice, then here you go.

The CB has inside help. Cover 1 robber? Or a zone defense with one CB placed in Man?

Is this All-Pro? All-Madden? Comp? Sim?

[Matt10]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

You want a gif that isn't from practice, then here you go.



This goes for a TD all because my DB cuts the way he does for absolutely zero reason. If he covers it properly, like we already know can happen in the game, then he likely tackles the WR or he at least slows him down enough for someone else to clean it up.

I can also provide plenty of video of this occurrence. This is not an uncommon animation. It is the #1 problem with the passing coverage in this game. I have my sliders are up and 90% of it is combatting the very poor animation as displayed by canes.

[canes21]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Julio Jones on a Comeback route separation. Yes the defender does slip, but was burned either way.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...comeback-route

Winning a Comeback

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnwdnnK17A0

In Madden, Comeback routes are Man beaters unless you user the CB or have a solid dice roll win. Maybe shade under; I would have to look at that when the full game comes out.

The animations need to be updated. The win is very legit and the only argument I see here is that the animations are not playing out to some people's expectations.

There are coverages that take away Comeback routes. Madden gives us a number of tools to use against route combos, so if a coverage consistently gets beat by a route combo or single route, it would be best to adjust the defense. This would be true in real life. The pleasing visuals should come with the addition of new animations

1) Nobody is mad that the comeback is beating man coverage. That isn't even the issue at all. Showing highlights that it beats man in real life is useless with what regards to what is being discussed.

2) The CPU does not use the tools to shade over/under/inside/outside so bringing those tools up does not matter here either. This is a fundamental issue with the coverage itself. It needs to be fixed for at least the CPU's sake and anyone who primarily plays vs the CPU or for anyone who doesn't have the magical powers to user the CB every time one of the broken routes is being ran.

3) This does not appear to be an issue where the animation isn't of enough quality. This looks more like a bug in the coverage causing defensive players in man coverage to inexplicably cut at a random angle away from the offensive players against certain routes. So far we've seen the comeback, slant, and out route all have the same thing happening to them. The comeback route's structure does a better job of masking the issue as it allows the DB a chance to make it look like he recovered. Against slants and outs the DB has zero chance to recover from the issue.

[canes21]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

The CB has inside help. Cover 1 robber? Or a zone defense with one CB placed in Man?

Is this All-Pro? All-Madden? Comp? Sim?

I have already stated that all of this is on All-Pro Default sliders on Simulation. It's default coverage, no defensive adjustments were used for shading. It's man coverage, that is what I've been talking about from the very beginning and showing in each gif.

[Matt10]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

I have already stated that all of this is on All-Pro Default sliders on Simulation. It's default coverage, no defensive adjustments were used for shading. It's man coverage, that is what I've been talking about from the very beginning and showing in each gif.

Mine have occurred on All-Madden default, All-Pro default. Sliders adjusted all over the place, including the low reaction and high Pass Coverage or vice/versa. The animation's behavior, and sudden appearance reminds me of the ol' DB glitch of NCAA 2012 and 2013. It has no rhyme, reason or logic to appear. It doesn't only happen to DBs, but also LBs.

Video incoming, and I'll also tweet to Clint as this is a significant bug.