Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

[bkrich83]

Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

I was using Seattle Offense against Jaguars Defense. I’m pretty certain that Russell Wilson is a superstar, but I don’t know about having any increased effectiveness with out or in breaking routes off-hand.

This was practice mode for what it’s worth btw.


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I don’t know what the traits are called specifically. I know Keenan Allen has it and I think Phillip Rivers does as well but don’t quote me in that.


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[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

It seems like the issue is definitely more persistent on sharp out and in breaking routes with man coverage. It’s very odd behavior that, if not 100%, it’s really close on every play I replay.

https://youtu.be/SZhxPQqs5dY

Here you’ll see another example of an out route that just throws the defender’s momentum in the opposite direction. The most curious thing in this example is that the defender initially appear to track the receiver before flipping his hips and driving away from the receiver inexplicably.

https://youtu.be/YLYfW4sADbU

This is an in route by a receiver that causes the defender to drive his momentum in the opposite direction of the receiver’s path as well.


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The second video I have no explanation for, that was just wonky. I was hoping there was a pump fake but there wasn't.

[Kid OS]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Here are a couple of clips I recorded, all from the same game.

Both of these are zone coverages showing safeties playing way too deep. Also, notice where the ball is by the time they actually start to close in on the receiver. It is literally already almost halfway to the receiver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7JrudYQ6EU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jd4MguKxS0

Here is a zone play where the defender is supposed to be in a hook zone. Instead of covering the receiver directly in front of him, he... I'm not even really sure what he's doing.

https://youtu.be/m03HU7O_d8s

Here is a man coverage clip. This happens ALL the time. I've been seeing it happen since NCAA 14.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dDl1O6XrlU

It seems like in a passing situation, you can either go zone and hope your defenders make a break on the ball, or go man and hope they get broken by the receivers cut. Either way, things need a serious fix. But if they "couldn't get to zones this year" as we heard them say recently, how can we expect them to patch in a fix?

These videos are very telling. Even though I enjoyed my time with the beta, I knew that the passing game felt almost "too good". I had a receiver with 50 or so catches be top 3 in the league in receiving yards/TDs on All-Madden Sim. This was my first time playing Madden consistently since 2016. The game felt like NCAA 14, a game I played this year, and now I know why. I noticed that the coverage absolutely stinks in the redzone, but I didnt take the time to inspect it everywhere else on the field. It really needs a complete overhaul.

[bkrich83]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

These videos are very telling. Even though I enjoyed my time with the beta, I knew that the passing game felt almost "too good". I had a receiver with 50 or so catches be top 3 in the league in receiving yards/TDs on All-Madden Sim. This was my first time playing Madden consistently since 2016. The game felt like NCAA 14, a game I played this year, and now I know why. I noticed that the coverage absolutely stinks in the redzone, but I didnt take the time to inspect it everywhere else on the field. It really needs a complete overhaul.

Wasn’t there a previous version where the safeties kept way too much depth? 18 maybe? They did end up fixing it with a patch.


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[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

The zone coverage logic needs to do a better job of identifying the receivers and their locations in relationship to each other so the defenders know when they can leave their zone and match.

Though if the defensive play still has spot zone logic then it's going to get beat. I don't know if all the zone plays are pattern matching.

Blue zones need adjustments to identify nearest threat in relation to route concepts. One of the videos above had 3 defenders on 2 receivers, with the safety sitting too deep in his blue when there was no threat, seen in the video, from the opposite side of the field, such as a crossing route.

But at the same time, how should a 60 zone rating cover in relation to a 90 or 80 or 70?

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Then in real life, here is a safety out of position and gets sucked into a missed tackle and ultimately fails big time at his job which is to defend against the big gains.

At about the 2:02 mark begins the play.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/washington...kId=2768774442

I can imagine if this play happened in Madden there would be complaints about poor AI etc. But theses things happen in real life.

I am not saying there is not an AI issue, I am merely pointing out that I think people can expect perfection and when it doesn't happen in a video game it is blamed on programming. There is a catch 22 in coding these real-life mimicking games.

I try to look at it as, if it is a believable outcome, then so be it.

[mooch49]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Has anyone tried maxing both pass defense sliders for CPU/Player on All Madden level? That's what I'm doing now. Man and zone coverage seem very solid to me. But I'm not deep into
X and O's, at least to the point where I'm capable dissecting every nuance and play. I understand sim players want the most accurate, realistic, and strategic game of videogame football. So do I. After all, we are heading into the year 2020. With that said, EA knows their audience consists mostly of casual and competitive players. Sure they listen to our forums to improve the game's simulation aspects. In the end though, it always comes back to the dollar. What makes money for them are those majority of players I mentioned. The sim player is the minority. Unfortunately, that's the reality. EA isn't going to lose much money if only a small percentage of their fan base are football gurus. Do game developers care about them? I think they do. Ultimately though, their bosses care about their bottom line. If that means less resources and time to develop a more complete sim experience, so be it. I blame the executives, not the developers/programmers for that philosophy.

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[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

On All Madden I raised Human Reaction Speed to 70, Pass Coverage to 80, and I lowered CPU QB accuracy to 30 and Pass Protection to 1, and the game plays more realistically for me.

[xCoachDx]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Has anyone tried maxing both pass defense sliders for CPU/Player on All Madden level? That's what I'm doing now. Man and zone coverage seem very solid to me. But I'm not deep into
X and O's, at least to the point where I'm capable dissecting every nuance and play. I understand sim players want the most accurate, realistic, and strategic game of videogame football. So do I. After all, we are heading into the year 2020. With that said, EA knows their audience consists mostly of casual and competitive players. Sure they listen to our forums to improve the game's simulation aspects. In the end though, it always comes back to the dollar. What makes money for them are those majority of players I mentioned. The sim player is the minority. Unfortunately, that's the reality. EA isn't going to lose much money if only a small percentage of their fan base are football gurus. Do game developers care about them? I think they do. Ultimately though, their bosses care about their bottom line. If that means less resources and time to develop a more complete sim experience, so be it. I blame the executives, not the developers/programmers for that philosophy.

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You would think tho, with how big the competitive scene is, they would want the basics of their game to work properly. Although, the comp scene is nothing but a hot route fest that probably covers up a lot of those issues. But still, the fundamentals of the zone coverages would likely appear in the comp games wouldn’t it?


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[xSABOx]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Man coverage is a disaster currently

https://streamable.com/vbg8z

Should be able to fix once we can mod but stuff like that OTB is insane

[bkrich83]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Then in real life, here is a safety out of position and gets sucked into a missed tackle and ultimately fails big time at his job which is to defend against the big gains.

At about the 2:02 mark begins the play.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/washington...kId=2768774442

I can imagine if this play happened in Madden there would be complaints about poor AI etc. But theses things happen in real life.

I am not saying there is not an AI issue, I am merely pointing out that I think people can expect perfection and when it doesn't happen in a video game it is blamed on programming. There is a catch 22 in coding these real-life mimicking games.

I try to look at it as, if it is a believable outcome, then so be it.

I want to see blown overages, they happen every game IRL. I just don't want them to be the norm.

[mtmetcalfe]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

I want to see blown overages, they happen every game IRL. I just don't want them to be the norm.

I want to see blown coverages also but I also want star players to perform at high level consistently.

[Qcsports4]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

Haven't played the demo so,I have some questions regarding how bump and run coverage is and how it effects man to man coverage in this year's Madden. I know it is a gamble to utilize bump and run but,if a CB successfully bumps a WR off his pre play planned route,it should make the man coverage have a better chance of being successful. Is it that way in Madden 20? Plus,if you bring up the CBs who are in zone coverage closer,shouldn't that decreas the cusion that the WRs have to exploit?

Also,in an earlier post about how easy it now is to dink and dunk your/CPU way down the field,someone used Josh Allen as an example of how an inaccurate QB (to be fair to Allen,he throws deep passes well) is able to continually complete 5-10 yard passes. Isn't that better than allowing Allen to complete 40+ yard passes and long tds to Cole Beasley all game long. Seems to me that stopping the Bills from scoring on some those dink and dunk drives,putting up points and chewing up clock myself gives me a better chance of winning rather than Allen throwing 50 yard td passes every time he touches the ball and me being down 35-10 at half-time does.

[canes21]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

I thin kwe all want to see blown coverages, but in the proper manner. A blown coverage is not a DB cutting towards the sideline when the WR runs an in-breaking route. A blown coverage is when a route combo causes confusion among the secondary and one guys is covered by multiple defenders and another is wide open. That happens in Madden already and it's great to see it when it does. A guy in man coverage breaking the wrong way for no reason at all is not a blown coverage, it's a broken coverage.

[bkrich83]

Re: Pass Coverage is STILL so broken

I thin kwe all want to see blown coverages, but in the proper manner. A blown coverage is not a DB cutting towards the sideline when the WR runs an in-breaking route. A blown coverage is when a route combo causes confusion among the secondary and one guys is covered by multiple defenders and another is wide open. That happens in Madden already and it's great to see it when it does. A guy in man coverage breaking the wrong way for no reason at all is not a blown coverage, it's a broken coverage.

Guys jumping routes which lead to them breaking the wrong direction does happen. Not with regularity but it does happen.