Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

[DatsunDimer]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

I’ll check it out. I thought nhl 19 was a very good game so I was planning on skipping 20 just because I’m still having a lot of fun. But if they deserve the 60 bucks then I’ll support them.

I am giving them $60 every time they add a nice franchise feature. They are supposedly adding a 2K style trade finder, a new line chemistry system, and managing eight coaches across your NHL and AHL teams. Also believe you can make those coaching changes during the season. Fog-of-War and scouts were my main reasons for buying last year.

[El_Poopador]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

I’ll give Madden kudos for improving the commentary this generation. Well half kudos. Before we got the two guys we have now, Madden had the WORST commentary of any sports game and it wasn’t even close. They had to improve that area of the game because it was straight up embarrassing.

We’re still nowhere close to NBA 2k with guest appearances by former stars, pregame sideline reporters and halftime interviews (is this a higher up issue as well? Smh) but I won’t complain about Brandon Gaudin and Charles Davis UNLESS EA gets complacent, which I’m worried they will. They need to keep BUILDING and not just add a few limes here and there to account for the past season/new rookies.

2K also has totally different commentary teams during the season. Why can’t this be incorporated into Madden? Making each broadcast feel different would go such a long way.

2K has a lot of content, but I find Madden's commentary much better than 2K. Madden actually sounds like they're watching the game in front of them, whereas 2K is mostly just fluff and backstories that aren't relevant to the game being played. Also, Kevin Harlan sounds nothing like how he does when broadcasting a real game.

[El_Poopador]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

Change being noticeable in either game is entirely subjective.

True for the most part. In any case, I don't want to get too off-topic. This is a Madden thread, after all lol.

[Heisman]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

2K has a lot of content, but I find Madden's commentary much better than 2K. Madden actually sounds like they're watching the game in front of them, whereas 2K is mostly just fluff and backstories that aren't relevant to the game being played. Also, Kevin Harlan sounds nothing like how he does when broadcasting a real game.

In a perfect world we would get relevant backstories and in-depth commentary. I disagree Madden’s commentary being much better. But Gaudin and Davis aren’t bad at all. On any sports game if we just strictly went by the actions on the field, it would get boring after like 5 games.

Madden could bring in former players or something and chat during the preseason and during the regular season have a couple of different guys switch off depending on an afc/nfc/Sunday/Monday/Thursday game.

I don’t think anyone would mind paying some extra money just to improve the aspects of the game that is lacking.

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

No, they stopped releasing a baseball game years ago.

Despite being able to hit a market that is untapped (MS), they just couldn’t compete with Sony who didn’t have an exclusive license like Madden does.

So, baseball games isn’t the best example to try and prove the point of “Lack if competition kills growth.”

Both EA and 2K could still make an MLB game on Xbox to this day and have chosen not to.

Same with the NHL, which 2K could still make a game for. But I don't think hockey and baseball can support more than one AAA game.

I think EA just saw the writing on the wall, that with the costs of development going up, along with the price of licensing, it was no longer profitable to have competing sports games for either of the companies. So EA struck first and established Madden as their one IP they would hold regardless. It was a smart choice, as the NFL was easily the most valuable IP of the major sports.

2K misread the tea leaves, and they went with he more fair exclusivity, which allowed Sony to clean their clocks when MLB 2K8 was such a disaster of a launch. By MLB 2K12, they had a solid, fun game to play, but that wasn't enough in the current gaming environment.

EA may absolutely give up on NBA Live, but probably thought they could compete better with 2K when they decided to rebrand to Elite. Like MLB 2K8, a failure to launch a great game on their first (and to be fair, 2nd, 3rd and 4th tries) has probably eliminated any chance of them competing with 2K, no matter how good Live becomes.

You have to believe that the only reason FIFA and PES continue to compete is that there is a larger market out side the US. EA probably assumed they could use that to keep them in the game with 2K in basketball.

Hell, EA exited golf with the The Golf Club now the dominate links game. And while there are some golf games on the fringes, no one is making a serious push for console golf. I do wish Xbox would do a sequel to Powerstar Golf, which I liked a lot more than Everybody's Golf on the PS4.

Folks can get mad at EA for securing exclusive rights to the NFL and killing off 2K. But looking at the sports gaming landscape, the day of multiple games per sports were already numbered. And for as mad as folks are at EA, even at that time, with 2K5 being such a great game, and sold at a fraction froth price, Madden was still the dominant football game. If you wanted EA to lose that IP and give it to 2K, then you are advocating screwing over even more gamers, all because you think those gamers weren't "real" sports fans.

At some point, we just have to play and evaluate what we have and stop dreaming of completion in the marketplace. That ship sailed. And winners and losers are not based just on who had the 'best" game.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

To the OP, something people love to ignore is that Madden’s exclusive license costs a ridiculous amount of money.

If 2k and Madden sell the same amount of copies and make the same on their ultimate team/card modes.... 2k would be twice as profitable because they don’t spend nearly as much on licensing.

So where does Madden make up this difference? In development costs. Hence 2k has a deeper more fleshed out game than Madden.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[El_Poopador]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

In a perfect world we would get relevant backstories and in-depth commentary. I disagree Madden’s commentary being much better. But Gaudin and Davis aren’t bad at all. On any sports game if we just strictly went by the actions on the field, it would get boring after like 5 games.

Madden could bring in former players or something and chat during the preseason and during the regular season have a couple of different guys switch off depending on an afc/nfc/Sunday/Monday/Thursday game.

I don’t think anyone would mind paying some extra money just to improve the aspects of the game that is lacking.

That's where the balance comes in. IMO, Madden has the best commentary in terms of keeping up with the action on the field (save for MLB The Show), but is lacking in the color commentary department.

2K, like I said, has a ton more content, but it drowns out the game happening on the court, to where it sounds more like guys just talking about the league while the game is playing, rather than them actually doing a live broadcast. And when the majority of the commentary is story-driven compared to gameplay driven, it tends to lead to a lot of repetitiveness when you play with the same teams (ie Franchise/MyLeague).

I would prefer a game where the commentary can blend the two, and really create storylines from the live game and delve into the color commentary organically. Luck spent time working on throwing fade routes in the offseason? Don't just randomly bring it up in the middle of the game; rather, throw it in after he throws a TD on a fade route. Lebron spent time on his three pointer over the summer? Talk about that after he hits a couple instead of randomly bringing it up after another player gets fouled.

[AndreSwagassi86]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

I'm not saying it isn't how games have done it before and will continue to do it. I'm just saying this is where it comes from with a lot of people. The AI really does get boosts to their ratings. We know that. The AI also used to be telepathic with the play calling in the past. I don't know if they still are, but like I was saying before, in past Madden and NCAA games on All Madden/Heisman, if you tested it out inside of the 2 or 3 yard line, calling 11 personnel out of a shotgun look, if you picked run they would come out in a goal line defense every time, being very susceptible against the pass. If you called a pass, they would somehow know to come out in a nickel or dime formation every time. It never failed. I'm assuming this is something that is fixed, but it is not anything I've personally looked at in Madden 20, and I didn't allow myself to audible inside the red zone in Madden 19 as a house rule.



If this were a perfect world, I'd rather see the AI only get better awareness, smarter tendencies, etc. when going up in difficulty. I wish there were zero ratings boosts/deductions on any difficulty levels, but that will probably never happen. It is much easier to do boosts and the likes to separate difficulty levels as compared to really making logic different for each setting.

Agreed


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Heisman]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

To the OP, something people love to ignore is that Madden’s exclusive license costs a ridiculous amount of money.

If 2k and Madden sell the same amount of copies and make the same on their ultimate team/card modes.... 2k would be twice as profitable because they don’t spend nearly as much on licensing.

So where does Madden make up this difference? In development costs. Hence 2k has a deeper more fleshed out game than Madden.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Fair point. Not sure on the numbers, but with how many copies Madden sells those numbers should still turn a HUGE profit. Also if this is true then there is some truth to EA being greedy and lazy. A lot of features we have already had like the pro bowl and many people would just be happy with accurate, correct historial stats and a team/league history page.

EA should be able to just patch some of this stuff in. It would be nice to have nfl coach vol 2 in franchise, but it’s the little that are neglected that has people upset.

[Heisman]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

That's where the balance comes in. IMO, Madden has the best commentary in terms of keeping up with the action on the field (save for MLB The Show), but is lacking in the color commentary department.

2K, like I said, has a ton more content, but it drowns out the game happening on the court, to where it sounds more like guys just talking about the league while the game is playing, rather than them actually doing a live broadcast. And when the majority of the commentary is story-driven compared to gameplay driven, it tends to lead to a lot of repetitiveness when you play with the same teams (ie Franchise/MyLeague).

I would prefer a game where the commentary can blend the two, and really create storylines from the live game and delve into the color commentary organically. Luck spent time working on throwing fade routes in the offseason? Don't just randomly bring it up in the middle of the game; rather, throw it in after he throws a TD on a fade route. Lebron spent time on his three pointer over the summer? Talk about that after he hits a couple instead of randomly bringing it up after another player gets fouled.

Agreed on this.

[Nicholasht571998]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

2k micro transaction. Lost all respect for 2k when everything became money related

[ODogg]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

2k micro transaction. Lost all respect for 2k when everything became money related

Everything is ALWAYS money related for companies that aren't non-profits


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[UtahUtes32]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

I’ll give Madden kudos for improving the commentary this generation. Well half kudos. Before we got the two guys we have now, Madden had the WORST commentary of any sports game and it wasn’t even close. They had to improve that area of the game because it was straight up embarrassing.

We’re still nowhere close to NBA 2k with guest appearances by former stars, pregame sideline reporters and halftime interviews (is this a higher up issue as well? Smh) but I won’t complain about Brandon Gaudin and Charles Davis UNLESS EA gets complacent, which I’m worried they will. They need to keep BUILDING and not just add a few limes here and there to account for the past season/new rookies.

2K also has totally different commentary teams during the season. Why can’t this be incorporated into Madden? Making each broadcast feel different would go such a long way.

They have done better, you are right.

I'm probably in the minority for this but I'd be fine if they had nobody's doing the commentary IF it meant that we could get way more content.

I refuse to believe that Charles Davis' schedule in the fall is more open than a random unknown voice talent they could find. CD calls college games or NFL every week in the fall if I'm not mistaken.

[Smallville102001]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

The difference is that the Live team is much smaller, and they actually did start from scratch with this console generation. But the game itself has been tangibly improving year over year, as opposed to Madden, where changes are not necessarily noticeable.

This like a 1000%. Madden at its best ps2 was a lot better game then nba live ever was at its best. In some ways madden is worse then madden ps2 I am looking at you franchise mode and CPU clock management and wind still playing to big of a impact on kicks. Yet even though at its best madden was a lot better then nba live at its best I think you could now maybe say some how nba live may be better then madden now. Madden ever year even if the game is better over all seems to get worse at something then the year before and seems to always have some game braking issue. NBA live 18 if you compare it to nba live 16 the improvement is flat out incredible has nba live 14-16 was such crap, and live 18 and 19 show a lot of promise even though they still have a lot of improvement that needs to be made. So some how a franchise that was once much better and had a lot more time to improve on it may now be worse then a franchise that was crap just a few years ago and that was never at the other games level.

[triggerfish1976]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

That's where the balance comes in. IMO, Madden has the best commentary in terms of keeping up with the action on the field (save for MLB The Show), but is lacking in the color commentary department.

2K, like I said, has a ton more content, but it drowns out the game happening on the court, to where it sounds more like guys just talking about the league while the game is playing, rather than them actually doing a live broadcast. And when the majority of the commentary is story-driven compared to gameplay driven, it tends to lead to a lot of repetitiveness when you play with the same teams (ie Franchise/MyLeague).

I would prefer a game where the commentary can blend the two, and really create storylines from the live game and delve into the color commentary organically. Luck spent time working on throwing fade routes in the offseason? Don't just randomly bring it up in the middle of the game; rather, throw it in after he throws a TD on a fade route. Lebron spent time on his three pointer over the summer? Talk about that after he hits a couple instead of randomly bringing it up after another player gets fouled.

The commentary in NBA 2K19 is quite repetitive. In a single season I played all the games and every guest repeated their bit 4-5 times.

The commentary also repeated about as much as Madden does.

The one thing that is done better is when records are broken. They catch every single one and say something once you reach 2nd place of a record. Madden often times doesn't even acknowledge in-game that a record has been broken.

The thing that I've notice with practically every sports game is that the commentary is mostly for a single season. There is a lack across the board of creating historical commentary on things that happen over a multi-season franchise. There just isn't a commentary generator than can create complex sentences with new dialog. Until that happens, its all disappointing.