Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

[AndreSwagassi86]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

I get what you’re saying, but millions? Football has a lot of working pieces together, but I mean it shouldn’t be impossible to make a solid game (which we got) and add more depth (mostly menu screens and statistics tracking)

I mean I would say millions if you think about it. There’s individual interactions for 22 men on the field ... take OL and DL interactions multiple instances multiple ways of achieving a certain outcome.

Imagine in madden if the only way the DLinemen beat a RT or RG was swim , no spin.

Then WR /DB interaction ...
RB interaction blocking

This all before the ball is in the air ...

Once it’s in the air you have multiple ways the catch can be completed, Deflected or intercepted. Positioning isn’t always the end all be all. A WR or DB could have great positioning and the out come be different.

And that’s just a few. There 22 men on a field each with own assignments , possibilities and outcomes. I’m almost certain that it takes programming to a high plateau to get results.

And then you take NBA Into account. A less intricate sport in terms of player interaction and outcome. And there are a plethora of things NBA 2K does wrong or doesn’t do at all on the court.

But off the court it does a numerous amount of things

Then you gotta remember 2K doesn’t have the NBA breathing down their neck about anything.

Think : you really think the NFL wants gamers to know how their crappy contract system works?? I don’t


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[CujoMatty]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

Yeah, that is simply false information. This stuff usually happens because theres a 50/50 shot at pass vs run (just for hypothetical) and sometimes the AI guesses right. Def does not happen all the time. When you say ratings get boosted, also not sure the evidence for this. AB will still torch a corner rated 70. Just by margins that are way more realistic ( 1 yd over 30 yds vs. 5-6 yds you get on all-pro)

So you are saying the cpu takes a 50/50 shot to play nickel on their own 1 yard line and not because it’s doing the all madden boost? Cmon man

[AndreSwagassi86]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

The CPU literally gets boosts to their ratings on All-Madden. That's where the complaints come from. Also, in the past, the AI would know your play call exactly and it was confirmable through testing. If you were on the 2 yard line and called 11 personnel and called a pass play the defense would go into a pass coverage set every single time. If you called a run play they'd line up in a goal line defense every time. I'm not sure if it still remains that way, but that is where the complaints come from with the AI having boosts and "cheats" on All Madden.

There is truth to this , but that’s usually how difficulty works. Boost the AI and Subtract from the user.

Look how a game like 2Ks sliders adjust when you change difficulty. You play of HOF and the AI’s success sliders go up and the user goes down.

I agree totally with you here about All-Madden.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[canes21]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

There is truth to this , but that’s usually how difficulty works. Boost the AI and Subtract from the user.

Look how a game like 2Ks sliders adjust when you change difficulty. You play of HOF and the AI’s success sliders go up and the user goes down.

I agree totally with you here about All-Madden.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

I'm not saying it isn't how games have done it before and will continue to do it. I'm just saying this is where it comes from with a lot of people. The AI really does get boosts to their ratings. We know that. The AI also used to be telepathic with the play calling in the past. I don't know if they still are, but like I was saying before, in past Madden and NCAA games on All Madden/Heisman, if you tested it out inside of the 2 or 3 yard line, calling 11 personnel out of a shotgun look, if you picked run they would come out in a goal line defense every time, being very susceptible against the pass. If you called a pass, they would somehow know to come out in a nickel or dime formation every time. It never failed. I'm assuming this is something that is fixed, but it is not anything I've personally looked at in Madden 20, and I didn't allow myself to audible inside the red zone in Madden 19 as a house rule.

If this were a perfect world, I'd rather see the AI only get better awareness, smarter tendencies, etc. when going up in difficulty. I wish there were zero ratings boosts/deductions on any difficulty levels, but that will probably never happen. It is much easier to do boosts and the likes to separate difficulty levels as compared to really making logic different for each setting.

[bigsmallwood]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

The simple answer is EA doesn’t wish to do so.

The last time 2K made an NFL game it became hailed as one of the greatest ever by nailing nearly every aspect of the NFL on and off the field for that time. Imagine if they still had the license to make an NFL game.....

If EA wanted to or was pushed to make a more thorough game (competition etc etc), they would do so.

This has nothing to do with a shortness of resources, short dev cycle (a favorite excuse of many every year lol) or anything else. It is about desire....

[canes21]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

The simple answer is EA doesn’t wish to do so.

The last time 2K made an NFL game it became hailed as one of the greatest ever by nailing nearly every aspect of the NFL on and off the field for that time. Imagine if they still had the license to make an NFL game.....

If EA wanted to or was pushed to make a more thorough game (competition etc etc), they would do so.

This has nothing to do with a shortness of resources, short dev cycle (a favorite excuse of many every year lol) or anything else. It is about desire....

It is about the higher ups and really nothing more. A common theme around all of EA, not just the sports titles, is how bad the suits are and how difficult they make life. Mass Effect, Battlefield, Madden, NBA Live, NHL, all are games that have suffered in production because the suits upstairs that don't have the actual developing experience are making decisions that kill a lot of progress or cause the development process to be an unorganized mess. EA has plenty of talent in its development teams. Those people are not the issue at all. They have the desire, the work ethic. That is how they made it to EA and put up with the terrible work conditions we've heard about over and over. EA's issues anymore are all with the higher ups who make all of the decisions.

[TheOncomingStorm]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

It is about the higher ups and really nothing more. A common theme around all of EA, not just the sports titles, is how bad the suits are and how difficult they make life. Mass Effect, Battlefield, Madden, NBA Live, NHL, all are games that have suffered in production because the suits upstairs that don't have the actual developing experience are making decisions that kill a lot of progress or cause the development process to be an unorganized mess. EA has plenty of talent in its development teams. Those people are not the issue at all. They have the desire, the work ethic. That is how they made it to EA and put up with the terrible work conditions we've heard about over and over. EA's issues anymore are all with the higher ups who make all of the decisions.

Exactly.

Some people try to justify EA's inattentiveness by saying that Franchise fans aren't the target demo.

That's not a justification for not maximizing your resources.

It's fair game to call out the fact that the decision makers (marketing executives) simply don't care to improve the product in several areas, when the tools are at their disposal.

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

And here I thought it was because footballs are too hard to dribble.

[kehlis]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

Frostbite is an entirely new engine. You can't "port" an engine to an entirely different one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Absolutely not, you're incorrect sir. Agree to disagree.

This is blatantly inaccurate and it isn't a "agree" or "disagree" thing.

The devs have consistently said that they are still working with old code from previous engines to this day.

[Royerrulz]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

I'm not saying it isn't how games have done it before and will continue to do it. I'm just saying this is where it comes from with a lot of people. The AI really does get boosts to their ratings. We know that. The AI also used to be telepathic with the play calling in the past. I don't know if they still are, but like I was saying before, in past Madden and NCAA games on All Madden/Heisman, if you tested it out inside of the 2 or 3 yard line, calling 11 personnel out of a shotgun look, if you picked run they would come out in a goal line defense every time, being very susceptible against the pass. If you called a pass, they would somehow know to come out in a nickel or dime formation every time. It never failed. I'm assuming this is something that is fixed, but it is not anything I've personally looked at in Madden 20, and I didn't allow myself to audible inside the red zone in Madden 19 as a house rule.

If this were a perfect world, I'd rather see the AI only get better awareness, smarter tendencies, etc. when going up in difficulty. I wish there were zero ratings boosts/deductions on any difficulty levels, but that will probably never happen. It is much easier to do boosts and the likes to separate difficulty levels as compared to really making logic different for each setting.

But there isnt truth to this. And it's easily testable. Fire up 19, set up at the 1, call a run. Do it 20 times. They will mostly match your formation

[canes21]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

But there isnt truth to this. And it's easily testable. Fire up 19, set up at the 1, call a run. Do it 20 times. They will mostly match your formation

So it isn't that way anymore. I never said it was still like that, only I didn't know if it was or not anymore because I have had house rules in place for years not allowing myself to ever take advantage of it.

It was an issue in the past, though. What there is still truth to is the fact that the CPU does get plenty of boosts on All Madden which is where the complaints of the CPU "cheating" comes from.

[Bigmac612]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

im old enough to remember when NFL2K5 was introducing actual “fans” as cutscenes as apart of their new presentation for that year .. then Madden 2005 which had no intentions at all to include that in their game that year .. was force to put together some great value version of 2Ks at that last minute because competition forced them to do so .. this is why i can never buy that “resources” excuse.

[Royerrulz]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

So it isn't that way anymore. I never said it was still like that, only I didn't know if it was or not anymore because I have had house rules in place for years not allowing myself to ever take advantage of it.

It was an issue in the past, though. What there is still truth to is the fact that the CPU does get plenty of boosts on All Madden which is where the complaints of the CPU "cheating" comes from.

When is the last time you've tried all madden? You might be robbing yourself of the experience. I remember when it was legit stupid mode, but that was back in like '10 and prior. It is extremely refined these days. Play a few on all-madden and you'll definitely have some serious complaints about how all-pro compares.

[canes21]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

When is the last time you've tried all madden? You might be robbing yourself of the experience. I remember when it was legit stupid mode, but that was back in like '10 and prior. It is extremely refined these days. Play a few on all-madden and you'll definitely have some serious complaints about how all-pro compares.

I don't know what me having to play All-Madden has to do with the conversation anymore? I think you missed where I said my mod took all of the boosts from the User and CPU? My mod for Madden 19 last year was for All-madden only until one of the last updates for it sometime in early summer of this year. I played all of my seasons last year in my CFM's on All-Madden. None of that has anything to do with this conversation, though.

[Royerrulz]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

I don't know what me having to play All-Madden has to do with the conversation anymore? I think you missed where I said my mod took all of the boosts from the User and CPU? My mod for Madden 19 last year was for All-madden only until one of the last updates for it sometime in early summer of this year. I played all of my seasons last year in my CFM's on All-Madden. None of that has anything to do with this conversation, though.

Because madden on all madden default blows these other games put of the water from a gameplay perspective?