Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

[El_Poopador]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

As I said above, switching engines requires an all new rebuild. You don't "port over" to an engine, it requires reprogramming.

I don't believe that Madden 18 was built from scratch.

[canes21]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

I don't believe that Madden 18 was built from scratch.

It was not built completely from scratch.

[AndreSwagassi86]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

Doesn't NBA2k have a similar feature where they rake in money. I don't play so don't know.

They do and it’s far more greedier than Madden or any other. The pack odds are atrocious , the pricing is ridiculous seeing that every game mode is tied to the same in game currency.

NBA 2k has hella depth online and offline , but it misses the mark in game play believe it or not , and it only caters its fixes to its most played game mode : MyPark. If something breaks there, it’s broken everywhere. If someone complains enough a change will be made to gameplay there which then affects all modes online/offline.

Crazy part is every gameplay criticism you hear about madden , you can find in 2K. Suction animations, player control rendered useless when trapped in an animation , canned animations, AI defense losing there minds on defense on human controlled teams , server issues and micro transactions

But 2K has those modes tho.... Madden doesn’t so it gets hit harder.

For me I get irritated because I love MyGM/MyLeague MyCareer etc but once you dive into the game it is not basketball half the time, let alone Sim Basketball ... which makes those in-depth modes like MyLeague and MyGM a bore because I personally don’t want to sit in menus all day , I want to build a team and put my offseason work on the court.


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[AndreSwagassi86]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

Disagree. Basketball is run pass shoot. Its a pretty basic and non-dynamic game. The only way to make it interesting to play is off-court stuff. That's why there's higher focus there. You can see the same thing in NHL. Same ea game much more detail in franchise. The simulation engine behind these titles is presumably MUCH lighter because the sports are quite a bit simpler in a lot of ways.



Just ponder this - every player in nba / nhl can touch, shoot, move around the court at any time. You can take a "defender" and go cross court and score.



In football, only SOME players are eligible to catch the ball, only SOME players will block, only SOME players will cover. Each one of those require their own specific AI package. This is... remarkably complicated to get all of those ai packets in sync with one another.

This ... well said.

In terms of gameplay I always think of this.


Football is a very intricate sport , and anyone who has played knows this game has millions off possibilities and outcomes.

Imagine trying to program that... it has to be nuts , especially because if you leave out 1 on the field outcome you’ll catch hell for it.


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[Heisman]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

This ... well said.

In terms of gameplay I always think of this.


Football is a very intricate sport , and anyone who has played knows this game has millions off possibilities and outcomes.

Imagine trying to program that... it has to be nuts , especially because if you leave out 1 on the field outcome you’ll catch hell for it.


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I get what you’re saying, but millions? Football has a lot of working pieces together, but I mean it shouldn’t be impossible to make a solid game (which we got) and add more depth (mostly menu screens and statistics tracking)

[Datninja619]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

Please help me comprehend this. If you want to see career stats, isn't google your best friend? Why is that so high on anyone's priority list? Sounds like half the posters are more interested in a player browser + tailored cutscene / highlight simulator. Maybe after every series we should have to watch 5 minutes of commercials because #realism.

The way I (and maybe others) look at it is:

The stats are historical. They aren't going to change.
The data can literally be copied through each installation of Madden.

If it's time consuming, they should be able to hire temps or interns to get the data in and have version control for any changes.



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[Datninja619]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

Disagree. Basketball is run pass shoot. Its a pretty basic and non-dynamic game. The only way to make it interesting to play is off-court stuff. That's why there's higher focus there. You can see the same thing in NHL. Same ea game much more detail in franchise. The simulation engine behind these titles is presumably MUCH lighter because the sports are quite a bit simpler in a lot of ways.

Just ponder this - every player in nba / nhl can touch, shoot, move around the court at any time. You can take a "defender" and go cross court and score.

In football, only SOME players are eligible to catch the ball, only SOME players will block, only SOME players will cover. Each one of those require their own specific AI package. This is... remarkably complicated to get all of those ai packets in sync with one another.

Sure. Fair point about basketball and NHL.

So what's the excuse when FIFA 19? 11 players on each team, plus refs on the field.

*Edit* I do agree with you about the AI packages. I just mentioned FIFA, because its a game that seems to receive criticism about player movements and ultimate team, not lack of features... I could be absolutely wrong though

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[Royerrulz]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

Sure. Fair point about basketball and NHL.

So what's the excuse when FIFA 19? 11 players on each team, plus refs on the field.

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Soccer = hockey. All players have the same AI.

Unless you have done any serious programming it's difficult to convey what the challenges are. Refs... are not a true AI entity. Its just a graphic on the field. They arent sentient beings actually calling penalties - that happens with a randomizer in the background.

Anyway, one beef I have consistently with all of these comments is that all the sampling happens on All-Pro. I am sorry, but that is bush league and there is no chance EVER you will get a realistic game out of it. If I were to fire up 19 right now, after not playing for a good 6 months, I would pbliterate the AI 100-0 with any matchup on All-Pro.

Everyone whines about All-Madden and "cheating", but the truth is you get punished for terrible playcalling, you need to pay attention to matchups and fatigue, you need to play to your scheme, you need to either generate a pass rush if you can or play a lot of zone if you can't (and commit to one or the other) and on offense the ball needs to be out in 2-3 seconds most of the time. That's realistic.

I am so sick of people playing on noob difficulty, running around backwards with the qb for 10-15 seconds, then whining that when they finally throw it, someone is open (because the AI is kneecapped on All-Pro).

Go play a season on All-Madden default without restarting any games and see how you do. You'll learn a lot about how realistic the game can be. You'll also learn a lot about football.

[AUTiger1]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

Please help me comprehend this. If you want to see career stats, isn't google your best friend? Why is that so high on anyone's priority list? Sounds like half the posters are more interested in a player browser + tailored cutscene / highlight simulator. Maybe after every series we should have to watch 5 minutes of commercials because #realism.

Because if you play franchise mode over many years it would be nice to have detailed stats that you can look back on. You can see what patterns have developed. Which teams draft the best. Just stuff like that. You can't "google" that stuff.

[canes21]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

People talk about the AI having boosts on All Madden because they do. It's not a secret at this point.

No one is impressed that you could beat the AI 100-0 in Madden 19 on default All-Pro. What does that have to do with anything? You also don't need to really pay attention to fatigue because Madden has failed to really have fatigue impact the game in some time. It took us forever on PC to finally get the fatigue to halfway work.

I also have to laugh at the "soccer is like hockey" comment about all 11 players having the same AI. That's not even worth the words telling you how wrong that is. What a slap on the face to the devs of Fifa or PES.

[Royerrulz]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

People talk about the AI having boosts on All Madden because they do. It's not a secret at this point.

No one is impressed that you could beat the AI 100-0 in Madden 19 on default All-Pro. What does that have to do with anything? You also don't need to really pay attention to fatigue because Madden has failed to really have fatigue impact the game in some time. It took us forever on PC to finally get the fatigue to halfway work.

I also have to laugh at the "soccer is like hockey" comment about all 11 players having the same AI. That's not even worth the words telling you how wrong that is. What a slap on the face to the devs of Fifa or PES.

From an AI perspective... it is. You pass, move, shoot with little restrictions. Just replace buck with ball graphically and nhl would play like 5-5 soccer.

I've never felt the AI "cheats" on All-Madden. Might be a matter of definition. I would call cheating stuff like all 11 guys unable to tackle a runner, qb sheds 5 tackles then throws 90 yds for a td in quad coverage. This simply does not happen. I have observed that making bad calls can lead to big plays one way or the other, and that the heat and aggressive playcalling will be turned up (just like you would on user side). Also stuff like throwing a bunny to a defender will be picked off 100% of the time. Just like real life. Also worth nothing that you, as a user, habe significant "boosts" too. Linebackers don't move as quickly and easily as you can user them in real life. Why shouldn't the AI get the same advantage?

My point is on all-pro, those deficiencies are there to give you a chance. If you don't like it, try to get away with the same stuff on all-madden. If you can, then you have a legit beef. But what I see constantly is complaints that it cheats (i.e. user couldn't win), and thus must be broken.

I would guess that almost no time is going to be spent trying to do anything with all-pro, it is still terrible in madden 19 ffs even though all-madden (emphasis on default) plays incredible. True sim experience has always been all-madden.

[canes21]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

The CPU literally gets boosts to their ratings on All-Madden. That's where the complaints come from. Also, in the past, the AI would know your play call exactly and it was confirmable through testing. If you were on the 2 yard line and called 11 personnel and called a pass play the defense would go into a pass coverage set every single time. If you called a run play they'd line up in a goal line defense every time. I'm not sure if it still remains that way, but that is where the complaints come from with the AI having boosts and "cheats" on All Madden.

[Datninja619]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

All side conversations and rebuttals aside. I hope this thread does not get closed and something positive gets added to the game. Not removed.

Everyone that commented and viewed this thread, is a show of people that genuinely care ON THIS PLATFORM.

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[Royerrulz]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

The CPU literally gets boosts to their ratings on All-Madden. That's where the complaints come from. Also, in the past, the AI would know your play call exactly and it was confirmable through testing. If you were on the 2 yard line and called 11 personnel and called a pass play the defense would go into a pass coverage set every single time. If you called a run play they'd line up in a goal line defense every time. I'm not sure if it still remains that way, but that is where the complaints come from with the AI having boosts and "cheats" on All Madden.

Yeah, that is simply false information. This stuff usually happens because theres a 50/50 shot at pass vs run (just for hypothetical) and sometimes the AI guesses right. Def does not happen all the time. When you say ratings get boosted, also not sure the evidence for this. AB will still torch a corner rated 70. Just by margins that are way more realistic ( 1 yd over 30 yds vs. 5-6 yds you get on all-pro)

[canes21]

Re: Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

We have the evidence because we have seen it firsthand when modding the game on PC. One of the very first things I did with my mod was take all CPU and User boosts out of the gameplay.