How Would You Differentiate How QBs Play in Madden 23 and Beyond

[canes21]

Re: How Would You Differentiate How QBs Play in Madden 23 and Beyond

I thought you and Bronco had different ideas, his being some routes are simply off limits.

The playbook thing could be implemented if you mean hide play art at the line, because that is already in the game.

There's multiple ways EA can implement the playbook idea. They can have the actual playbook art in the playbook be wrong and be what your QB thinks the accurate play is. It could be the accurate play, but then when you're at the line pre-snap and hit the trigger to view the play, then it's different based on your QB awareness. They could even make it so other non-QB players with lower awareness may do the wrong thing, which is already somewhat present in the game when a low awareness skill position player runs the incorrect option route.

There's multiple ways EA could go about it, and there are pros and cons to each direction. The unfortunate truth is EA likely will never take any idea from this thread and implement it into the game. I don't foresee them making awareness more impactful for user QB play and that sucks, but it's likely the harsh reality we live in.

I'd love to think we could start a movement on social media like the #FixMaddenFranchise movement that #MadeAwarenessMatterForUserQBs, but that doesn't actually roll off the tongue, and I'm not sure the more casual gamers like the reddit crowd care as much about awareness ratings as they do franchise mode. Awareness is a bit more micro. Franchise mode is the most played mode and is more of a macro thing, so it's easier for the average Madden player to rally behind it needing changes.

[ehh]

Re: How Would You Differentiate How QBs Play in Madden 23 and Beyond

Start with accuracy meaning something. Short/Med/Deep accuracy doesn't seem to mean a thing.

In '22 last gen, the CPU QBA slider played okay at 4; bad QBs were bad but many solid QBs were a little too poor. Short but accurate passers like Mac Jones were missing too many easy throws but that was better than Josh Rosen going 25/28 against me.

Many of the other ideas in this thread are good. Tying various user features to awareness (audibles, number of routes a QB can throw to, etc.).

[tru11]

Re: How Would You Differentiate How QBs Play in Madden 23 and Beyond

Just make ratings actually matter and spread them out some more…


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[Dagan]

Re: How Would You Differentiate How QBs Play in Madden 23 and Beyond

I would be curious to see it fixed where QB accuracy and throwing power are their own things and only those two ratings / sliders. The whole short / medium / deep ratings would become how you split "awareness" ratings, and I think you could even split them more into short flats, deep middle, deep corner - maybe even further into Left Short, Left Mid, Left Deep, etc. etc.

In real life, if I'm majority accurate as hard as I throw, then it's that way wherever I'm able to throw to, BUT what matters more in actual competition is if I'm not aware enough to throw to all areas of the field because I can't see them, can't process the defense and such. I'm trying to think in terms of real life equating to an algorithm, and that makes the most sense to me.

To clarify: this could be what allows user or cpu QB to spot (icon shows up for user, basically) where to throw to, and more importantly might be what makes the cpu QBs really stand apart, as well as finally having the stars realistically hard to beat.

[Therebelyell626]

Re: How Would You Differentiate How QBs Play in Madden 23 and Beyond

To piggyback off of ODogg's post, if you want to see it for yourself...I would advise when you get the game play/watch a game with the Atlanta Falcons and Marcus Mariota and then watch one with the Packers or Chiefs with Rodgers and Mahomes. You'll definitely see a difference.

And $100 says it gets patched in to oblivion when the online competitive crowd starts complaining that everybody picks the same 4 teams in online play.

Even though EA admitted that something like 80% of the games played were against the EA, they have been very quick to nerf things for the online crowd including last year when they made that assertion.

I remember last year at release you had to be really careful throwing in to tight coverage because it was very easy to knock the ball loose when hitting a receiver trying to make a pass. The online crowd complained and it was nerfed to the point that even receivers in the high 60’s could catch anything that hit their hands regardless of the proximity of a defender. Granted I stopped playing the game last year in October because it had grown stale (I was still on PS4), but EA has a track record of caving to the e sports crowd

[Therebelyell626]

Re: How Would You Differentiate How QBs Play in Madden 23 and Beyond

The more that I think about this the more I think maybe the way to go about this is either new “negative” superstar abilities and or X factors.

Hear me out. Right now we only really have abilities and X factors with positive gameplay effects. Maybe we need some with negative gameplay effects.

For example: you could call one “seeing ghosts” in honor of Sam Darnold. It could be assigned to a QB such as darnold who traditionally makes very poor decisions when under constant pressure. It could be activated when you generate at least 4 QB pressures or hurries. The effect could be like a minus 4 medium and deep accuracy hit but not short accuracy. This would require you to adjust and start making line protection adjustments, and dinking and dunking your way out of the hole.

You could also have one for QB’s who traditionally are only one read quarterbacks. You could call it “diversify your reads” or something to that effect. It could be activated when there is 3 or more deflections on any drive and could have the effect of an awareness hit for the quarterback, or an awareness increase for the defensive backs. You could get out of this by running the ball a certain amount of times on that drive, or maybe simplifying the offense by having to run a bit more shotgun spread plays to simplify the play calling for the QB.

I know none of these ideas are perfect but I am just spitballing here

[canes21]

Re: How Would You Differentiate How QBs Play in Madden 23 and Beyond

Some good ideas. I like the idea of having negative factors for players, but I never see that happening. The players union fought to get slow development out of the game. There's no way they allow negative abilities get into the game lol.


However, I think you could incorporate those things into the game without them needing to be abilities. I can imagine a few different ways to implement this into mechanics in the game that look at the QB's awareness and what's going on during the game and gives buffs or nerfs to the QB. It could be like the old impact player system from the NCAA games, but with positives and negatives, and it could also be similar to the new momentum bar we have in Madden where there are differing buffs depending on who has the momentum and how much.



This is just me spitballing, but I could see if a QB had <80 awareness and their meter wasn't in their favor, the defense would be "reading" the QB's eyes and would have faster reaction times on passing motions. Now if a QB had a higher awareness, maybe they have different things that can happen to them negatively that aren't as strong, or they just become immune to certain mechanics depending on how high their awareness is.

[Momoney168]

Re: How Would You Differentiate How QBs Play in Madden 23 and Beyond

Some good ideas. I like the idea of having negative factors for players, but I never see that happening. The players union fought to get slow development out of the game. There's no way they allow negative abilities get into the game lol.


However, I think you could incorporate those things into the game without them needing to be abilities. I can imagine a few different ways to implement this into mechanics in the game that look at the QB's awareness and what's going on during the game and gives buffs or nerfs to the QB. It could be like the old impact player system from the NCAA games, but with positives and negatives, and it could also be similar to the new momentum bar we have in Madden where there are differing buffs depending on who has the momentum and how much.



This is just me spitballing, but I could see if a QB had <80 awareness and their meter wasn't in their favor, the defense would be "reading" the QB's eyes and would have faster reaction times on passing motions. Now if a QB had a higher awareness, maybe they have different things that can happen to them negatively that aren't as strong, or they just become immune to certain mechanics depending on how high their awareness is.

Your last paragraph is similar to what I was just about to post. I posted a while back that I think QB AWR should impact other players on both rosters more. Limited audibles/hot routes, hot routes changing incorrectly, starting road games with a momentum deficit, OL protections/possibly triggering more false starts (assuming penalties work) and having quicker DB reactions on a plays primary read(staring down receivers).

Also having the player motivations, specifically wanting to play with franchise QB, matter more in roster building. Or creating scenarios where a star WR/TE refuses to resign due to the QBMaybe it’s hard to gameify a low AWR user controlled player. If team building becomes more difficult it will provide more motivation to acquire a higher rated QB.

I also don’t mind having the WR icon randomized. Especially if they keep the pass rush where it was in the beta videos.


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[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: How Would You Differentiate How QBs Play in Madden 23 and Beyond

Some good ideas. I like the idea of having negative factors for players, but I never see that happening. The players union fought to get slow development out of the game. There's no way they allow negative abilities get into the game lol.


However, I think you could incorporate those things into the game without them needing to be abilities. I can imagine a few different ways to implement this into mechanics in the game that look at the QB's awareness and what's going on during the game and gives buffs or nerfs to the QB. It could be like the old impact player system from the NCAA games, but with positives and negatives, and it could also be similar to the new momentum bar we have in Madden where there are differing buffs depending on who has the momentum and how much.



This is just me spitballing, but I could see if a QB had <80 awareness and their meter wasn't in their favor, the defense would be "reading" the QB's eyes and would have faster reaction times on passing motions. Now if a QB had a higher awareness, maybe they have different things that can happen to them negatively that aren't as strong, or they just become immune to certain mechanics depending on how high their awareness is.

That already happens. It’s called All Madden 😂

[Dagan]

Re: How Would You Differentiate How QBs Play in Madden 23 and Beyond

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/23059762/qb_grid_chart_JON586540_2021_REG_all_1636400847311.jpeg

I felt that I could be way more detailed, so I took the time to really hash this idea out and just better explain where I’m coming from in the first place. As it currently stands, the ratings for QBs in Madden that really matter (for throwing the ball) come down to THP-throw power, AWR-awareness, SAC-short accuracy, MAC-middle accuracy, DAC-deep accuracy, PAC-play action, TUP-throw under pressure, RUN-throw on the run. That’s one Awareness rating, one Throwing Power rating and SIX different accuracy ratings. Again, I am not even talking about or getting into the ratings that would deal with scrambling. Just throwing ratings. Now, I don’t hate them. I just don’t know if they are absolutely crucial or noticeable like all of us want them to be except for when we make huge swings in the slider sets. I’m also not sure how they work to the current algorithm that Madden is coded for.

So, what I’m curious to see, if it could actually work, is if they coded an algorithm that matches the actuality of what they say matters to them, now – being the next gen stats. If I’m looking at the same next gen stats, then at least TWELVE areas are highlighted and have some quite specific stats listed (hence the pic attached / linked).

Still, though, I’m not saying to give each of these 12 areas an “accuracy” rating. I think they need to be “awareness” ratings. Let THP-throwing power and ACC-accuracy be their one and only ratings. Each of the 12 areas will get an AWR rating instead, and the hope would be that helps CPU quarterbacks play correctly, as well it will only allow User quarterbacks to see WR icons running routes in those areas (if said rating is high enough). Obviously, you want to make it to where it’s an option to turn on or off because of those who just don’t want the sim life.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: How Would You Differentiate How QBs Play in Madden 23 and Beyond

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chor...400847311.jpeg

I felt that I could be way more detailed, so I took the time to really hash this idea out and just better explain where I’m coming from in the first place. As it currently stands, the ratings for QBs in Madden that really matter (for throwing the ball) come down to THP-throw power, AWR-awareness, SAC-short accuracy, MAC-middle accuracy, DAC-deep accuracy, PAC-play action, TUP-throw under pressure, RUN-throw on the run. That’s one Awareness rating, one Throwing Power rating and SIX different accuracy ratings. Again, I am not even talking about or getting into the ratings that would deal with scrambling. Just throwing ratings. Now, I don’t hate them. I just don’t know if they are absolutely crucial or noticeable like all of us want them to be except for when we make huge swings in the slider sets. I’m also not sure how they work to the current algorithm that Madden is coded for.

So, what I’m curious to see, if it could actually work, is if they coded an algorithm that matches the actuality of what they say matters to them, now – being the next gen stats. If I’m looking at the same next gen stats, then at least TWELVE areas are highlighted and have some quite specific stats listed (hence the pic attached / linked).

Still, though, I’m not saying to give each of these 12 areas an “accuracy” rating. I think they need to be “awareness” ratings. Let THP-throwing power and ACC-accuracy be their one and only ratings. Each of the 12 areas will get an AWR rating instead, and the hope would be that helps CPU quarterbacks play correctly, as well it will only allow User quarterbacks to see WR icons running routes in those areas (if said rating is high enough). Obviously, you want to make it to where it’s an option to turn on or off because of those who just don’t want the sim life.

Jimmy G is very accurate over the middle but can’t throw outside consistently to save his life.

[Dagan]

Re: How Would You Differentiate How QBs Play in Madden 23 and Beyond

Jimmy G is very accurate over the middle but can’t throw outside consistently to save his life.

Yeah, that's what the ratings should be based on, but already having six different accuracy ratings and not really making any difference in the game, that's more of the reason I'd want to see if the awareness ratings do make the difference. Surely, it would fix that 25 yard only bug, if said QB likes throwing deep - Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers and probably Tua, now, should all be going long pretty often. To finally touch on scrambling QBs, the theory should hold water if the QB isn't aware enough to many "sectors" of the field at all within (let's be nice and say 2.5 to 3 seconds - because Madden) he just decides to tuck-n-run. Further, if it worked out, specific QBs would do something else after that 2.5-3 seconds - Kirk Cousins would chuck the ball out of bounds, Tom Brady would absolutely check down to the RB in the flat, Carson Wentz would force something in the middle and throw an INT, haha, etc.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: How Would You Differentiate How QBs Play in Madden 23 and Beyond

Yeah, that's what the ratings should be based on, but already having six different accuracy ratings and not really making any difference in the game, that's more of the reason I'd want to see if the awareness ratings do make the difference. Surely, it would fix that 25 yard only bug, if said QB likes throwing deep - Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers and probably Tua, now, should all be going long pretty often. To finally touch on scrambling QBs, the theory should hold water if the QB isn't aware enough to many "sectors" of the field at all within (let's be nice and say 2.5 to 3 seconds - because Madden) he just decides to tuck-n-run. Further, if it worked out, specific QBs would do something else after that 2.5-3 seconds - Kirk Cousins would chuck the ball out of bounds, Tom Brady would absolutely check down to the RB in the flat, Carson Wentz would force something in the middle and throw an INT, haha, etc.

I think they try to cover the tendencies via their player traits.

As for inside and outside accuracy, they can solve that by measuring pass distance as the crow flies rather than parallel to the sideline. I actually don’t know how they do it, so disclaimer here, but my guess is they didn’t utilize Pythagoras in their short, medium and deep pass accuracy ratings.

[Momoney168]

Re: How Would You Differentiate How QBs Play in Madden 23 and Beyond

I think they try to cover the tendencies via their player traits.



As for inside and outside accuracy, they can solve that by measuring pass distance as the crow flies rather than parallel to the sideline. I actually don’t know how they do it, so disclaimer here, but my guess is they didn’t utilize Pythagoras in their short, medium and deep pass accuracy ratings.

They already have “inside” and “outside” the numbers set up on SS abilities. They could use the same formula on ratings.


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[Dagan]

Re: How Would You Differentiate How QBs Play in Madden 23 and Beyond

I should have mentioned that I have used SS abilities and then turned off and didn't notice a difference. I should try again.