Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

[bucky60]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Keeping it simple. A company like Miller Brewery with 5,000 or 2,000 employees. Let's say a Manager of IT leaves and then 6 weeks later the Director of IT leaves. It might be big news to that department and connecting departments, but it won't make the Front Page headlines in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel business section.

I read your whole post. I disagree with it.

It is big new if Miller has exclusive rights over Light Beer and Miller Light is the most successful beer product in the US, and the two mentioned are the driving force behind that nationally successful light beer product. It's national news. You're trying to compare things that are completely out of perspective, or comparing apples and oranges. You have to change your Miller example QUITE a bit to make it comparable to Ian and Phil leaving. Bad comparison.

A better example would be if the two highest Defense Aircraft designers left Lockheed at the same time while designing and building the next future high tech fighter aircraft. That's a better comparison. Sure they're not CEO's of Lockheed, but it still is MAJOR news.

[43M]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

If Im being honest, I dont see it being that big of a loss. Phil and Ian were good guys, but I think Madden needed this shake up, as the game was getting so stale. The new guy (Cam Weber) has me more excited than either of them ever did. I know its too soon to tell, but I feel like he will take Madden in the direction it shouldve been going years ago.

Obviously, the proof is in the pudding, and we wont truly know what effects this will have until future installments of Madden, but I for one am looking at the bright side. I wish Ian and Phil the best, but I honestly am not upset that they are gone.

[DaveDQ]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

If you look at the evolution of Madden in the last 2-3 years, you can say Phil, and Ian for that matter, have definitely put this series in the right direction. Think about how bloated Madden was with Jostens, unnecessary Hall of Fame stuff, weapons and other just silly peripherals that were completely bogus.

So you consider all the mess in taking that stuff out and then trying to build it more towards the core of football and you know there were long hours put in. One thing Phil did well was move forward and not come on message boards and hope for affirmation. I always kind of saw him smirking at how silly we can get on here. At least that's my impression.

And while I took last year off from Madden, I've seen enough already to tell me they put a solid effort in.

[adfletch71]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Their presentation looks better than 2k5, it just doesn't sound better. I think too many people have memories of 2k5 and they always think of the game better than it really was. I know I do all the time. I'll have a thought to play it, then I actually will and it won't be nearly as good as I remember.

As for gameplay surpassing 2k8. That is all opinion based. Some people may have always like Madden's gameplay over 2k's and vice-versa. I always preferred 2k's gameplay, but I think Madden is catching up quickly. Both games have their problems, but Madden's are slowly going away. My biggest problem with EA's games were suction and the lack of defense. Those are addressed so I will not be surprised if I like the gameplay this year a lot more
than 2k8. 2k8 had a lot of problems too with its gameplay that Madden did
better, and maybe even more than it did better than Madden.

Hey Cane

I humbly have to disagree with u on the presentation aspect of Madden. Madden looks way better than 2k5, but the core sequence and overall presentation is not close yet. ALLPRO2k8 gameplay is better fundamentally, look at the foot planting, sideline catches, double team blocking, route running..etc. Madden is behind in a big way, but they getting better. If Cam weber doesn't deliver, he going too get drilled just like Ian and Phil. The standard for presentation is NFL2k5 and gameplay is ALLPRO2k8. They wasn't perfect for sure, but the fundamentals was almost perfect.

[canes21]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Hey Cane

I humbly have to disagree with u on the presentation aspect of Madden. Madden looks way better than 2k5, but the core sequence and overall presentation is not close yet. ALLPRO2k8 gameplay is better fundamentally, look at the foot planting, sideline catches, double team blocking, route running..etc. Madden is behind in a big way, but they getting better. If Cam weber doesn't deliver, he going too get drilled just like Ian and Phil. The standard for presentation is NFL2k5 and gameplay is ALLPRO2k8. They wasn't perfect for sure, but the fundamentals was almost perfect.

Presentation is opinion based and so is gameplay. I love 2k5 and 2k8, but Madden 12's presentation looks great and better in my opinion. The commentary is not as good as 2k, and the out of game presentation is no where near as good, but during the game I think it is better.

With the gameplay...

Foot planting - Madden has this
Sideline catches: Madden has this
Double team blocking: Madden has this
Route running: ? Madden has this and in a somewhat realistic manner...

Like I've said before, most people think of 2k5 or 2k8 and their memories paint this amazing picture, but that really isn't how it is. Whenever I see 2k5 in my head, its a beautiful game that I love, but when I go and actually play it, it feels its age and really isn't as good as I remember. If you actually go back and play 2k8, which I have done recently, then play Madden 11 or look at Madden 12, then it really isn't that much greater. Both games have their pros and cons, but I think Madden is closing the gap quickly, and may actually be the better game this year and I'm a huge 2k fan.

[roadman]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

I read your whole post. I disagree with it.

It is big new if Miller has exclusive rights over Light Beer and Miller Light is the most successful beer product in the US, and the two mentioned are the driving force behind that nationally successful light beer product. It's national news. You're trying to compare things that are completely out of perspective, or comparing apples and oranges. You have to change your Miller example QUITE a bit to make it comparable to Ian and Phil leaving. Bad comparison.

A better example would be if the two highest Defense Aircraft designers left Lockheed at the same time while designing and building the next future high tech fighter aircraft. That's a better comparison. Sure they're not CEO's of Lockheed, but it still is MAJOR news.

Sorry, agree to disagree with you on this one.

A bad comparison for you , not for me.

Yours isn't a better example, either, your going to the extreme. Lockheed vs EA?

Thanks LT, glad it makes sense.

[bucky60]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Sorry, agree to disagree with you on this one.

A bad comparison for you , not for me.

Yours isn't a better example, either, your going to the extreme. Lockheed vs EA?

It isn't Miller Brewery vs EA either. You're trying to say that two high ranking officials that are major players in developing the same major product leaving a company happens all the time. That's the example I gave. Much more relevant than your Miller Brewery example. It doesn't happen all the time without some kind of major push from the company. So Ian and Phil leaving at about the same time is either coincidental (which is quite possible) or something is going on. I haven't stated an opinion either way. But you are wrong that this happens all the time. Maybe two middle level employees not related to the same project, but not two major players developing the same major product. It does not happen all the time. It is big news.

[ODogg]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Although I hate to see anyone lose their job and Phil seemed like a nice guy I can't say I'm not a bit looking forward to what new folks can bring to the game, because it sure needs a drastic change IMO, not just a slight change in direction as a lot of folks in this thread seem to believe..

[BrianFifaFan]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

First off, I'm sad to see both Ian and now Phil go. I've spent a lot of time involved in all of the interaction on here, and kind of developed a virtual bond. Thanks for all the insights into the inner workings of how Madden is made. That said, I can see how it would come to this. As a avid supporter of EA Canada, and especially the Fifa team, it has to be hard for the Tiburon team to have a big shot from that studio be brought down to basically right a "sinking ship." If I had spent over a decade of my life creating a game and then have a new face come in to tell me that we have to get this back on track, it would be very disheartening. I'd lose faith in all the work I'd done. I'd maybe ponder the possiblity that it's time for a change.....

That said, I'm glad that there are still some substantial pieces of the Madden team still in place. Franchise and Art of in above average developers hands. And our own AJ is a total gameplay junkie. If anyone can get the line play right, it is he. Which beings me to my next point. Maybe it is a blessing in disguise that we are having such a high-level shakeup. As much as Phil and Ian have meant, there was seemingly a bit of "tunnel-vision." Madden had a certain feel to it, a way of playing that said "Madden." And it was birthed and nurtured in those two collective minds, after a fashion. (there were others, too) I'm sure that the "Triple Play" team thought they had a winning formula, too. (I'm not dogging Madden like that, just an example) But the time had come for MVP to arise from a fresh set of eyes and minds. I look forward to the possiblity of a remake of the franchise in the Fifa, NHL, MVP fashion. I'd like to see a more NFL-like game, as opposed to a better "Madden." In my mind, this isn't a "lose, lose." It's a chance for some guys who might have gotten so engrossed in the continuation of the Madden legacy that they lost sight of the progress of overall sports gaming to try something fresh. I really don't mean that as a knock. Ian was well versed in all sports games, but seemed loath to make a huge change to core gameplay. It still had to have that Madden feel. And the "If you see it on Sunday" thing was kind of window dressing. We wanted to see gameplay that resembled Sunday, not just pretty overlays and Halftime shows. Once again, not a knock. It's just really hard to tell yourself that you need to change something you've seen be grossly successful and risk losing all you've built over the last forever.

With all of this said, I'm hopeful and fairly confident in the future. The guys who have highlighted their respective contributions to this year's game, meaning Mike and Donnie, have shown they have ideas and talent to spare. Ian and Phil wil do just fine. And with an EA Canada-ex at the helm Im really confident about how this game will feel and come to be a great representation of NFL football in the near future. That's one thing that seems to be the driving passion of EA Canada in their games, gameplay feel that captures the essence of the recreated sport. It seems to be a "win-win" for all involved..... Peace!

[Mike Smoove]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Presentation is opinion based and so is gameplay. I love 2k5 and 2k8, but Madden 12's presentation looks great and better in my opinion. The commentary is not as good as 2k, and the out of game presentation is no where near as good, but during the game I think it is better.

With the gameplay...

Foot planting - Madden has this
Sideline catches: Madden has this
Double team blocking: Madden has this
Route running: ? Madden has this and in a somewhat realistic manner...

Like I've said before, most people think of 2k5 or 2k8 and their memories paint this amazing picture, but that really isn't how it is. Whenever I see 2k5 in my head, its a beautiful game that I love, but when I go and actually play it, it feels its age and really isn't as good as I remember. If you actually go back and play 2k8, which I have done recently, then play Madden 11 or look at Madden 12, then it really isn't that much greater. Both games have their pros and cons, but I think Madden is closing the gap quickly, and may actually be the better game this year and I'm a huge 2k fan.

Madden does not have foot planting, you can clearly see they still slide, and when they go left to right they dont dig in, their legs still move as if they are running forward but the players body turns. Madden has sideline catches but they still need a little more work, rout running needs work, Madden 12 looks GREAT. Biggest issue I see is the sliding or lack of foot planting. Another instance you can tell there is no foot planting is when you throw on the run as soon as you press the button they throw instead of actually taking a step or two to gather themselves and throw which 2K8 does. But as a OVERALL GAME I think Madden 12 will be better than 2K5 and 2K8.

[boritter]

Re: Phil Frazier the Latest to Leave EA Sports Tiburon Studio

This is starting to sound like the Activision v Infinity Ward drama...

Now MW3 has 3 developers.

I hope Madden 13 doesn't become a house divided as well.

[canes21]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Madden does not have foot planting, you can clearly see they still slide, and when they go left to right they dont dig in, their legs still move as if they are running forward but the players body turns. Madden has sideline catches but they still need a little more work, rout running needs work, Madden 12 looks GREAT. Biggest issue I see is the sliding or lack of foot planting. Another instance you can tell there is no foot planting is when you throw on the run as soon as you press the button they throw instead of actually taking a step or two to gather themselves and throw which 2K8 does. But as a OVERALL GAME I think Madden 12 will be better than 2K5 and 2K8.

Madden and NCAA do have some foot planting in the game, but not nearly enough, or to an extent most people want. 2k football games have foot planting as well, but it is so over exaggerated which makes it so much more apparent. As much as I like 2k8, it really does overdo the whole momentum and foot planting aspects.

I think most of us would be happier if EA found the medium between what we have now and what 2k8 has. That would more than likely deliver the most realistic experience.

[LiquorLogic]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Foot planting - Madden has this
Sideline catches: Madden has this
Double team blocking: Madden has this
Route running: ? Madden has this and in a somewhat realistic manner...

Madden 12's foot planting, from what we've seen at E3, is still inferior. There are far too many instances where a player can change direction without even the slightest foot-planting animation.

Madden does have sideline catching; they took a while to get it, and lied about having it in Madden 10 when we had to wait until Madden 11 to get it, but they do have it.

Madden has double team blocking in the running game; double team blocks don't occur with the oline is pass-blocking. If you've seen any E3 videos with double team pass blocking, please post a link. I'd like to see it.

The jury is still out on route running in Madden 12. First, we need to see if the routes are connected to the drop of the QB; second, we also need to see if throwing the ball before the wr makes his break on a dig, out-route, post, or corner route turns the route into a go route.

The pass rushing animations, and the AI from what I've seen, is still better in the other game. The DE's get up the field and,many times, don't engage the Tackle until they're at the same depth as the QB. Many times they're at the same depth when the QB finishes his drop. I haven't seen this at E3. Maybe it's the difficulty setting, but I haven't seen it.

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

As much as Phil and Ian have meant, there was seemingly a bit of "tunnel-vision." Madden had a certain feel to it, a way of playing that said "Madden."

If there's one point I can put across, it's that what you say above is 100% due to technology, and not vision. And Madden, when we joined, at the end of 09 for Phil and start of 10 for me, was in the unfortunate position of needing both major technology overhauls AND major feature additions...so you have to pick and choose where the limited time goes.

[ODogg]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

If there's one point I can put across, it's that what you say above is 100% due to technology, and not vision. And Madden, when we joined, at the end of 09 for Phil and start of 10 for me, was in the unfortunate position of needing both major technology overhauls AND major feature additions...so you have to pick and choose where the limited time goes.

Yep, this is why many folks think we won't really get any major gameplay changes until the new systems in 2014. Unfortunately I'm sure we will lose about 25 features then as well and it'll take years to get them back, at least if the transition from ps2 and Xbox to ps3 and Xbox 360 was any indication of how the future for madden will be every time we go to new consoles..