Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patches?

[CRMosier_LM]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

Casey, you are literally the only person I have heard of NOT having this issue. Power Moves players simply brush aside offensive lineman. Finesse move players do nothing. You have to blitz to get pressure with the ends. Also, remember, sacks and pressure are not the same thing. In our league, 4 of the 5 sack leaders are defensive tackles, and none of them are user controlled. Through 12 weeks Kevin Williams and Suh each have 15 sacks. It's ridiculous and it is absolutely a problem with the game. The same issue existed on NCAA as Trojan Man pointed out.

This is exactly the issue I have with Tiburon. To not even be able to recognize this as being unrealistic or a problem is what drives us crazy.

4 leagues all of them have DE and OLB leading the league in sacks. I can screen shot for you if you want?!? Actually I will do one better and see if Derek can pull the sack totals for the top 20 players thus far through all online franchise games syncd. I'm not tryig to be a smart alec in any way shape or form but all I can really tell you is that Im not seeing it. The numbers he pulls should give a good example as there should be around 2 million games syncd (rough estimate).

[poopoop]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

are there some gameplay issues I want to see done a bit differently? Yes, but those will wait for another year. I am highly against adjusting one thing that will have an affect on something else. Kick return blocking for example, if you adjust that to allow for bigger returns, you affect the blocking everywhere throughout the game. So I say leave it be for the year and focus on next year and improving it for the next game. If it isn't broke don't "fix it" and risk other ramifications.

These things are not mutually exclusive. There are issues with this game that will have to wait until another year to be fixed because they can't be fully addressed through patches or tuners. But that doesn't mean they can't be improved using one of the two.

The OL/DL interaction in this game is fundamentally flawed, expecting a full solution to this is through a tuner is dumb. BUT it is perfectly reasonable to want EA to tune something like the effectiveness of finesse moves vs power.

Just leaving it till next year when they have the means to potentially improve it now? Nah.

[CRMosier_LM]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

These things are not mutually exclusive. There are issues with this game that will have to wait until another year to be fixed because they can't be fully addressed through patches or tuners. But that doesn't mean they can't be improved using one of the two.

The OL/DL interaction in this game is fundamentally flawed, expecting a full solution to this is through a tuner is dumb. BUT it is perfectly reasonable to want EA to tune something like the effectiveness of finesse moves vs power.

Just leaving it till next year when they have the means to potentially improve it now? Nah.

Ok so we should convince them to tweak things that are only an issue for some folks and therefore change the game for everyone else?

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

Can things like this be corrected with tuner sets?

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1RK7Z_jh3JE" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CTK2tlD5u38" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

Both are the same play from different angles but Orakpo avoids the QB to engage the blocking RB. Also, it's hard to see in the videos but CB Josh Wilson is shading inside of WR Ted Ginn Jr but still allows the WR to slant inside without any resistance.

I wonder can they tune player AI logic and execution to match CPU controlled player's AWR. Both Wilson and Orakpo have high AWR and should make better decisions and proper execution most times. This is an example of what I often mention about User strategy being counteracted by erratic CPU AI.

To get rid of that suction block on Orakpo, just lower the USER Pass Block slider (if you were the 49ers). If you were the Redskins, lower the CPU Pass Block.

To get the CB to not allow the WR to get that slant so easily, you can just raise the Interceptions slider for the USER or CPU (whichever controlled the Redskins).

[huskerwr38]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

Ok so we should convince them to tweak things that are only an issue for some folks and therefore change the game for everyone else?

I have seen MANY posts about this issue in Madden and NCAA. Fitness moves are useless and power moves are too overpowered. My DEs and OLBs have sacks it's mainly from CPU controlled efforts. When I control the DE and try swim moves, etc. I can NEVER get through. They just play patty cake.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

To get rid of that suction block on Orakpo, just lower the USER Pass Block slider (if you were the 49ers). If you were the Redskins, lower the CPU Pass Block.

To get the CB to not allow the WR to get that slant so easily, you can just raise the Interceptions slider for the USER or CPU (whichever controlled the Redskins).

Thanks for the reply Eccentric but this was an online ranked game. That said, I would think since sliders can address this, then tuner sets can as well. I am sure I am not the only one online that has encountered these issues.

[poopoop]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

Ok so we should convince them to tweak things that are only an issue for some folks and therefore change the game for everyone else?

Everything is going to be "only an issue for some folks."

No matter how obvious an issue is there will be people that are either ignorant of it or don't consider it a problem.

If EA honestly believes that the line play in this game is fine as is and doesn't need any tuning then leave it alone. I have a hard time believing that's the case though.

[poopoop]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

Thanks for the reply Eccentric but this was an online ranked game. That said, I would think since sliders can address this, then tuner sets can as well. I am sure I am not the only one online that has encountered these issues.

I have a highlight of this happening to me, all madden with pass block set at 0. I'll upload it later if it's still on my 360.

[Senator Palmer]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

Ok so we should convince them to tweak things that are only an issue for some folks and therefore change the game for everyone else?

Any time something in the game is not working to my satisfaction, I always assume that it is something that I am not doing right. I am always quick to ignore the overreactions, and cries of "it's broken", and just keep plugging away. When this game came out it was you, and I think one other poster in the first "Defensive End pressure" thread who said that the lack of edge pressure from the defensive ends was not a problem. I took that as I need to keep working. Well, I have played this game consistently since release day and tried everything in the arsenal to get the ends to pressure properly, scoured message boards for tips. I've used the "edge rush" mechanic, as the other poster who agreed with you posted a vid of it working. It sends the ends up field as they always do, but it sends the DTs out too wide, and the interior of the pocket doesn't collapse consistently, so every just gets pushed out wide.

I've tried spreading the line. Spreading the line in conjunction with edge rush. Tried leaving the line adjustments alone. I tried mugging the LOS. I went to the 3-4. Changed up my coverages. Played better situational ball to take away quick stuff. Worked harder to learn the zones, and how to pass off receivers to buy time. Got better at man coverage with my LB. Now the CPU always gets pressure on me when I'm on offense, but nothing provides the consistent pressure from my elite ends that it should. The only time I see my CPU-controlled Defensive Ends work free is if they are over the TE. Now I can get pressure. I can get the ends free with blitzes, but just sending the straight front 4? No.

I was on the other side of the argument when the game came out, but straight up, this is an issue. It's not a problem that only effects a few people. It's not just a few panicked posters around here, even though there are more than a few threads on the issue filled with disparate voices all in agreement. Pasta Padre noted it in his review, heck even TNT, the most passionate Madden gamer you'll find walking God's green earth, acknowledges he doesn't expect much from his front 4. I am an impartial observer here. I'm not someone who'll say the game is broken just because I am lacking skill in a certain area. I have seen defensive line pressure properly tuned - last year's NCAA out of the box was beautiful - and what I'm seeing in Madden is not it. The game works so well in many areas, so I'll agree that there is no need for wholesale changes, but this needs tuning.

[nml11287]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

Funny how some of you are talking about rushing the QB being too easy. I had this problem on All-Pro where I would sometimes get 7 sacks a game and probably average 4. But now that I'm playing on All-Madden (all 25s), I actually have a major problem getting to the QB and barely get 1-2 sacks a game now, giving the QB all day to throw the ball. I had to lower the CPU's pass blocking stat to 16, and I'm still trying to see if I can get a decent pass rush.

EDIT: Also forgot to mention that while playing on All-Pro, my DE's had 20 combined sacks by Week 14. Lamarr Houston had 12 and Matt Shaughnessy had 8.

[Nani]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

After playing through a season of franchise on default All-Madden untouched (all USER/USER games) I fully agree with you SP. It's my brother's franchise and he's playing as the Vikings so a fairly good team to illustrate the issues with D-line play as I see them.

We've seen virtually no pressure from the RE's first off. This was present last year too I believe but seeing Jared Allen play through the first 8 games of the season without providing an ounce of pressure or a single sack summed it up pretty well. I've read through some previous threads stating that the problem is finesse moves being completely ineffective but I can honestly say that Peppers is the only guy that's caused problems as a RE.

LE's seem much more effective to me. He switched Allen over to the other side after the first half of the season I mentioned above to see if it made any difference and lo and behold he puts up 7 sacks in 8 games and rips tackles apart with much more regularity. One thing I'd say though is that a disproportionate amount of them probably came on rollout PA plays but it's better than nothing at all at this point.

Obviously the other side of it is the DT play. Kevin Williams had about 12 sacks on the season and every single one of them involved the animation where the DT sort of sweeps the guard to one side right off the bat and blazes past him untouched. KW's one of the better DT's on the game but I've seen mediocre guys rack up 2-3-4 sacks in one game a fair bit now for and against me and it doesn't feel or look right.

Got to say I'm not sure how the line play is on All-Pro since I haven't played too much on it this year but as far as All-Madden goes some tuning would go a long way I think. As it is the pressure is a bit backwards and it's hard to tell the difference between average ends and elite ends a lot of the time in my opinion.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

4 leagues all of them have DE and OLB leading the league in sacks. I can screen shot for you if you want?!? Actually I will do one better and see if Derek can pull the sack totals for the top 20 players thus far through all online franchise games syncd. I'm not tryig to be a smart alec in any way shape or form but all I can really tell you is that Im not seeing it. The numbers he pulls should give a good example as there should be around 2 million games syncd (rough estimate).

Sorry, but I and a boat load of others don't agree with you. I wasn't going to mention this, but I had a conversation with a developer who acknowledged that the problem with finesse moves is the animations take too long. That's why the power moves are so effective. If you have 4-3 DEs with high finesse moves, they are not very effective unless you blitz. Getting sacks and getting pressure are not the same thing. I don't care about sacks, I care about getting in there or being a factor. It's not completely broken, but DTs are WAY too effective at getting pressure. I should say, DTs with high strength and POWER MOVES. In my league and a few others who I have friends running, the sack leaders are 95% DTs and the numbers are ridiculous. I think you are going overboard with trying to defend the game when in this case it's not implemented properly. I could probably get 1 sack per game with Justin Tuck and that's a high amount of sacks, but I don't care about that. The 35 other plays he's a complete non-factor. I shouldn't have to blitz to free him up, he's a top 5 DE in the league. He should be more of a factor, not just a one play factor.

[CRMosier_LM]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

Any time something in the game is not working to my satisfaction, I always assume that it is something that I am not doing right. I am always quick to ignore the overreactions, and cries of "it's broken", and just keep plugging away. When this game came out it was you, and I think one other poster in the first "Defensive End pressure" thread who said that the lack of edge pressure from the defensive ends was not a problem. I took that as I need to keep working. Well, I have played this game consistently since release day and tried everything in the arsenal to get the ends to pressure properly, scoured message boards for tips. I've used the "edge rush" mechanic, as the other poster who agreed with you posted a vid of it working. It sends the ends up field as they always do, but it sends the DTs out too wide, and the interior of the pocket doesn't collapse consistently, so every just gets pushed out wide.

I've tried spreading the line. Spreading the line in conjunction with edge rush. Tried leaving the line adjustments alone. I tried mugging the LOS. I went to the 3-4. Changed up my coverages. Played better situational ball to take away quick stuff. Worked harder to learn the zones, and how to pass off receivers to buy time. Got better at man coverage with my LB. Now the CPU always gets pressure on me when I'm on offense, but nothing provides the consistent pressure from my elite ends that it should. The only time I see my CPU-controlled Defensive Ends work free is if they are over the TE. Now I can get pressure. I can get the ends free with blitzes, but just sending the straight front 4? No.

I was on the other side of the argument when the game came out, but straight up, this is an issue. It's not a problem that only effects a few people. It's not just a few panicked posters around here, even though there are more than a few threads on the issue filled with disparate voices all in agreement. Pasta Padre noted it in his review, heck even TNT, the most passionate Madden gamer you'll find walking God's green earth, acknowledges he doesn't expect much from his front 4. I am an impartial observer here. I'm not someone who'll say the game is broken just because I am lacking skill in a certain area. I have seen defensive line pressure properly tuned - last year's NCAA out of the box was beautiful - and what I'm seeing in Madden is not it. The game works so well in many areas, so I'll agree that there is no need for wholesale changes, but this needs tuning.

These types of posts are honestly what I love to see! Too many people fail to acheivements something on this game (or any game) and are always quick to blame the game and never take any responsibility for their own part in the situation. So thank you very much, it is awesome to see someone who is trying to improve an area they are lacking!

However... Im not speaking of a 4 man rush. You cannot realistically send 4 men vs the offenses 5 or 6 blockers and expect to get pressure. It doesn't happen often in Madden or the NFL minus a screw up in blocking assignments. Any football coach will tell you that. Yes if the QB sits back there long enough eventually one of your guys will get there and get the coverage sack but realistically it won't happen often. Expecting to get consistent pressure from a 4 man rush even with Peppers at end is nonsensical. Most passing plays in the NFL have 6 blockers even if one of them is a back or te left in to chip the end before going into their routes. Me ends and outside linebackers get mega pressure because I force them into a two man game in concert with each other.

[CRMosier_LM]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

Sorry, but I and a boat load of others don't agree with you. I wasn't going to mention this, but I had a conversation with a developer who acknowledged that the problem with finesse moves is the animations take too long. That's why the power moves are so effective. If you have 4-3 DEs with high finesse moves, they are not very effective unless you blitz. Getting sacks and getting pressure are not the same thing. I don't care about sacks, I care about getting in there or being a factor. It's not completely broken, but DTs are WAY too effective at getting pressure. I should say, DTs with high strength and POWER MOVES. In my league and a few others who I have friends running, the sack leaders are 95% DTs and the numbers are ridiculous. I think you are going overboard with trying to defend the game when in this case it's not implemented properly. I could probably get 1 sack per game with Justin Tuck and that's a high amount of sacks, but I don't care about that. The 35 other plays he's a complete non-factor. I shouldn't have to blitz to free him up, he's a top 5 DE in the league. He should be more of a factor, not just a one play factor.

It's not about agreement, either you want the concrete undeniable stats or you don't? You may be correct... I haven't seen the overall numbers, all I can speak to is my personal experiences in the leagues I am involved in and the stats that come from it. but I can get you the stats from over a million online franchise games... That should tell the story don't you think?

[CRMosier_LM]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

Sorry, but I and a boat load of others don't agree with you. I wasn't going to mention this, but I had a conversation with a developer who acknowledged that the problem with finesse moves is the animations take too long. That's why the power moves are so effective. If you have 4-3 DEs with high finesse moves, they are not very effective unless you blitz. Getting sacks and getting pressure are not the same thing. I don't care about sacks, I care about getting in there or being a factor. It's not completely broken, but DTs are WAY too effective at getting pressure. I should say, DTs with high strength and POWER MOVES. In my league and a few others who I have friends running, the sack leaders are 95% DTs and the numbers are ridiculous. I think you are going overboard with trying to defend the game when in this case it's not implemented properly. I could probably get 1 sack per game with Justin Tuck and that's a high amount of sacks, but I don't care about that. The 35 other plays he's a complete non-factor. I shouldn't have to blitz to free him up, he's a top 5 DE in the league. He should be more of a factor, not just a one play factor.

I'm not defending the game lol, I replied to the statement that said dt always lead the league In sacks and you get no pressure from de or olb. That's it. That's defending the games i have seen played and have been a part of. You say you shoukdnt have to blitz to get pressure, so a 4 man rush should get constant pressure vs 5 or 6 blockers... That's fine but its reverse logic.