Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patches?

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

I'm not defending the game lol, I replied to the statement that said dt always lead the league In sacks and you get no pressure from de or olb. That's it. That's defending the games i have seen played and have been a part of. You say you shoukdnt have to blitz to get pressure, so a 4 man rush should get constant pressure vs 5 or 6 blockers... That's fine but its reverse logic.

Gotta disagree with you there. It is the ideal intention of every 4-3 defense to pressure the QB with just the front 4, to allow the other 7 defenders to limit passing windows. There are teams that do this consistently when healthy and the NY Giants are one such team.

Here are some articles discussing front 4 pressure:

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2...thout-blitzing "The biggest problem with the defense in the later Jim Johnson years was their inability to get sacks without bringing one of JJ's many exotic blitzes. Plus, if I may dare to criticize the great JJ, he did seem to blitz even more often than he had to. So as the Eagles have dialed back their blitzes and added better pass rushers, we're seeing them now generate pressure without needing to rush extra guys. These are some more interesting findings from the previously referenced Keating column.
Since 2009, just a touch over half of the Eagles sacks have come when they rushed four or less passers. On Sunday, the Eagles registered five sacks and only one came as a result of a blitz. Two of those sacks came from Jason Babin, who it turns out, is quite good at getting sacks without a blitz. Last year, he had 9.5 of his 12.5 sacks when the Titans only rushed 4 or fewer.
That bodes very well for this defense at least as far as the pass goes. Combine the ability to get to the QB without bringing extra blitzers with the combo of Nnamdi Asomugha, Asante Samuel and DRC roaming the secondary... and that is dangerous. Now if they could shut down the run, we might really have something here. "

http://www.bearsbeat.com/2011/09/21/four-downs-keys-to-beating-the-packers-092511/

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/13/cutler-says-pressure-makes-me-uneasy/

[CRMosier_LM]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

Gotta disagree with you there. It is the ideal intention of every 4-3 defense to pressure the QB with just the front 4, to allow the other 7 defenders to limit passing windows. There are teams that do this consistently when healthy and the NY Giants are one such team.

Here are some articles discussing front 4 pressure:

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2...thout-blitzing "The biggest problem with the defense in the later Jim Johnson years was their inability to get sacks without bringing one of JJ's many exotic blitzes. Plus, if I may dare to criticize the great JJ, he did seem to blitz even more often than he had to. So as the Eagles have dialed back their blitzes and added better pass rushers, we're seeing them now generate pressure without needing to rush extra guys. These are some more interesting findings from the previously referenced Keating column.
Since 2009, just a touch over half of the Eagles sacks have come when they rushed four or less passers. On Sunday, the Eagles registered five sacks and only one came as a result of a blitz. Two of those sacks came from Jason Babin, who it turns out, is quite good at getting sacks without a blitz. Last year, he had 9.5 of his 12.5 sacks when the Titans only rushed 4 or fewer.
That bodes very well for this defense at least as far as the pass goes. Combine the ability to get to the QB without bringing extra blitzers with the combo of Nnamdi Asomugha, Asante Samuel and DRC roaming the secondary... and that is dangerous. Now if they could shut down the run, we might really have something here. "

http://www.bearsbeat.com/2011/09/21/four-downs-keys-to-beating-the-packers-092511/

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...kes-me-uneasy/

And how many of those blitzes had lb/s showing blitz to force an lineman to commit to hit and there for allow 1 on 1 matchup across the line or a mismatch? And you are right, teams with a stellar secondary are able to get away with blitzing less due to extraordinary coverage in the secondary causing coverage sacks... Just as I said above. But that is neither here nor there, its basically subjective.

The issue is someone stating that dts get way more sacks/pressure in every game/league and it needs immediate fixing. When the numbers show different that is just not the case. It comes down to the users ability and knowledge and that correlates to what result is produced in the game. In the games I play, if I had to pick one side of the issue (most of my opponents would agree thus far), my ends are way overpowering as they get about 4 sacks per game and hit the qb while throwing another 4 times atleast. My dts average a sack every 2 or 3 games. And no I'm not using some beast of a team. I am the Browns as always and my ends are Jabaal Sheard and Everett Brown (free agent signing), my lbs are Wimbley (VIA trade) and Gocong. And these are user vs user games.


I cannot upload the screen shots from my phone but I will when I am at my laptop tomorrow.

[Senator Palmer]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

Thanks for the acknowledgement CRMosier, appreciate it. But unless my eyes have been fooling me for the past few years, I have seen multiple teams in the NFL attack passers with only 4, and have big success with it. The Vikings a few seasons ago led the league in sacks with 44, yet were at the bottom in blitz percentage. The Colts almost exclusively send 4. The vast majority of their sacks and pressure comes from their base rush. They beat six all the time and it didn't all come from mugging the line of scrimmage.

Right now the for Giants, Eagles, and Vikings are in the top 5 for sacks with 21, 18, and 17 respectively. All three of them rely on the 4 man rush to create consistent pressure -- only blitzing sparingly on passing downs. The Giants are the only ones I know use a lot of mugging the at the line.

Don't know how much spare time you've got but here's Freeney's sacks from 2010. None of them had more than 4 coming. My elite ends don't shrink the pocket like this...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0nPm1SDItms" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

And how many of those blitzes had lb/s showing blitz to force an lineman to commit to hit and there for allow 1 on 1 matchup across the line or a mismatch? And you are right, teams with a stellar secondary are able to get away with blitzing less due to extraordinary coverage in the secondary causing coverage sacks... Just as I said above. But that is neither here nor there, its basically subjective.

The issue is someone stating that dts get way more sacks/pressure in every game/league and it needs immediate fixing. When the numbers show different that is just not the case. It comes down to the users ability and knowledge and that correlates to what result is produced in the game. In the games I play, if I had to pick one side of the issue (most of my opponents would agree thus far), my ends are way overpowering as they get about 4 sacks per game and hit the qb while throwing another 4 times atleast. My dts average a sack every 2 or 3 games. And no I'm not using some beast of a team. I am the Browns as always and my ends are Jabaal Sheard and Everett Brown (free agent signing), my lbs are Wimbley (VIA trade) and Gocong. And these are user vs user games.


I cannot upload the screen shots from my phone but I will when I am at my laptop tomorrow.

If you can honestly try and tell us that DTs getting too much pressure and DEs getting almost 0 pressure is not a problem in this game, then I can honestly tell you that you have never played the game.

Simple as that. Pressure does not mean sacks, it means pressure. I don't care if you can pull out stats that show DEs/OLBs getting sacks, because that doesn't account for the 99% of plays that they get completely shut down. The elite DEs/OLBs get consistent pressure on the QB all game long, and when they don't, it's because they are being double-teamed all game.

But in Madden, you almost never get double-teamed, and elite DEs and OLBs get absolutely 0 pressure. And then, there is the random one play a game where the O line completely forgets to block that DE/OLB, and you get a sack. Does that 1 sack automatically erase the fact that there is still a HUGE problem in the way DEs/OLBs get pressure? No. But hey, if you find that enjoyable, more power to ya...

[poopoop]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

These types of posts are honestly what I love to see! Too many people fail to acheivements something on this game (or any game) and are always quick to blame the game and never take any responsibility for their own part in the situation. So thank you very much, it is awesome to see someone who is trying to improve an area they are lacking!

However... Im not speaking of a 4 man rush. You cannot realistically send 4 men vs the offenses 5 or 6 blockers and expect to get pressure. It doesn't happen often in Madden or the NFL minus a screw up in blocking assignments. Any football coach will tell you that. Yes if the QB sits back there long enough eventually one of your guys will get there and get the coverage sack but realistically it won't happen often. Expecting to get consistent pressure from a 4 man rush even with Peppers at end is nonsensical. Most passing plays in the NFL have 6 blockers even if one of them is a back or te left in to chip the end before going into their routes. Me ends and outside linebackers get mega pressure because I force them into a two man game in concert with each other.

Is this serious?

2010 Lions rushed 4 or less over 80% of the time which I believe lead the league. They were 6th in NFL in sacks. Granted Suh lead their team.

Indy rushed 4 2nd most and had Mathis/Freeney combine for 21 sacks. One of the best tandems in the league. 2009 both were top 10 in QB hurries in the same defense.

You ever play Madden on All-Madden with the Colts?

[huskerwr38]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

And how many of those blitzes had lb/s showing blitz to force an lineman to commit to hit and there for allow 1 on 1 matchup across the line or a mismatch? And you are right, teams with a stellar secondary are able to get away with blitzing less due to extraordinary coverage in the secondary causing coverage sacks... Just as I said above. But that is neither here nor there, its basically subjective.

The issue is someone stating that dts get way more sacks/pressure in every game/league and it needs immediate fixing. When the numbers show different that is just not the case. It comes down to the users ability and knowledge and that correlates to what result is produced in the game. In the games I play, if I had to pick one side of the issue (most of my opponents would agree thus far), my ends are way overpowering as they get about 4 sacks per game and hit the qb while throwing another 4 times atleast. My dts average a sack every 2 or 3 games. And no I'm not using some beast of a team. I am the Browns as always and my ends are Jabaal Sheard and Everett Brown (free agent signing), my lbs are Wimbley (VIA trade) and Gocong. And these are user vs user games.


I cannot upload the screen shots from my phone but I will when I am at my laptop tomorrow.

Can you show us the numbers then?

[I_Tyler_Durden_I]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

Can you show us the numbers then?

Even if these numbers won't tell the entire story anyway, it would be nice to see them and not only to talk about them as a given fact
</O>
But to add some more oil to the fire:<O></O>
DT’s and Power-DE’s are dominating the Pass-Rush. As mentioned numerous times before, it’s not all about getting sacks, it’s about how pressure develops. When you can get pressure (or feel it) thru the middle, a split second after the snap (just as long as it takes to hit the Lineman once and throw him away like a dirt bag) you will never be able to something, like buying time by rolling out or stepping up. The only thing you can do is hit a button to get rid of the ball and get picked if everything is going wrong. Pressure from the DT’s may happen sometimes, but in Madden 12 it is the only way pressure develops. One part of the game I liked more in 11, 10, 09,…<O></O>
Oh and yes, this problem also appeared in NCAA 12 and was fixed.

BTW: Can't wait for a tuner... NHL had one today.... :o

[KBLover]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

But in Madden, you almost never get double-teamed, and elite DEs and OLBs get absolutely 0 pressure. And then, there is the random one play a game where the O line completely forgets to block that DE/OLB, and you get a sack. Does that 1 sack automatically erase the fact that there is still a HUGE problem in the way DEs/OLBs get pressure? No. But hey, if you find that enjoyable, more power to ya...

Yeah, and it's driving me up a wall when I use the Ravens. I've tried all kinds of blitz packages, multiple 3-4 sets, 4-3 sets, Psycho, 3-3-5, 2-4-5, 1-5-5, 4-6, all trying to get Suggs to be the maniac he is in real life.

Even tried moving Suggs around - put him on the strong side, the weak side, strong DE, weak DE, wide edge rush with him coming off the edge, 4-3 pinch rush with him off the edge - doesn't matter. Shifting LBs strong/weak and blitzing him, blitzing 2 LBs to form an overload - nothing.

It doesn't help that shifting just changes angle, can't change gaps.

[delimeat567]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

If you turn down Pass Blocking you will usually see less suction blocks and more successful blitzes. Turn down Pass Rushing if you are blowing by them too fast then.

I have 10 sacks in 8 games with Demarcus Ware (admittedly, he is a 99 and the star of my defense). That is a few too many to be realistic, but I enjoy his production and he feels like a freak. When the QB has to keep the HB in to block, you know your LBs are getting pressure =D

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

Is this serious?

2010 Lions rushed 4 or less over 80% of the time which I believe lead the league. They were 6th in NFL in sacks. Granted Suh lead their team.

Indy rushed 4 2nd most and had Mathis/Freeney combine for 21 sacks. One of the best tandems in the league. 2009 both were top 10 in QB hurries in the same defense.

You ever play Madden on All-Madden with the Colts?

LOL - why bother bringing in real football knowledge? (sarcasm off). I find it funny how he said it depends on how knowledgeable the player is when it comes to getting pressure. Teams with elite front 4s in a 4-3 scheme are designed to get pressure WITHOUT blitzing. That's the whole point! Yes, you can get pressure when you blitz. Yes, I would agree pressure should be less of a factor with sub par players in this scheme. However, when you have 3 of the premier pass rushers on your line, those elite ends should be more of a factor than they are. I don't want sacks every play. I also don't think much tweaking needs to be done, but the animations in the middle where DTs are able to shrug off the guards/centers with power moves and the ends are not able to generate any pressure absolutely needs to be fixed. NFL teams in the 4-3 do not relentlessly blitz when they have elite players up front, that negates the purpose of having those players and playing in the scheme.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

Even if these numbers won't tell the entire story anyway, it would be nice to see them and not only to talk about them as a given fact
>
But to add some more oil to the fire:<o></o>
DT’s and Power-DE’s are dominating the Pass-Rush. As mentioned numerous times before, it’s not all about getting sacks, it’s about how pressure develops. When you can get pressure (or feel it) thru the middle, a split second after the snap (just as long as it takes to hit the Lineman once and throw him away like a dirt bag) you will never be able to something, like buying time by rolling out or stepping up. The only thing you can do is hit a button to get rid of the ball and get picked if everything is going wrong. Pressure from the DT’s may happen sometimes, but in Madden 12 it is the only way pressure develops. One part of the game I liked more in 11, 10, 09,…<o></o>
Oh and yes, this problem also appeared in NCAA 12 and was fixed.

BTW: Can't wait for a tuner... NHL had one today.... :o

This post is spot on. This same problem WAS in fact fixed with a tuner in NCAA 12 and guys have said it made the game 100 times better.

[raguel]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

But in Madden, you almost never get double-teamed...

There is no double team pass blocking in Madden. You'll see a defender engaging 2 or more pass blockers in succession (meaning he will beat the first, then engage the second, etc), so if we are talking about Madden and pressure, we're only talking about defenders winning their 1 on 1 battle.

[poopoop]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

If you turn down Pass Blocking you will usually see less suction blocks and more successful blitzes. Turn down Pass Rushing if you are blowing by them too fast then.

I have 10 sacks in 8 games with Demarcus Ware (admittedly, he is a 99 and the star of my defense). That is a few too many to be realistic, but I enjoy his production and he feels like a freak. When the QB has to keep the HB in to block, you know your LBs are getting pressure =D

Difficulty level?
And what are pass blocking / defensive sliders set at?

A lot of the reason Ware is effective though probably comes from his 99 Power Move, 95 Block Shed rating (default rosters). This issue is much more apparent with finesse guys.

Watching someone like Freeney 97 FNV 73 PMV on All Madden is hilarious. Even with the pass block slider at 0.

[fringeelement]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

So, getting back to the actual topic of what tuners can address: what about simmed stats? I know it doesn't bother a lot of you, but the awful QB completion %s are killing the game for a few of us. Can this be fixed via tuners or are we stuck with it until the next patch (at the very least)?

[Nza]

Re: Is there any information on what will be adjusted via TUNERS as opposed to patche

I was under the impression tuners were in-game gameplay adjustments mostly aimed at any balance issues - e.g. toning down FG blocking may have been a tuner instead, or fullbacks being particularly poor at identifying lead blocks etc. Stuff sliders alone can't solve since they are gameplay wide and not situational. I was also under the impression tuners had a slight online-gamer bias, i.e. a way to combat serious glitches.

So I wouldn't think stuff like sim stats and UDFA bodies etc can be a tuner set, but maybe I misinterpreted their purpose.