Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

[pegout]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

My video was on default sliders.

what default slider? rookie pro all pro all madden?

[GameTape]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

what default slider? rookie pro all pro all madden?

All-pro setting.

[GameTape]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

If you run a 3-4, you arent supposed to get majority of sacks from DE, OLB should get the sacks.

My point is the interior pass rush is just as effective as the edge pass rush. If anything you are proving my point.

[pegout]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

If you run a 3-4, you arent supposed to get majority of sacks from DE, OLB should get the sacks.

My point is the interior pass rush is just as effective as the edge pass rush. If anything you are proving my point.

not really. i dont blitz my olb's very much, maybe 25% of pass plays, other then that ill hot route one of my olb's to gaurd the hb and blitz my mlb.

[GameTape]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

not really. i dont blitz my olb's very much, maybe 25% of pass plays, other then that ill hot route one of my olb's to gaurd the hb and blitz my mlb.

Then most your pass rush comes from the interior. My point is pass rush from the interior is too strong, and not strong enough from the edge.

[pegout]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

Then most your pass rush comes from the interior. My point is pass rush from the interior is too strong, and not strong enough from the edge.

yea i get that. but i can be fixed with coaching schemes. if i wanted to my leading pass rushers would be one of my olb's but i drop them back more often then not

[Chickensoup]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

I don't care about sack totals. I care about more realistic gameplay, and the DE/OT interaction is not that realistic (for the most part the Lineplay overall isnt realistic though). correct DE/OLB play (4-3/3-4 respectively of course) alongside correct OT play would go a long way towards skewing playcalling choices in a more realistic manner. The pocket is never truly made right now and outside running is way more prevalent than in the NFL specifically because of DE/OLB interactions with OT in madden.

specific plays like draw plays are super unrealistic in madden because of the combined issue. 99 times out of 100 the play is instantly bounced to the outside against another user (not that many people ever run the ball but thats part of the problem isnt it?). This is because a) the edge is never set by the outside rusher (DE/OLB) b) theres no pocket created because of it and theres very small lanes created inside (i.e. all the lineman stand each other up and thats that)

unrealistic as all heck........what really happens on a draw play is that there are absolutely gigantic holes created right up the gut because the DE/OLB are edge rushing and creating the pocket and this leaves 2(3 if 3-4) lineman in front of the play and LB only to stop the run. This is how the play is designed to work and it doesnt work because of this very issue of little to no DE pass rush.

In all reality I understand why the Madden franchise doesnt care about line play. its not exciting at all and almsot noone understands it anyways. But real football fans know how wrong this game plays. You know who I think is the best player in the entire NFL? Joe Thomas. LT for the Browns. Do 99.999999999999% of players even know who he is? nope. but they know who Michael Vick is and they know that if they want to throw with him they don't ever have a pocket truly created so they can drop him back 20 yards without consequence. (provided they don't get nano blitzed)

But, no matter what those people are going to buy the game anyways. Madden really needs to take a year off all the crappy extra stuff they put in (never met anyone who has truly enjoyed superstar more as a safety.....) make Madden 13 just like 12 but make Line play realistic so they know how to get it right THEN do all the extra stupid stuff. They can even add all the less code intensive franchise/scouting stuff to their hearts content to add that to the back of the box if they want to as long as they get this issue right. Might make some of the kids upset that the plays they are used to running (i.e. dropping back 20 yards, all running plays to the outside) dont work anymore with realistic DE play but it'll make the game better off in the long run to have things be more realistic.

[Jarodd21]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

Also, Jarodd, didn't you say in your slider thread that you blitz about 50-60 % of the time? I think Gametape's issue is the lack of production when you're just bringing a base rush.

Yeah I do blitz at that rate but I did get a decent amount of sacks from a regular 4 man rush and most of the sacks came from J.Tuck from simply spreading my Dline out so he can get off the edge.. By doing that my DTs usually get caught up in a double team. So its all about the line shifting IMO.. If you pinch your line in or leave it as is without spreading them out the DTs might get through more or at an even pace as the DEs because the DEs get caught up inside of the tackle and that pretty much in the same position as the DT..

[Jarodd21]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

All-pro setting.

Well I don't know how it operates on All-Pro settings. That might be the case. On All-Madden DTs aren't getting through like that.. Try spreading your Dline out the next time you do some testing too.

[CRMosier_LM]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

Playcalling isnt the reason because im referring to the 4-man pass rush, for both me & cpu.

Did you see the video i posted? I provided visual evidence, statistical evidence...and im not the only one who has complained about this issue.

You and others are getting realistic sack totals...and im not quite sure why...but it doesnt mean everything is fine...this is still an issue.

I can pretty much guarantee that play calling and adjustments is 100% of the reason why others are getting more pressure. In the real nfl, coaches call exotic stunts, slants and two man takes to get pressure with 4 vs 5 olineman. Do they get pressure every pass? No. Do they get pressure 50% of the time, I'd say no. The reason they get pressure is that the offense doesn't realize what is coming and/or blocking assignments gets missed. There really is no way to simulate that in a video game. Do we want the dev team to code in a random circumstance where dlineman forget to block purposely?... Check no, we want more control not less. I don't want the code deciding the outcomes of my games I want to be the deciding factor.

[Obnoxious]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

The LE and #2 DT gets about %95 of all sacks in each of my Franchises. It's odd.

[GameTape]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

yea i get that. but i can be fixed with coaching schemes. if i wanted to my leading pass rushers would be one of my olb's but i drop them back more often then not

I dont play franchise mode, so even if this could be fixed through coaching schemes, im out of luck. This is something EA should fix.

[GameTape]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

I can pretty much guarantee that play calling and adjustments is 100% of the reason why others are getting more pressure. In the real nfl, coaches call exotic stunts, slants and two man takes to get pressure with 4 vs 5 olineman. Do they get pressure every pass? No. Do they get pressure 50% of the time, I'd say no. The reason they get pressure is that the offense doesn't realize what is coming and/or blocking assignments gets missed. There really is no way to simulate that in a video game. Do we want the dev team to code in a random circumstance where dlineman forget to block purposely?... Check no, we want more control not less. I don't want the code deciding the outcomes of my games I want to be the deciding factor.

I never said the problem was not enough pressure. I said the problem is too much pressure from DT, and not enough pressure from DE/OLB. I provided a video as visual evidence. Its very easy to fix this if they would simply allow DE to push OL backwards, and not allow DT swim moves to be so effective.

[GameTape]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

I have been testing this issue extensively, this problem is persistent on all difficulty levels, on all gameplay sliders, on all coaching sliders.

Edge pass rush is not good, interior pass rush is too good. The only way defenders can pressure is to completely disengage from the OL with a swim/spin move.

You guys who are getting realistic sack totals, can any of you upload a video like mine?

Im convinced you guys are blitzing, or are user controlling the DE. There is no other way.

This applies to 4-3 defense only.

In 3-4 its more complicated because you have to blitz, and the OLB can become unblocked. In 3-4 defense the DE should not get pressure like it should in a 4-3.

[roadman]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

I have been testing this issue extensively, this problem is persistent on all difficulty levels, on all gameplay sliders, on all coaching sliders.

Edge pass rush is not good, interior pass rush is too good. The only way defenders can pressure is to completely disengage from the OL with a swim/spin move.

You guys who are getting realistic sack totals, can any of you upload a video like mine?

Im convinced you guys are blitzing, or are user controlling the DE. There is no other way.

This applies to 4-3 defense only.

In 3-4 its more complicated because you have to blitz, and the OLB can become unblocked. In 3-4 defense the DE should not get pressure like it should in a 4-3.

Did you test in franchise mode with the priority sliders? You mentioned you don't play franchise mode, so, I'm assuming you didn't. That is where some of the folks have been getting decent results from the DE's.

The way I see it, online players only will be able to notice the hard charging DT's, offline franchise players are able to control the issue with changing the priorities and receiving decent results.