The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning in 2021

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

I'm sure the contract is very specific and I don't think 2K would have bought the license if the contract was overly restrictive.

Based on what? What if 2K approached EA with a proposal, which seems likely. Why wouldn’t the NFL with a very specific contract that limits 2K to what they proposed and the NFL, and probably EA, agreed to?

Here’s the thing. Whatever “sim” means in this context, however 2K got back in the game, the products they want to make are already set. There is no searching the contract for loopholes, and they will base future work based on the response to what they release.

Anyone that is trying to sell a narrative in which 2K’s first move after inking a new deal with the NFL is to get tricky is just not being realistic.

My theory is pretty simple. When people note the license mattering, it’s not the shield on the box. It’s the ability of Joe Schmo football fan to role play as his favorite team, taking them to the Super Bowl. It’s why we want names and not just numbers.

I think 2K will be required to not only not use real life schedules and league conferences and divisions, they will be expected to prevent users from modifying the game to do that.

I expect a game to ship with a gameplay feature set like SuperMegaBaseball, plus a large Ultimate Team type of made. The game will have assorted stars, and maybe legends. The gameplay will be very 2K football, with generic guys filling in rosters.

Or I’m totally wrong. Because we all lack key information to actually know what the intent of 2K and the NFL, and what they mean by non-simulation. But I think it is a mistake to assume 2K sees a large enough sim community to justify getting tricky with how they interpret non-simulation.

[J_Posse]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Based on what? What if 2K approached EA with a proposal, which seems likely. Why wouldn’t the NFL with a very specific contract that limits 2K to what they proposed and the NFL, and probably EA, agreed to?

Here’s the thing. Whatever “sim” means in this context, however 2K got back in the game, the products they want to make are already set. There is no searching the contract for loopholes, and they will base future work based on the response to what they release.

Anyone that is trying to sell a narrative in which 2K’s first move after inking a new deal with the NFL is to get tricky is just not being realistic.

My theory is pretty simple. When people note the license mattering, it’s not the shield on the box. It’s the ability of Joe Schmo football fan to role play as his favorite team, taking them to the Super Bowl. It’s why we want names and not just numbers.

I think 2K will be required to not only not use real life schedules and league conferences and divisions, they will be expected to prevent users from modifying the game to do that.

I expect a game to ship with a gameplay feature set like SuperMegaBaseball, plus a large Ultimate Team type of made. The game will have assorted stars, and maybe legends. The gameplay will be very 2K football, with generic guys filling in rosters.

Or I’m totally wrong. Because we all lack key information to actually know what the intent of 2K and the NFL, and what they mean by non-simulation. But I think it is a mistake to assume 2K sees a large enough sim community to justify getting tricky with how they interpret non-simulation.

What did you mean by approaching EA? To my knowledge the two publishers couldn't cut a deal amongst each other. Plus, there is the added "bad blood" (remember the rumors of EA attempting a "hostile takeover") between publishers with also the prickly history of EA & Visual Concepts.

I agree with a majority of your points and maybe 2K will be fine with pushing a "Playground" - type of game (or Blitz or NFL Street knock-off). It all depends on their projections and what they believe they can achieve financially by gaining the NFL "non-sim" license.

My only concern is that all those titles have a limited (some very limited) scope and don't sell as well as the "sim" based products historically.

And we all know they'll want to tap into the "social"/online sports gaming community because that is where the added revenue (through "card packs" & microtransactions) comes in.

I agree that they've likely focus tested, researched and brainstormed to try to appeal to a wider, more financially fruitful audience. And they'll attempt to tap into different audiences through mobile platforms, maybe PC gamers or the Nintendo Switch.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

[zello144]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

I was playing NBA 2k20 last night and did the outlet passing drill in MyCareer. I was pretending I was throwing passes like a QB.

[Napjcjd]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

NFL 2k5 has a better challenge system then current gen Madden games wont be surprised if this arcade game has a better one to lol

[OrangeCrush]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

I can't wait for this non simulation 2K football game, I bet it will be so much better than EA's non simulation football game

[tuckermaine]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

As I said in that “other “ forum ...I don’t care if 2k is 3 on 3 football...I’m buying it.
New Franchise for EA ...Talk Shows ..really !
There is so much to fix in gameplay and between the lines in this game...looking forward to the 2k experience again...!

[canes21]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

I'm personally not expecting anything more than an NFL Playgrounds type of game, but boy, I'd be in heaven if they were able to skirt around and make a game that was "authentic" and not "simulation", but I don't see that happening at all. Heck, I'd be happy if we got APF 2k21 and was again without a franchise and was only focused on MyTeam. I also don't see that being what we get either, EA would have a fit if 2k was given the chance to cut into their MUT revenue.

I;ll expect NFL Playgrounds and be pleasantly surprised if it is anything more. I've about given up hope of 2k ever being allowed to make a true NFL game again. The NFL and EA like each other too much and Madden sells well enough despite how behind it is compared to any other AAA games, sports or not.

[illwill10]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

I'm personally not expecting anything more than an NFL Playgrounds type of game, but boy, I'd be in heaven if they were able to skirt around and make a game that was "authentic" and not "simulation", but I don't see that happening at all. Heck, I'd be happy if we got APF 2k21 and was again without a franchise and was only focused on MyTeam. I also don't see that being what we get either, EA would have a fit if 2k was given the chance to cut into their MUT revenue.

I;ll expect NFL Playgrounds and be pleasantly surprised if it is anything more. I've about given up hope of 2k ever being allowed to make a true NFL game again. The NFL and EA like each other too much and Madden sells well enough despite how behind it is compared to any other AAA games, sports or not.

Honestly the chances of the license opening up are low. Yeah it was said that they considered it but was blown away by EA's "plan of Innovation" and that it wasn't close. EA will hit that revenue benchmark to get the final year of contract. Unless for some reason, loot boxes and microtransactions gets taken out of game because of laws, EA will easily hit that number. I felt this would have been the time for them to open it up.

Yeah Floor is NFL Playgrounds and Ceiling is APF. I don't think the ceiling would be anything more than APF-esque. I'm sure their contract has strict guidelines. I really don't want Playgrounds. Even going by WWE Battlegrounds, not some thing I'm interested in. I rather it be NFL Street-esque than Playgrounds. I would love APF, but highly unlikely. Still would like a Super Mega Football.
I feel that all 2k would need is a decent Franchise mode of sorts and it'll be a success with how Madden treats it lol.

[canes21]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

I've accepted that 2k will never make another NFL 2k game. Maybe I'll be wrong one day and the NFL allows EA and 2k to compete they used to 15 years ago, but at this point I will never get my hopes up for it. While it was nice to get a bit excited with the news of the NFL and 2k being back together for anything, I've come back down to earth and have come to expect nothing more than NFL Playgrounds.

It is what it is. Obviously the exclusivity that EA pays for is worth it to the NFL. You'd think there would be a model that would allow multiple NFL "sims" that made even more money, but the NFL has made it apparent that either doesn't exist or they don't care about exploring that option.

I'll keep checking on this forum for news, but my expectations are low and that's not because of anything 2k has done, it's because I doubt EA would pay all the money they do only for 2k to find a loophole to exploit.

[Rayzaa]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

I'm personally not expecting anything more than an NFL Playgrounds type of game, but boy, I'd be in heaven if they were able to skirt around and make a game that was "authentic" and not "simulation", but I don't see that happening at all. Heck, I'd be happy if we got APF 2k21 and was again without a franchise and was only focused on MyTeam. I also don't see that being what we get either, EA would have a fit if 2k was given the chance to cut into their MUT revenue.

I;ll expect NFL Playgrounds and be pleasantly surprised if it is anything more. I've about given up hope of 2k ever being allowed to make a true NFL game again. The NFL and EA like each other too much and Madden sells well enough despite how behind it is compared to any other AAA games, sports or not.

Yeah, it means they may have to step up their game and give a **** again. The horror!

It's the owners that voted for EA to be exclusive. Why ask them to vote? They aren't the ones that made EA take things out of the game. The owners don't give two turds and have never played the game.

[canes21]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Yeah, it means they may have to step up their game and give a **** again. The horror!

It's the owners that voted for EA to be exclusive. Why ask them to vote? They aren't the ones that made EA take things out of the game. The owners don't give two turds and have never played the game.

You won't find me disagreeing, but I've got no reason to believe things will ever change. Madden continues to sell well each year, probably has more to do with the license than quality of game, but the NFL is happy.

In my head it seems like the NFL could make more money if they allowed multiple companies to make games, charged more than half of the exclusive license, and then made royalties on top of that, but that doesn't seem to be as plausible as I believe, or the NFL has no interest in doing that.

I mean, if EA is paying $10 for exclusive rights, why can't the NFL charge $7 for EA and 2k to both obtain non-exclusive rights, and then continue to get their share of the sales? I know that's extremely simplified, but I have dreamt long enough in life about a modern 2k NFL game. I've finally hit the point of believing it will never come. I guess EA and the NFL broke me on that front. Still doesn't mean I'll ever spend money on Madden unless that series finds a way to right the wrongs of the last 15 years, but I've come to expect NFL 2k to never come back.

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Honestly, it doesn't matter anymore. 2K could absolutely prove me wrong, but the sports market changed last gen. I think social media is the primary culprit, but ever since EA took the exclusive contract with the NFL, only soccer has two AAA games (I'm assuming PES is AAA, don't actually know).

I've said this for several years, and the fact that Sony will now have to make MLB The Show for all consoles is proof of this. No one, not Microsoft nor Nintendo, and not even EA or 2K will make a baseball game, and it's because there is no path to a profitable competition. And EA and 2K have both suffered in this regard.

The only way Sony gives up that advantage is that they were forced by MLB to do so. I assume that EA tried to get the license, but I suspect would only do so if it was exclusive, so MLB gave Sony the option to match. But that's just speculation.

No one is making another hockey game, and NBA live is basically non-existent in terms of sales. Between growing development costs and the price of licensing, it just doesn't make sense to go AAA. I don't think the NFL can sell two AAA licenses anymore.

[canes21]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

The sad truth is we will likely never know. I do see your points, though. I don't completely agree with you because I do think competition can still work.

I do think in a hypothetical situation where EA and 2k are making NFL games that the NFL would receive more money from each company than one company paying for exclusive rights. I also think overall sales would be higher as there are plenty of people who refuse to buy Madden that would buy 2k. There are plenty that would buy both, and there are still plenty that will stay with Madden forever.

Obviously something is causing this scenario to never play out in reality. Maybe EA is paying so much for exclusivity that I don't realize just how much they are paying for it. Maybe it simply boils down to the NFL only wanting one game for person preference reasons. I don't know. All I know is I hate it. I'm a very pro-choice person when it comes to products and services and am a big believer that we deserve all the options possible in life, but I don't think I'll ever see another NFL game that isn't Madden in my lifetime.

Maybe we will get lucky and Gooddell steps retires and a new commish is all about opening the NFL license up across all media platforms. No more DirecTV exclusive Season Ticket, no more exclusive video game licenses, etc. That's all a pipedream, though.

[steeleye5]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Honestly, it doesn't matter anymore. 2K could absolutely prove me wrong, but the sports market changed last gen. I think social media is the primary culprit, but ever since EA took the exclusive contract with the NFL, only soccer has two AAA games (I'm assuming PES is AAA, don't actually know).

I've said this for several years, and the fact that Sony will now have to make MLB The Show for all consoles is proof of this. No one, not Microsoft nor Nintendo, and not even EA or 2K will make a baseball game, and it's because there is no path to a profitable competition. And EA and 2K have both suffered in this regard.

The only way Sony gives up that advantage is that they were forced by MLB to do so. I assume that EA tried to get the license, but I suspect would only do so if it was exclusive, so MLB gave Sony the option to match. But that's just speculation.

No one is making another hockey game, and NBA live is basically non-existent in terms of sales. Between growing development costs and the price of licensing, it just doesn't make sense to go AAA. I don't think the NFL can sell two AAA licenses anymore.

Yeah, the sad reality is sports gaming as a whole just isn't a profitable business expenditure anymore. Soccer can hold 2 franchises because it's a worldwide phenomenon and Super Mega Baseball works because it's more arcadey and also has in-depth creation tools that allow for you to make any team you want (which obviously means people who want to can sit there and make the MLB if they desire). Realistically speaking though, there's no market for more than one officially licensed game anymore because people don't really buy them anymore.

Sure there's always the possibility that 2k ends up wowing us but the NFL isn't just going to jump ship, especially after the contract with EA, and also the last football game 2k made was a sim. NFL is probably just allowing this for extra revenue but we can't expect anything about it until there's a trailer out that proves that it may end up being a great game.

But really, I think it just all boils down to no one wants to buy a sports game because they hate the yearly model that the genre has crafted (among other issues as well).

[canes21]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

People don't buy sports games anymore? What? Am I misreading what you are trying to say?