The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning in 2021

[illwill10]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Competition killed off MLB 2K, NHL 2K, and EA Golf. Competition has nearly killed off NBA Live. None of those games were franchise ending bad games. But the way social media works, when you combine gamers and sports fans, you get a climate in which one game isn't just preferred, it becomes the crowning champ by vanquishing its opponent.

The notion that either EA or 2K wants to go head to head in football games is far-fetched. With an exclusive license, you might not make your numbers and really come in low. That's worst-case scenario. If you are going head to head with another AAA publisher, you might not sell 200K copies. You might not sell 100K copies.

It's a romantic notion that competition makes everything better. In the case of sports video games, I believe in the age of social media, competition benefitting both companies is impossible and is so slanted that regardless of the gap in quality, one will thoroughly dominate the other in sales.

I wish there were competition and multiple games per sport. I've seen no evidence, even on these boards, that the current climate would ever support two games.

I can understand. Its not like in the 6th generation where you'll see competing sports games being neck to back. Last 10 or so years, there is a big gap in sales and most of times quality. 2k had the exclusive 3rd Party MLB license and couldn't compete with a Sony exclusive The Show. 2k has near ran Live out of the building. From 09-19, they got canceled 4 times, and while EA has the money, I don't see them matching a 7 yr 1.1 billion licensing deal for a game that can't stay afloat

I just miss those PS2/Xbox days where we had several options per sport. Nowadays, its just one major sports game per sport. With cost of license and development continuing to increase, I don't see a change coming.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Competition killed off MLB 2K, NHL 2K, and EA Golf. Competition has nearly killed off NBA Live. None of those games were franchise ending bad games. But the way social media works, when you combine gamers and sports fans, you get a climate in which one game isn't just preferred, it becomes the crowning champ by vanquishing its opponent.



The notion that either EA or 2K wants to go head to head in football games is far-fetched. With an exclusive license, you might not make your numbers and really come in low. That's worst-case scenario. If you are going head to head with another AAA publisher, you might not sell 200K copies. You might not sell 100K copies.



It's a romantic notion that competition makes everything better. In the case of sports video games, I believe in the age of social media, competition benefitting both companies is impossible and is so slanted that regardless of the gap in quality, one will thoroughly dominate the other in sales.



I wish there were competition and multiple games per sport. I've seen no evidence, even on these boards, that the current climate would ever support two games.

This may be true but at least the best game will win. Personally I think the market could hold 2 football titles. Madden has its fan base locked in and 2k will do fine with the fan base that love their basketball games.

Also If 1 game does win out without exclusives it will be the game more people preferred and that developer will have spent the money creating a great game rather than paying the league enough to block out a challenger. Hard to complain when consumers decide a game’s fate.


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[Jr.]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

I always wondered why the NFL wanted only one company to make their games. Wouldn't less money from multiple companies be ultimately more than a lot of money from one company?

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

This may be true but at least the best game will win. Personally I think the market could hold 2 football titles. Madden has its fan base locked in and 2k will do fine with the fan base that love their basketball games.

Also If 1 game does win out without exclusives it will be the game more people preferred and that developer will have spent the money creating a great game rather than paying the league enough to block out a challenger. Hard to complain when consumers decide a game’s fate.


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But that is subjective. Trying to square the comments, in this thread and that Roundtable, with the notion that people are even close to being objective is pretty hard. And if you follow the hockey or baseball threads, there are plenty of folks that would prefer NHL 2K and MVP baseball from EA. But EA has been able to make a baseball game for years, and won't even try. And 2K gave up on hockey and gave it to EA.

I'm excited to see what 2K puts out. I do have some ideas about what they will try to do, but even that is just a guess. But to expect some level of quality, there is no way to tell what a first-year game will look like, and their last football game was too long ago to use many of those resources.

I'm sure they have been working on something, and I'm sure they think they have a good plan to get a good game out by some date they think is relevant. Yet we all know that first releases are the least predictable in terms of quality and bugginess.

Yet, most of this thread is ready to grant 2K the license based on nothing beyond expectations for a game that absolutely no one associated with has even hinted at as even being on the table.

And know that, if first blush goes poorly, current social media prevent second chances from having much success. MLB 2K12 and NBA Live 19 were both solid releases, that would have been profitable in previous generations, but here seem to have killed off their franchises. MLB 2K13 was just a contractually required re-skin of 2K12 as 2K decided to move on from MLB. NBA Live seems to be in a similar state.

[roadman]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

I always wondered why the NFL wanted only one company to make their games. Wouldn't less money from multiple companies be ultimately more than a lot of money from one company?

No, I gave this example a few weeks ago.

There is a poster, Dr. Jones, who mainly posts in the NHL and MLB forums that used to work on the Triple Play series.

He said with the exclusive liscense, the NFL would receive more from one company vs the four or five companies that were in business.

To keep it simple, all the companies combined gave the NFL 1 million per game. The NFL and EA eliminated that with giving the NFL 100 million a year.

The numbers are just examples only.

[illwill10]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

No, I gave this example a few weeks ago.

There is a poster, Dr. Jones, who mainly posts in the NHL and MLB forums that used to work on the Triple Play series.

He said with the exclusive liscense, the NFL would receive more from one company vs the four or five companies that were in business.

To keep it simple, all the companies combined gave the NFL 1 million per game. The NFL and EA eliminated that with giving the NFL 100 million a year.

The numbers are just examples only.

Exactly. With the 7 yr 1.1 billion deal, 2k will pay 157 million a year to NBA and that's not an exclusive deal. So yeah, that's why they like exclusive deals because you can charge an absurd amount for a company to have only licensed product. That's why we don't have multiple options like in 6th gen, because most companies don't want to pay that.
If NFL ever opens up license to be non exclusive, I would expect them to have a company match what's EA is paying now.

[Hooe]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

I always wondered why the NFL wanted only one company to make their games. Wouldn't less money from multiple companies be ultimately more than a lot of money from one company?

On top of the reasons already mentioned, the NFL has been dealing with exclusives for a long time, be it with beer, apparel, sports drinks, soft drinks, pizza, etc. etc.

It's not really a surprise that they would want to treat video games similarly, that's in line with how the league handles the rest of its business.

[illwill10]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

On top of the reasons already mentioned, the NFL has been dealing with exclusives for a long time, be it with beer, apparel, sports drinks, soft drinks, pizza, etc. etc.

It's not really a surprise that they would want to treat video games similarly, that's in line with how the league handles the rest of its business.

NFL has preferred exclusive branding. Which makes this partnership with 2k almost different from the norm, even if it just a "non-simulation". Will video games be an exception for the NFL.
While I'm hoping NFL drops the exclusive license, I'm still skeptical they will make an exception for a game. I do have doubts that 2k gets a simulation license after EA deals expires after 2021 season. With the 2k game coming out probably Jun-August, I doubt a few months is enough time for NFL to decide if they will give 2k a chance to purchase license. Unless they told 2k that they will give them a chance once the EA deal expires, few months isn't enough time to decide. And depending on type of game, that will be a factor as well. If it is a mobile and/or NFL Playgrounds, than that won't "sell well"

[GiantBlue76]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

No, I gave this example a few weeks ago.

There is a poster, Dr. Jones, who mainly posts in the NHL and MLB forums that used to work on the Triple Play series.

He said with the exclusive liscense, the NFL would receive more from one company vs the four or five companies that were in business.

To keep it simple, all the companies combined gave the NFL 1 million per game. The NFL and EA eliminated that with giving the NFL 100 million a year.

The numbers are just examples only.

I disagree, slightly. The NFL has full control over who it grants a license to and how it grants it. If the license is 100m the NFL has the ability to charge that amount to anyone it wishes. Now, that being said, a company is going to be willing to pay more if they know that the license is exclusively theirs. However, how much more?. If the NFL offered an exclusive license price of 100m per year, but they offered a shared license for 80m per year, you come out ahead because now you've made 160m per year as opposed to 100m. It would be up to the licensees to determine if that investment would pay off. Given the high value of the NFL brand I would imagine it would be worth a steep price tag.

The issue the NFL is having is that 2k has shown that they can grow a brand. There is no way in the world that an NBA game should be outselling an NFL game in North America, and yet here we are. 2k has grown the NBA fan base, while Madden sales have not grown much and the NFL is not getting the growth in the fan base they want. If they were, there would be no reason to make this deal with 2k.

The other issue with having an exclusive deal with games vs. other items like apparel, beer, etc. is that consumers cannot buy another product. If Coors Light is not the exclusive NFL beer, anyone can still buy Coors Light. Not so with games, it's a completely different animal. The key for the NFL is having the control over the games. Pricing, content, etc. It wouldn't be hard to manage 2 games. The NBA has no issue doing it and it doesn't have near the resources the NFL has.

This is all a waiting game. It could amount to nothing for all we know.

[illwill10]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

I disagree, slightly. The NFL has full control over who it grants a license to and how it grants it. If the license is 100m the NFL has the ability to charge that amount to anyone it wishes. Now, that being said, a company is going to be willing to pay more if they know that the license is exclusively theirs. However, how much more?. If the NFL offered an exclusive license price of 100m per year, but they offered a shared license for 80m per year, you come out ahead because now you've made 160m per year as opposed to 100m. It would be up to the licensees to determine if that investment would pay off. Given the high value of the NFL brand I would imagine it would be worth a steep price tag.

The issue the NFL is having is that 2k has shown that they can grow a brand. There is no way in the world that an NBA game should be outselling an NFL game in North America, and yet here we are. 2k has grown the NBA fan base, while Madden sales have not grown much and the NFL is not getting the growth in the fan base they want. If they were, there would be no reason to make this deal with 2k.

The other issue with having an exclusive deal with games vs. other items like apparel, beer, etc. is that consumers cannot buy another product. If Coors Light is not the exclusive NFL beer, anyone can still buy Coors Light. Not so with games, it's a completely different animal. The key for the NFL is having the control over the games. Pricing, content, etc. It wouldn't be hard to manage 2 games. The NBA has no issue doing it and it doesn't have near the resources the NFL has.

This is all a waiting game. It could amount to nothing for all we know.

Agree with that.
NFL is strong enough brand that it can charge close to or same as well they are charging EA for a non-exclusive deal. They could bring in close to or double what they are now if they open up the license.
I agree that the 2k growth is a factor 2k has something for everyone. 2k focused on hardcore first, then focused last few years on casual market. Madden has been focused on the casual crowd for a while now, but neglected the hardcore community. That's why you see a Long Shot, Face of Franchise, and Superstar KO mode. MUT has been its most successful mode for a while now. If Madden has seen the type of growth the 2k has, I agree there wouldn't be a partnership. An NFL game should be able to dominate North American sales. And this deal occurring within two years of EA's deal is set to expire, isn't just a coincidence.

NFL likes exclusive for control as well as much they can charge. Companies want those exclusive deals so they can be "Official Partner of NFL". It does very well for sales. NFL just wants complete control of what goes into product and assurance that you don't bring negative light to NFL. Situations like the Papa John's will cause them to drop sponsors. But I can think games could be an exception since there aren't other licensed options. I just feel the original situation where 2k releasing 2k5 at $19.99 rubbed NFL the wrong way.

[tsbmolina]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Agreed. More money opportunities for the players now. Also the NFL wants to make more. We as fans of games should win here.


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You're right TecmoZack. Even as far back as 2014 players felt that having multiple NFLPA licenses would be beneficial for both competition and there wallets. Just a matter of time now until 2K locks up that NFLPA license. I embedded the video where NY Giants Super Bowl Punter Steve Weatherford talks about the players opinion on the matter back in 2014.
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[SOU7GLO]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

An advantage for 2K is the 2 year development cycle they have to develop their 2021 NFL game.

I played my 3rd game of NBA2K20 the other day and took away so many little things 2K does to immerse the user. I love all the options during timeouts, and how there’s entertainment going on in the background. My 8yr old son saw NBA2K for the first time and we laughed and were entertained by the team mascot dancing. My son also asked me why the screen shaking during free throws...imagine a QB or players being rattled and not being able to call audibles/hot routes or a player blowing an assignment due to a low composure rating affected by crowd noise and the environment.

Bill Simmons was part of the commentary and the conversation was dynamic and it flowed seamlessly. Harland thanked Simmons for being there as he was supposedly leaving the broadcast and then Simmons decided to stay. Love the banter and insight.

The amount of depth, detail, and immersion 2K is going to include in their game is going to dwarf what EA has been putting out. EA has been put on notice and their response with their next release will be telling. Wouldn’t be surprised to see a much better product from them.

[Hooe]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

The amount of depth, detail, and immersion 2K is going to include in their game is going to dwarf what EA has been putting out.

I'd be careful about setting your expectations too high.

Two years is not a lot of time to build a AAA video game from scratch. The level of detail in the current crop of AAA sports games (be it Madden, FIFA, NBA 2K, NHL, or The Show; take your pick) is the culmination of literally decades of work. On top of that, all the majors devs are currently shaking out what's going to be possible on the new consoles coming out late this year.

It's gonna take a while for whatever football game 2K is building to become whatever you are imagining in your head, if it ever even reaches that point due to license restrictions.

[michapop9]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

I'd be careful about setting your expectations too high.

Two years is not a lot of time to build a AAA video game from scratch. The level of detail in the current crop of AAA sports games (be it Madden, FIFA, NBA 2K, NHL, or The Show; take your pick) is the culmination of literally decades of work. On top of that, all the majors devs are currently shaking out what's going to be possible on the new consoles coming out late this year.

It's gonna take a while for whatever football game 2K is building to become whatever you are imagining in your head, if it ever even reaches that point due to license restrictions.

Its not from scratch, im not talking about using All Pro as a base either. Theres been a game in development for some time from my understanding. 2k was just waiting for the opportunity to have both the nfl and nflpa under contract and there were a lot of hangups at that time.

Even if the rumor is just hearsay (its from a reliable source) I don't understand how the game has to be made from scratch.

[Hooe]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Its not from scratch, im not talking about using All Pro as a base either. Theres been a game in development for some time from my understanding. 2k was just waiting for the opportunity to have both the nfl and nflpa under contract and there were a lot of hangups at that time.

Even if the rumor is just hearsay (its from a reliable source) I don't understand how the game has to be made from scratch.

Please forgive the mountain of skepticism I've brought to this thread, but over the past decade-plus on this forum we've had way too many "reliable sources" foretell the imminent arrival of incredible non-EA football video games for me to believe any of them without an article from a vetted video game journalism outlet. Pointed looks here at Joe Montana Football, Gridiron Champions, the Dirty Bird Sports college football game, the Smashmouth Project, the various 2K football revival rumors over the course of the 2010s... I'm sure I'm forgetting a few. The most we reliably know about this game right now is that it exists, it will release next year, and it has the NFL (not NFLPA) license. Anything else is unsourced hearsay.

And indeed, 2K won't be starting from absolute zero on this game - I'm sure there's lots of stable and proven low-level tech they can share from NBA 2K for rendering, audio, networking, UI, construction of AI routines, other content-building tools - but making a video game at the AAA scale is still an extremely challenging technical and artistic endeavor. It's gonna take a while, probably longer than you think, for them to build what you want.

All I'm suggesting here is maybe let's wait for the hype train to arrive at the station this time rather than party on the tracks only for it to run us over with disappointment.