The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning in 2021

[ASZEMPLE]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

There are a lot factors that led to APF 2K8 to be consider a failure based off sales. I believe this was because 1. it didn’t have the NFL license and 2. It was marketed extremely poorly, it also was rebranded as All Pro Football 2K8, which essentially was a brand new title, and outside of 2K fans looking for the next 2K football game, no one knew about APF 2K8.

I don’t believe it failed because of what they were trying to do with this game, they were also 10 years to early with this format. MUT makes 800 million a year for Madden, and APF was the first to try their hand at it. The 2K brand is a big as ever now, and with social media, if APF was released today I could see it being very successful and have a very competitive online scene, and they would have no trouble marketing it.


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[Kanobi]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

It doesn't matter how good the gameplay is, when there no depth, that means there is little replay ability.

Truth. For me, it was (and still is) the opposite in regards to Madden...no matter how deep the off-field modes are, if the on-the-field experience (gameplay, presentation, etc) isn't good then that kills replay ability. This is why I owned both Madden 05 and NFL 2k5 because, in a weird way, they combined for the perfect gaming experience. I played NFL2k5 for the gameplay and Madden '05 for the franchise mode/team management experience. Of the two, however, I'd argue NFL2k5 was more complete.

[noshun]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Have people who've given up on APF 2K8, tried Javo's APFe Editor recently?His editor breathed new life into that game from what I've seen.
I don't know why 2k hasn't hired Javo yet? He'd be a real asset going forward 2k football wise. I'm going to inquire on his behalf.

[illwill10]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Agreed. I think many people forget this was competing with NCAA too, so two franchise-based games fully licensed for their respective IPs. They took a different path, think we all agree it was the wrong one and wished they continued down it a bit further to allow them to pivot from their mistakes.

I've played more NCAA 14 since the NFL season ended than Madden this year. The power of effective gameplay loops - I don't even watch college football.

I would have bought a fully generic 2k Football game. But it would have needed 2k5 level depth and way more customization. I feel with a fully generic roster, it gives developers more freedom to highlight strengths and weaknesses of players. You have freedom to have truly unique players and rosters with generic players. Then if you have off the field in depth features that goes hand in hand with generic rosters, that would give it more replay ability.

I bought NCAA 14 in mid September and played it hard until late December. I really enjoyed it. But not at all since. After a while, the flaws come out and hard to ignore. Poor AI, repetitive predictable AI playcalling, gameplay issues, repetitive experience. After a while, you know what to expect from AI. Most teams ran no huddle spread option, top teams were filled with 90+ OVR filled rosters, from ATH QB had high 80s-90 speed, AI Ball carriers still didn't use special moves and were a non factor, broken plays. Then presentation was so repetitive and how there were no post game

[illwill10]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Truth. For me, it was (and still is) the opposite in regards to Madden...no matter how deep the off-field modes are, if the on-the-field experience (gameplay, presentation, etc) isn't good then that kills replay ability. This is why I owned both Madden 05 and NFL 2k5 because, in a weird way, they combined for the perfect gaming experience. I played NFL2k5 for the gameplay and Madden '05 for the franchise mode/team management experience. Of the two, however, I'd argue NFL2k5 was more complete.

Now Madden is in the position where it lacking in both areas. Madden needs to overhaul both gameplay and franchise. They have been just doing band-aid fixes and "back of box" gameplay additions. We're still dealing legacy issues from start of 7th gen. Instead of building on a poor foundation, best to rebuild at start of a console generation. Then CFM is so shallow and simplistic. The best way to play CFM is a multi-user Online CFM where at least you get a challenge from other Users. We pretty had same shallow experience since Madden 13. We definitely need new deeper experience

[ASZEMPLE]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Truth. For me, it was (and still is) the opposite in regards to Madden...no matter how deep the off-field modes are, if the on-the-field experience (gameplay, presentation, etc) isn't good then that kills replay ability. This is why I owned both Madden 05 and NFL 2k5 because, in a weird way, they combined for the perfect gaming experience. I played NFL2k5 for the gameplay and Madden '05 for the franchise mode/team management experience. Of the two, however, I'd argue NFL2k5 was more complete.

As bare bones as APF 2K8 was, I’ve probably spent more with this one game than all other sports games I’ve played combined just from how much enjoyment I get from the gameplay alone, there was a stretch I’ve probably played it almost every single day when I was in an online league from 2008-2012. Since the release of Javo’s APF Editor it feels like a brand new game and gave me the ability to create the 1993 roster and what was a bare bones game is no longer to me, as I now have the ability to create unlimited amount of rosters and content for it.



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[Elite Virtual Hockey]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Have people who've given up on APF 2K8, tried Javo's APFe Editor recently?His editor breathed new life into that game from what I've seen.
I don't know why 2k hasn't hired Javo yet? He'd be a real asset going forward 2k football wise. I'm going to inquire on his behalf.

I haven't but I created two of my own 8-team (16-teams total) "esport" leagues and kept track of standings and schedule via an excel doc to keep the replayability up for me. Also used the Season Mode roster deletion glitch to not only have two sets of 8-teams, but also alternate jerseys for those two leagues. I think I had about 12 season mode files or so which meant I made 6 alternates for each team haha! It was a blast!

[Kanobi]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

There are a lot factors that led to APF 2K8 to be consider a failure based off sales. I believe this was because 1. it didn’t have the NFL license and 2. It was marketed extremely poorly, it also was rebranded as All Pro Football 2K8, which essentially was a brand new title, and outside of 2K fans looking for the next 2K football game, no one knew about APF 2K8.

Here's some interesting reads on the NFLPA/NFL Player's Inc. and EA making moves that essentially killed off APF 2k:

- http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...is-Cheating-Us
- http://gamepolitics.com/2008/09/30/l...adden-himself/

[Kanobi]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Just saw that the 2nd link didnt work. Heres a link to quotes from both articles: https://forums.operationsports.com/f...84&postcount=2

[J_Posse]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

There are a lot factors that led to APF 2K8 to be consider a failure based off sales. I believe this was because 1. it didn’t have the NFL license and 2. It was marketed extremely poorly, it also was rebranded as All Pro Football 2K8, which essentially was a brand new title, and outside of 2K fans looking for the next 2K football game, no one knew about APF 2K8.

I don’t believe it failed because of what they were trying to do with this game, they were also 10 years to early with this format. MUT makes 800 million a year for Madden, and APF was the first to try their hand at it. The 2K brand is a big as ever now, and with social media, if APF was released today I could see it being very successful and have a very competitive online scene, and they would have no trouble marketing it.


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Agreed. I think many people forget this was competing with NCAA too, so two franchise-based games fully licensed for their respective IPs. They took a different path, think we all agree it was the wrong one and wished they continued down it a bit further to allow them to pivot from their mistakes.

I've played more NCAA 14 since the NFL season ended than Madden this year. The power of effective gameplay loops - I don't even watch college football.

People also forget that EA & the NFLPA blocked them from signing many more retired players through some backdoor shenanigans. Essentially, having the retirees sign an "exclusive deal" although many would have preferred the additional revenue stream from 2K.

Thanks to Kanobi's two posts above mine that have the links going into broader details. Essentially, the NFLPA worked against the better insterests of retired players by striking a "sweetheart" deal with EA.

A deal that saw the retired players make a lot, lot less than they would have had they been able to negotiate with Take Two/Visual Concepts. One of the many "under handed" tactics by EA to rid themselves of Visual Concepts/2K as competition the last 16+ years.

They would have needed to find a balance for franchise/multiple season mode fans, but like someone else stated they were ahead of the curve with the "team building/customizing" aspect.

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[jfsolo]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

There was no road to major sales success for All Pro Football back in 2007. 2K hadn't become the iconic brand name that they were to become after NBA 2K11, and fully licensed franchise play was still the be all end all of sports games at the time.

I agree with the idea that a game like APF released today would do much better, not even for the gameplay, online play would most likely become gimmicky like NBA 2K is, but more for the their equivalents of MyPlayer, MyTeam, and the Park.

IMO 2K will never get the chance to make their Magnum Opus simulation game in the modern era, even if they do get to make a simulation game in few years, because too much of the online gaming customer base isn't going to enjoy an game where they will fail miserably if they don't know football that well. Still, hopefully they will get the chance to maneuver in that minefield.

[J_Posse]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

There was no road to major sales success for All Pro Football back in 2007. 2K hadn't become the iconic brand name that they were to become after NBA 2K11, and fully licensed franchise play was still the be all end all of sports games at the time.

I agree with the idea that a game like APF released today would do much better, not even for the gameplay, online play would most likely become gimmicky like NBA 2K is, but more for the their equivalents of MyPlayer, MyTeam, and the Park.

IMO 2K will never get the chance to make their Magnum Opus simulation game in the modern era, even if they do get to make a simulation game in few years, because too much of the online gaming customer base isn't going to enjoy an game where they will fail miserably if they don't know football that well. Still, hopefully they will get the chance to maneuver in that minefield.

Exactly, the NBA series has stagnated in growth - partly because of online/social gaming components and the underpowered SKU's that started this gen (they are essentially developing for 5 platforms) - yet the game still plays a solid offline game of basketball. And it actually exists (unlike with pro football) for us to enjoy with a lot less of the bugs, glitches and fundamental flaws that exist with our only mainstream pro football option.

The social component and microtransactions are going to be the driving forces in all sports title to be frank, but I'm hopeful that basketball takes a bigger leap forward on the next-gen platforms. And hopefully with the return of a mainstream, competitive alternative that leap will eventually come with pro football.

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[Kanobi]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

People also forget that EA blocked them for signing many more retired players through some backdoor shenanigans.

Found another article on it from espn:

https://www.espn.com/espnmag/story?id=3713403

A few more nuggets are in there.

While APF 2k8 lacked modes/off-the-field depth, its clear from this article and the other two I linked to that Take-Two/2k had intent to continue the All Pro Foootball franchise.

[RaiderDaveMusic]

Re: NFL 2K Coming Back in 2021!!

Madden ****ing sucks period ... I can't even stand when people defend that product. It was epic prior to MUT. I mean let's be real. Madden isn't even close to simulation so apparently we will never have another one worth a **** until EA loses their deal. EA is so trash.

Let's not get too excited, kids:

https://www.streetinsider.com/Corpor.../16594637.html

Electronic Arts Inc. (NASDAQ: EA) today issued the following statement regarding the NFL-EA SPORTS partnership:

“EA SPORTS is the exclusive publisher of NFL simulation games, and our partnership with the NFL and NFLPA remains unchanged. Our agreements have always allowed for non-exclusive development of non-simulation games on various platforms. Our commitment to NFL fans, which spans almost 30 years, has never been stronger, and we’re having our biggest year yet. Madden NFL 20 is the most successful game ever in the franchise, and new modes like Superstar KO and our Madden NFL esports broadcasts are growing the fan base. We’ll be building on that momentum with more new and different experiences, on more platforms and with new ways to play, in the years to come.”

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[Ev14]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Mods, what are the Wishlist Thread rules? Can we start one for NFL 2K "Simulation"?