The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning in 2021

[illwill10]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Agreed. I went back and played it recently and the gameplay still holds up well in most areas. I even kinda like the concept of how you pick your roster. But it feels like that should be one mode in a much larger game.

I would prefer a game with fictional rosters and a full fledged franchise mode personally.


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Exactly. I don't need NFL players or legends. As long as those Fictional players have a believable back story, I would take fictional players with no problems. I feel that fictional rosters would give developers more creative freedom. You don't have to concern yourself with player likeness or replicating player skills. With fictional rosters, devs are free to create unique players with unique set of strengths and weaknesses. Most games don't really highlight weaknesses outside of low attributes or overalls almost to not hurt any feelings. Then with fictional rosters, You are free to full fledged franchise that free to take in any direction. You can have these unique storylines.

I get the whole power of NFL shield and not wanting to openly compete with Madden, but don't know why publishers don't want to get in the football market even if it is just a fictional game. Football is one of, if not top, American sport. Since 2008, its just been mainly Madden(not counting NCAA) and indie titles. Gamers are hungry for a quality football game. I feel that if a publisher has the brand recognition and a quality game, gamers will come. The main problem with APF2K8 was they rebranded, overall approach, banking on consumers caring about legends, and 2k Sports wasn't as big as it is now. But I feel that 2kSports is big enough of brand now that if they put their name on a quality football game, they will come

[ASZEMPLE]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Yeah see, those uniform numbers are way too small IMO. They're definitely too skinny, that's for sure. It does look cleaner than the original PS3 version, though.

Is it glitch-free? Is there vibration? I have a high-end CPU.

The players do have a 80’s vibe to them and numbers are skinner than what they should be.

Frame rate isn’t perfect on it, I get 35-40 FPS for most part with dips in 23-27 FPS, it’s still very cpu dependent, and there is no vibration.


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[Kanobi]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

The players do have a 80’s vibe to them

Thats why I like Javo's editor...you can change the players' body types. I tend to apply the larger body types to all linemen and some linebackers, usually 3-4 OLB's. This completely modernizes the look of the game ..within its own graphical limits of course.

I need to get back into APF roster editing and put a 2k21 file out next month.

[Blzer]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

The players do have a 80’s vibe to them and numbers are skinner than what they should be.

Frame rate isn’t perfect on it, I get 35-40 FPS for most part with dips in 23-27 FPS, it’s still very cpu dependent, and there is no vibration.


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Thanks, just gave it a shot. Even with my suped up CPU, I'm getting the same thing when it comes to trying to achieve other desired settings (1440p, full AA, V-Sync as this game does tear, etc.) so it hardly actually hits the achieved 60 FPS. Definitely looking cleaner than the PS3 version, though as you said and I've noticed there isn't any vibration, which is sad.

I don't know what Sony was thinking when they first released PS3 without a DS controller and trophies were an afterthought. All launch and early-gen titles had to get these things patched in if they did at all, and in some cases you'd have to restart a campaign/story/season if you wanted to get those trophies as well. Now PS3 ports such as APF 2K8 is without vibration for the same reason. It makes a big difference in a football game for me -- football and hockey. I can do without vibration in baseball and basketball.

Kanobi, do you know anything about PS3-supported files or RPCS3 and anything regarding Javo's editor or rosters of any kind? I'm sure one peek in the rosters sub-forum I can figure it out, but I like the sound of getting updated rosters like that for this game as well.

[mestevo]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Thanks, just gave it a shot. Even with my suped up CPU, I'm getting the same thing when it comes to trying to achieve other desired settings (1440p, full AA, V-Sync as this game does tear, etc.) so it hardly actually hits the achieved 60 FPS. Definitely looking cleaner than the PS3 version, though as you said and I've noticed there isn't any vibration, which is sad.

I don't know what Sony was thinking when they first released PS3 without a DS controller and trophies were an afterthought. All launch and early-gen titles had to get these things patched in if they did at all, and in some cases you'd have to restart a campaign/story/season if you wanted to get those trophies as well. Now PS3 ports such as APF 2K8 is without vibration for the same reason. It makes a big difference in a football game for me -- football and hockey. I can do without vibration in baseball and basketball.

Kanobi, do you know anything about PS3-supported files or RPCS3 and anything regarding Javo's editor or rosters of any kind? I'm sure one peek in the rosters sub-forum I can figure it out, but I like the sound of getting updated rosters like that for this game as well.

Sony was in litigation over the rumble tech, so they claimed it was a 'last generation feature' and pushed the awful Sixaxis.

They didn't implement achievements until Microsoft and then Valve introduced them as platform-level innovations.

[ASZEMPLE]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Kanobi, do you know anything about PS3-supported files or RPCS3 and anything regarding Javo's editor or rosters of any kind? I'm sure one peek in the rosters sub-forum I can figure it out, but I like the sound of getting updated rosters like that for this game as well.

Javo’s newest editor works great with RPCS3. It’s actually easier to use the emulator files since they are decrypted already then regular PS3. I created the complete 1993 NFL roster with each team fully playable in quick play or season mode on PS3, RPCS3, and 360. You also have the ability to do multiple seasons with the editor, giving you the ability to sorta have a franchise mode within APF 2K8.

[Hammerhunker]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

A lack of replayability (no Franchise mode, no progression, no "myLeague" modes) killed this game, not the actual football or the star system imo. It played a great game of football imo, and the customization suite was very fun! I think they needed to allow users to fully customize/use every team they had in the game rather than limiting the users to their 8 "user teams". Also, because the league was clearly fictional, they could've easily went the "esport" route with their games and embraced the fantasy nature of it via franchise mode, pro-rel system for a "MyLeague" like game mode, or something of that nature.

I think they had a really good product football-wise, but missed how truly unique and customization the experience could've been had they embraced what it was. A "myLeague" game in 2k8 would mean this game is still be played, talked about, and maybe even released to this day imo.

Excellent summation.

The greatest reason for its failure was that it was one year and done. 2K had such a cupboard full of feature they could have rolled out gradually to build a fanbase, but they pulled the plug without even trying to make it work, the reasons I guess is for another discussion.

[olliedathird]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

The PS3 version detracts for me. Framerate struggles, jaggies, and no vibration.

And no one has ever really mentioned this that I know of, but compared to 2K5 I don't like the player models as much. They are much skinner, as are their uniform numbers. It always looked really off to me. I also miss the blinking red-blue player cursor for charging up. These are small things, but I felt like they changed that "just because," and it came off as inferior in my eyes.

I knew I wasn't the only person with these issues. I came off of playing 2k5 and Madden on PCSX2 and gave 2k8 a shot on PS3. Played one game, went right back to my emulator. 30fps, no vibration, the goofy *** stadiums, weird player models and saturated colors turned me off completely. I might setup RPCS3 and give it another shot, but other than gameplay, it had nothing else to offer me.

[jmarcguy]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

I played 2k5 a few years after it ended. Thoroughly enjoyed it to be honest. I resisted getting 2k8 because it was “real NFL”. I finally bought it but it took time for me to get into it. Once I did, the gameplay and animations really won me over. I saw new catches up until My last year playing!


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[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

I said this in the Madden forum about the license, I guess I’ll let it out here too lol. But 2K just needs to make an all out customizable game. Whatever they have planned for the NFL license for an arcade game might not do anything for me or the sim base that’s been ignored. Just make a non-licensed game where you can mix and match American (NFL), Collegiate (NCAA) Extreme (XFL), Indoor (Arena League) and Canadian (CFL) rules & settings for franchise with a varied amount of teams and divisions/conferences you can edit freely. Just go all out so it’s not even just an NFL alternative.

I understand playing nice so they don’t get sued, but if they are playing nice all to get an NFL License and not even be allowed to make a sim game, just forget it. Make a FULLY customizable non-licensed football game and just make it so good that it will put a dent in Madden sales. That will be the only way to make football gamers happy, as well as having ANY shot at an NFL License anyway.

Back in the day, multiple games never had NFL or NFLPA licenses, and on PC you were always able to edit rosters and teams. 2K just needs to go in with that idea and mentality now. APF failed mostly because it was not really customizable, rosters HAVE to be fully customizable and there was no franchise which REALLY takes away from the game entirely. They have to deliver a fully customizable and franchise/career focused experience.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

I said this in the Madden forum about the license, I guess I’ll let it out here too lol. But 2K just needs to make an all out customizable game. Whatever they have planned for the NFL license for an arcade game might not do anything for me or the sim base that’s been ignored. Just make a non-licensed game where you can mix and match American (NFL), Collegiate (NCAA) Extreme (XFL), Indoor (Arena League) and Canadian (CFL) rules & settings for franchise with a varied amount of teams and divisions/conferences you can edit freely. Just go all out so it’s not even just an NFL alternative.

I understand playing nice so they don’t get sued, but if they are playing nice all to get an NFL License and not even be allowed to make a sim game, just forget it. Make a FULLY customizable non-licensed football game and just make it so good that it will put a dent in Madden sales. That will be the only way to make football gamers happy, as well as having ANY shot at an NFL License anyway.

Back in the day, multiple games never had NFL or NFLPA licenses, and on PC you were always able to edit rosters and teams. 2K just needs to go in with that idea and mentality now. APF failed mostly because it was not really customizable, rosters HAVE to be fully customizable and there was no franchise which REALLY takes away from the game entirely. They have to deliver a fully customizable and franchise/career focused experience.

There’s a very profitable market for an unlicensed game with an awesome franchise mode and online league support. Just look at what the SFL has become with APF. They got a TV contract. It’s not going to match Madden in sales, but it will certainly take some market share and make a nice return.

The key is to add all of the things Madden doesn’t. Realistic and smooth player movement, physics, deep, off the field management, presentation, etc. Madden is such a poor representation of real football so EA themselves have left the door open for an unlicensed offering.

10 years ago I would have said no way, but a lot has changed since then. Fans are so starved for a quality game that the NFL branding doesn’t matter to them. They can be just as immersed in a fictional league if it’s done right.

Maximum football is trying to do that. They just don’t have the manpower to get the gameplay down well enough to fill that void... yet. In 5 years who knows. Same with Axis.


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[Kanobi]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Take-Two wanted to continue APF but some shady deals between the NFL Players Inc and EA undercut their plans and prevented that from happening. It"s clear Take-Two saw APF as worth their while.

That's why Im probably more optimistic than most that they will put out a similar title to APF within the next two years.

[Blzer]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Take-Two wanted to continue APF but some shady deals between the NFL Players Inc and EA undercut their plans and prevented that from happening. It"s clear Take-Two saw APF as worth their while.

That's why Im probably more optimistic than most that they will put out a similar title to APF within the next two years.

That's fine, but I'm really hoping they can ditch the legends thing and focus more on the generic players. I've been trying to play APF the last few days, and it behooves me that even my wide-open lob passes are being dropped 70% of the time to them. They have to have some bit of skill! Plus, customization galore and franchise please, haha.

It really is a shame that the XFL folded amidst the COVID-19 quarantine. That was their next outlet for sure.

[Hooe]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Take-Two wanted to continue APF but some shady deals between the NFL Players Inc and EA undercut their plans and prevented that from happening.

Citation needed. This conspiracy theory doesn't pass the smell test.

All Pro Football 2K8 was an unlicensed football title. It didn't have anything to do with the NFL or the NFLPA / NFLPI. In addition, retired NFL players' rights are not governed by any of these bodies. It is well-known that the appearance of each legend in Madden Ultimate Team is negotiated individually. To that end I'm not sure what the NFLPI could have possibly done to kill it off, they would have had no leverage over Take 2 or 2K to do so.

It is also well-known that APF2K8 didn't move nearly enough units for anyone outside of those deep in the console simulation football market to really care it even existed. Across both the PS3 and XBOX 360, it may have moved 200,000 copies, being generous? The ever-reliable (sarcasm) VGChartz puts the number far lower. I'm not sure why EA would have bothered wasting energy attempting to kill it.

The far more likely story is that, in an 2000s era of console gaming where all the AAA publishers were consolidating their assets to produce fewer and fewer more easily monetized games and before the idea of digital sales was strongly established on consoles, APF was killed internally because it didn't sell nearly enough units for Take 2 to continue its development and it offered no post-sale monetization.

[ASZEMPLE]

Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

Citation needed. This conspiracy theory doesn't pass the smell test.

https://www.espn.com/espnmag/story?id=3713403

This would be where the idea that NFLPA and EA essentially struck a deal and help prevent 2K moving forward with their plans.


- From the article on ESPN -

The deal has been terrific for Electronic Arts, which not only got the rights to the best players in football history at an apparent discount but also essentially eliminated its competition. Walker claimed in his February 2007 e-mail: "EA owes me a huge favor because that threat [of no longer being able to use Hall of Famers] was enough to persuade Take Two to back off its plans, leaving EA as the only professional football video game manufacturer out there.”


There is also this article too.

https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/86536-Former-NFL-Player-EA-Deal-is-Cheating-Us

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