Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

[PrettyT11]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

So????? Jerry Kramer was a starting guard on the NFL's 50 anniversary team and he isn't in the Hall of Fame. If being one of the best for 50 years isn't good enough, then McDaniel sure doesn't qualify.

My point was that Warner has as much claim to the Hall as McDaniel.

And FYI....the Pro Bowl has been a joke for many years now.

You must not have read the post. McDaniel has 12 pro bowls and 7 first team all pro's. That means 7 years he was voted the BEST player at his position in the ENITRE NFL. Not to mention he was on the ALL DECADE team. In contrast Warner has 3 pro bowls and 2 all pro selections and when they do make the all decade team he won't even be close to it. So again how does he have as much of a claim as McDaniel??

[tmulk]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

It's funny that we have all these "Kurt Warner better than Peyton Manning?" and "Kurt Warner: Hall of Fame?" threads, when just over 2 years ago, the Kurt Warner threads were like this:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...r-bledsoe.html

Even more proof of how special his career has been. I don't think we've ever seen a career quite like Warners. From a nobody in the Arena League to League MVP to washed up has been to inches away from Superbowl MVP with the CARDNIALS if not for an amazing comeback. I remember watching him turn the ball over 5 times in one of his first games for the Giants, thinking 'wow, he's finished'. That was 5 years ago. HOF for sure.

[yvesdereuter]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

Even more proof of how special his career has been. I don't think we've ever seen a career quite like Warners. From a nobody in the Arena League to League MVP to washed up has been to inches away from Superbowl MVP with the CARDNIALS if not for an amazing comeback. I remember watching him turn the ball over 5 times in one of his first games for the Giants, thinking 'wow, he's finished'. That was 5 years ago. HOF for sure.

Yeah, it has been kind of amazing when you think about it. He's one of these guys with a great career that was never supposed to happen. He's similar to Plunkett but even Plunkett was a high round choice and only emerged successful with one team.

[ftball11]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

After last night's performance, I think he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.

[hamannator]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

No question. Probably still not a first ballot HOFer, but definitely a HOFer. Now, another Super Bowl appearance (not likely, I know), THEN he's a first ballot member.

[rdawsoniii]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

You must not have read the post. McDaniel has 12 pro bowls and 7 first team all pro's. That means 7 years he was voted the BEST player at his position in the ENITRE NFL. Not to mention he was on the ALL DECADE team. In contrast Warner has 3 pro bowls and 2 all pro selections and when they do make the all decade team he won't even be close to it. So again how does he have as much of a claim as McDaniel??

Kurt Warner = 2 NFL MVP awards. Kurt Warner = 3 Super Bowls and 1 ring. Kurt Warner led the Cardinals to the Super Bowl for gosh sake. THE CARDINALS! Warner also is near the top in several career QB stats.

When I think of the great guards in NFL history, the name Randal McDaniel does not come to mind. Was he good? Yes. Was he HOF calibre? Sadly.....no.

[speedkills]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

Umm ya point?

Chris Carter: 1101 Rec. 13899 yards(6th among recievers) 130 Rec TD

8-time Pro Bowler & 2-time first-team All-Pro

Dont understand what you are saying?

You're a Cris Carter fan and never heard the phrase "All he does is catch touchdowns" ?

After starring at Ohio State University, Carter was drafted by the Eagles in the 4th round of the 1987 NFL supplemental draft. While in Philadelphia, head coach Buddy Ryan helped to coin one of ESPN's Chris Berman's famous quotes about Carter: "All he does is catch touchdowns." He was let go by Ryan in 1989, however, due to off-the-field issues. Carter was signed by the Vikings and turned his life and career around, becoming a 3 time All-Pro and playing in 8 straight Pro Bowls. source: Wikipedia

If Brett Favre is a first ballot HOF'er so should Kurt Warner. Kurt Warner has never single-handedly knocked his team out of the playoffs multiple times.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

If Brett Favre is a first ballot HOF'er so should Kurt Warner. Kurt Warner has never single-handedly knocked his team out of the playoffs multiple times.

WOW. So now Kurt Warner's career is now on the same level as Bret FarvePlease STOP right now. This is really starting to get rediculous

[kjell1979]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

While I really like Warner and cheered for him during 2 out of the 3 Super Bowls he was in, I have a few problems with his candidacy.

First, he never did well without top notch talent around him. He had some of the greatest offensive talent when he was in St. Louis and in Arizona he has some great players of offense around him now. When he didn't have that security, his stats were very average. Think of Montana. He had Rice and Taylor all those years, but he still succeeded with the Chiefs who had no one except a washed up Marcus Allen who was only really effective as a goal line back. But the point is he carried those Chiefs teams on offense. Brady won all those years without hardly anyone on offense. Elway carried his teams to the Super Bowl in the 80's. With some QBs, you'll never really know, like with Young, Aikman, and Kelly. But with Warner you do.

The other problem I have is the fumbling problem. Yes he doesn't throw a lot of interceptions, but he does fumble quite a bit. To me that's a major strike against him.

I think when you factor all of this in with his longevity, you have to make a strong case that when he was on the field he did something special. With Warner all he showed is that he can be a great QB when he has talent around him. If he did this for 15 years then he's probably in. But he did it for 5 years essentially. If he won MVP all 5 of those years, or if he won the Super Bowl all 5 of those years, then fine.

I think at this point McNabb has a better case than Warner. At least he's showed he could be a decent QB for a longer period of time and all except for a couple years with Owens, did it without a strong receivers.

[Candyman5]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

WOW. So now Kurt Warner's career is now on the same level as Bret FarvePlease STOP right now. This is really starting to get rediculous

Well I am a Farve ***** and never thought he was all that good. So comparing thier seasons, NO. Saying he has the right to the HoF as much as Farve, YES.

*Prepares for the Farve Fanboys to tear me a new one*

[PrettyT11]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

Well I am a Farve ***** and never thought he was all that good. So comparing thier season, NO. Saying he has the right to the HoF as much as Farve, YES.

*Prepares for the Farve Fanboys to tear me a new one*

Well you are an admitted Farve ***** and has a Vikings fan I see why but what you say about him has to be taken with a grain of salt. To compare the careers or Bret and Kurt and put them on the same level is laughable. I mean all Bret has is 10 pro bowls, 7 time first team all pro, first player ever to win three MVP's, longets starting streak in NFL history, ALL TIME LEADER in TD's, yards, completetions, WINS, most games with 3 TD passes, most season with 30 TD's, 2nd all time in 4th quarter comeback wins, and ranks 2nd ALL TIME in the PLAYOFFS behind Montana in Yards, TD's, and completetions.

All Warner has is AT BEST FIVE GOOD seasons but only 3 of those where pro bowl years and two all pro. Oh yeah there careers are real similar

[MassNole]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

Well you are an admitted Farve ***** and has a Vikings fan I see why but what you say about him has to be taken with a grain of salt. To compare the careers or Bret and Kurt and put them on the same level is laughable. I mean all Bret has is 10 pro bowls, 7 time first team all pro, first player ever to win three MVP's, longets starting streak in NFL history, ALL TIME LEADER in TD's, yards, completetions, WINS, most games with 3 TD passes, most season with 30 TD's, 2nd all time in 4th quarter comeback wins, and ranks 2nd ALL TIME in the PLAYOFFS behind Montana in Yards, TD's, and completetions.

All Warner has is AT BEST FIVE GOOD seasons but only 3 of those where pro bowl years and two all pro. Oh yeah there careers are real similar

I love the random capitalization THROUGHOUT that post, I must SAY.

Warner lead three teams to Super Bowl appearances, winning one. Favre lead his teams to two Super Bowls, winning one. Warner's offense in St. Louis was one of the best in NFL history and his offense in Arizona is pretty damned potent as well. Yes, Warner had some down years, but it isn't like Favre's career was always perfect. Warner never had a season where he threw more interceptions than touchdowns, whereas Favre had seasons where he did and two seasons where the numbers were equal. Warner's career passing rating is 93.8 compared to Favre's 85.4, that is a fairly significant difference.

Since the NFL HOF voters also seem to be taking character into account, Warner has been a model citizen, whereas Favre has done a stint in rehab for alcohol abuse, openly admitted to abusing pain killers, and for multiple seasons jerked the Packers around with his will he or won't he retirement sagas. Warner also gracefully accepted his role when he was not the starter and was brought in to be a mentor to Eli Manning and Matt Leinart, whereas Favre treated it like the Packers owed him his job after he abandoned them and then decided to come back. I won't pretend that Favre hasn't earned his place in the HOF, but on the same hand it is ridiculous to say Warner has not done the same. Hell who knows, maybe Warner would have been the better QB in Green Bay had he not been cut there years ago.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

I love the random capitalization THROUGHOUT that post, I must SAY.

Warner lead three teams to Super Bowl appearances, winning one. Favre lead his teams to two Super Bowls, winning one. Warner's offense in St. Louis was one of the best in NFL history and his offense in Arizona is pretty damned potent as well. Yes, Warner had some down years, but it isn't like Favre's career was always perfect. Warner never had a season where he threw more interceptions than touchdowns, whereas Favre had seasons where he did and two seasons where the numbers were equal. Warner's career passing rating is 93.8 compared to Favre's 85.4, that is a fairly significant difference.

Since the NFL HOF voters also seem to be taking character into account, Warner has been a model citizen, whereas Favre has done a stint in rehab for alcohol abuse, openly admitted to abusing pain killers, and for multiple seasons jerked the Packers around with his will he or won't he retirement sagas. Warner also gracefully accepted his role when he was not the starter and was brought in to be a mentor to Eli Manning and Matt Leinart, whereas Favre treated it like the Packers owed him his job after he abandoned them and then decided to come back. I won't pretend that Favre hasn't earned his place in the HOF, but on the same hand it is ridiculous to say Warner has not done the same. Hell who knows, maybe Warner would have been the better QB in Green Bay had he not been cut there years ago.

Actually Warner does have season where his TD's was less than his INT's or the same. Both of the season he was put on the bench with the Rams. In 02 he had 3 TD's compare to 11 INT's. In 03 he had one a piece and got that one TD in garbage time coming in as a backup. Nice try though. John Elway has seasons where he had mor INT's than TD's too. Warner has a higher QB rating than Elway. So is Warner as worthy/good as Elway too??

People keep throwing out the QB rating and forget that INT's aren't the only way to turn over the ball and fumbles aren't a part of the QB rating. The fact is Warner has more fumbles than games played since 02. Thats the reason he was put on the bench in all three places. He was turning the ball over and fumbling at an insane rate. Oh and he didn't take the benching in NY gracefully. He was highly pissed and talked about retirement.

I'm glad you brought up the part about his offenses with the Rams and this year. Bret never had the luxary of playing with MVP and Hall of Fame running back or Hall of Fame caliber recievers. We saw what Kurt did without those caliber of players around him. He was put on the bench. People also forget he lost his starting job with Cards before by JOSH McCOWN. The fact is Warner has more bad/mediocre years than good ones. You can't say the same about Farve.

The whole thing about Farve was brought up when somebody said Warner was more worthy of the Hall of Fame than Farve and if Farve gets in first ballot so should Warner. That is boderline ********. There is no questions about if Farve is going or not. The fact that there is questions about if Warner deserves to go or not show you they are not on the same level. There was no questions about Marino, Elway, Montana, and Farve. There are questions about Warner. Their careers are not on the same level.

[fredropro]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

Remember when he had most of those fumble hes was playing with and injured hand.....just throwing that out there.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

Remember when he had most of those fumble hes was playing with and injured hand.....just throwing that out there.

Umm no they were not. In 02 he started the season with 7 INT's to 1 TD and fumbles in every game BEFORE breaking that finger. When he came back that year he thre 2 TD's to 3 INT's with again more fumbles. In 03 he came back fully healthy and fumbled SIX times in that opening game and was put on the bench for good. He fumbled 12 times in 9 games with the Giants again when he was healthy and on the field. That first year with the Cards he gurt his groin not his hand and was fumbling the ball and turning it over then. In 06 when Matt put him on the bench he had a great week one then went on a turnover and fumble fest fumbling 10 times in 5 games before Matt put him on the bench. Even last year he was fumbling the ball alot.

That's FIVE straight years of major fumbling problems. You trying to tell me his hand was hurt for FIVE years straight??