Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated (Now officially back)

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

Im still waiting for all these games that Favre lost for us.

[metallicatz]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

And Tom Brady would have 0 rings if he didn't have the defense that he did. So what's the point? All SB teams have a defense, otherwise they wouldn't be there. In Ben's first SB, the defense bailed him out, he played awful. But lets not forget how dominant he was in the playoffs, with no running game. They never make the SB without his play.

Not to mention the signals. LOL.

Ben's offensive line played AWFUL in the SB last season. The running game was nonexistent too. They did everything imagineable to lose the game, from getting safeties in the 4th quarter, he even had to start his gamewinning drive backed up against his endzone on 1st and 20, due to holding. The fact that he played so well in the playoffs last year, and then put on the legendary performance he did in the Superbowl, you have to give it up. That's elite QB stuff. When it comes to the playoffs, he's one of the best in the game.

No doubt. What Ben did in the playoffs last season was quite simply doing "favre" better than Favre himself ever did. I'd take Ben over Favre in a second and that has nothing to do with being a homer. Ben has already won more games in his his first 5 seasons than any QB in history has in theirs. And he's already well on his way to racking up more come from behind wins than any QB in history. He's not a numbers guy, he's a W's guy.

[metallicatz]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

Im still waiting for all these games that Favre lost for us.

So now that Favre isn't playing for the Vikes you're back on board with him? Seriously, all one has to do is type "Favre" into the search engine here and explore the more popular Favre threads over the last year to see you bashing him along with everyone else, from his character right on down to his play.

Not trying to call you out. I respect you as a poster. I'm just curious because you've been one of the Packers fans who hasn't apologized for Favre over the last year with his various antics and you've criticized his play as well as his behavior. All is forgiven as long as he doesn't play for the Vikes?

[Fox1994]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

2 really bad games inflate those 28 INTs. In the other 20 post season games he threw just 18 interceptions.

But those games did happen. You can't keep discounting them. Just like the one guy said he couldn't discount the games Manning played against the Broncos even though they inflated his TDs from 13 to 22 and only adding one interception (16 to 17).

Idk, I think Favre's a little overrated. He's good, but I think Peyton has/will be a better regular-season QB and I think Roethlisberger has/will be a better playoff QB. That's just my own opinion, though.

[KSUowls]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

But those games did happen. You can't keep discounting them. Just like the one guy said he couldn't discount the games Manning played against the Broncos even though they inflated his TDs from 13 to 22 and only adding one interception (16 to 17).

Idk, I think Favre's a little overrated. He's good, but I think Peyton has/will be a better regular-season QB and I think Roethlisberger has/will be a better playoff QB. That's just my own opinion, though.

You don't discount them, but you also don't just throw them into the pile and forget about it. Those 2 games accounted for .09% of his post season career. That means that in 91% of his post seasons starts he averaged less than an interception a game.

To put it this into perspective. Say there is a guy with 10 career post season games. Through 9 of them he throws 9 touchdowns and 0 interceptions. You would look at that and say well he's pretty amazing in the post season. Now lets add in a 10th game where he throws 1 TD and 5 interceptions. Now with just one game (or 10% of his career) he has gone from a 9:0 TD-int ratio to a 2:1 ratio.

Basically it's not fair to throw in one or two bad games that greatly inflate his interception numbers and then call it a day when those games deviate so far from what we saw in every other game.

[KSUowls]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

No doubt. What Ben did in the playoffs last season was quite simply doing "favre" better than Favre himself ever did. I'd take Ben over Favre in a second and that has nothing to do with being a homer. Ben has already won more games in his his first 5 seasons than any QB in history has in theirs. And he's already well on his way to racking up more come from behind wins than any QB in history. He's not a numbers guy, he's a W's guy.

I'm a big Big Ben fan and have always thought that he is vastly underrated compared to the rest of the league, but it doesn't hurt your success in the wins column when 3 out of 5 years your team has ranked in the top 10 in rushing and the lowest the defense has ever finished was #11 (the only time outside of the top 5). The other times the defenses were tanked #1 (twice), #2, and #4.

It's obvious that he is a great QB, but saying you would already take him over Favre is a stretch since we have never seen how he would perform if he had to not only be the entire offense but also have to "outscore" his opponents.

[Fox1994]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

This is sorta off-topic, but do y'all think Big Ben will end up in the Hall of Fame? I think he probably will... Seeing as how Bradshaw did.

[KSUowls]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

This is sorta off-topic, but do y'all think Big Ben will end up in the Hall of Fame? I think he probably will... Seeing as how Bradshaw did.

So long as his career isn't ended prematurely I think he will. Even if he never wins another one he has 2 superbowl rings and is going to win a lot of games.

[Fox1994]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

Indeed. Especially if you look at his stat line compared to Bradshaw's. I know we've already established that it's hard to compare QBs from today and the past, but Bradshaw threw six TDs against 24 picks his first year and had he not played in one game in his final year (two TDs, no INTs) he'd have 210 TDs and 210 INTs. He also had four years under 50% completion and never one with 60% (except for the one aforementioned game he played in 1983).

Alright, I'm done with my tangent.

[metallicatz]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

I'm a big Big Ben fan and have always thought that he is vastly underrated compared to the rest of the league, but it doesn't hurt your success in the wins column when 3 out of 5 years your team has ranked in the top 10 in rushing and the lowest the defense has ever finished was #11 (the only time outside of the top 5). The other times the defenses were tanked #1 (twice), #2, and #4.

It's obvious that he is a great QB, but saying you would already take him over Favre is a stretch since we have never seen how he would perform if he had to not only be the entire offense but also have to "outscore" his opponents.

I guess to that I would say....you don't win without outscoring your opponents right? The Steelers weren't a top running team last season for that SB win, much to the dismay of many of us in Steelers Country.

When the Packers won the SB in the 1996 season they had the #1 defense in the league and finished #4 in rushing.

The next year when they lost to the broncos in the SBthey had the #7 defense in the league, but dropped to #20 in rushing.

The year after that (1998) they had the #4 ranked defense when they finished 11-5, back up to #4 in rushing.

Despite what many would say, Favre had a strong supporting cast when he was winning. He wasn't taking the team on his back and doing it himself.

[Fox1994]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

I guess to that I would say....you don't win without outscoring your opponents right? The Steelers weren't a top running team last season for that SB win, much to the dismay of many of us in Steelers Country.

When the Packers won the SB in the 1996 season they had the #1 defense in the league and finished #4 in rushing.

The next year when they lost to the broncos in the SBthey had the #7 defense in the league, but dropped to #20 in rushing.

The year after that (1998) they had the #4 ranked defense when they finished 11-5, back up to #4 in rushing.

Despite what many would say, Favre had a strong supporting cast when he was winning. He wasn't taking the team on his back and doing it himself.

For sure. No one's ever won without a supporting cast. Sometime's they're really, really good and sometimes they're just kind of good, but there's never just one guy carrying a team to a Super Bowl victory.

Though there are some times when one guy has an outstanding performance in the Super Bowl, I can't really think of any time when one guy carried his team completely throughout the season and the playoffs and then won the championship on their own...

[steelcurtain311]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

Ben is twice the QB Terry Bradshaw was. He's infinitely smarter than him.

I think Ben will make it into the HOF, so long as his offensive line doesn't get him killed. The guy already takes a ridiculous amount of punishment every year, which is another reason why I like him so much. Not many QB's can perform the way he does, taking soooo many hits. Guys like Peyton get rattled by stuff like that.

You have to figure, he has two rings already, and the Steelers have the core of players to be a dominant franchise for years to come still. I could honestly see him finishing his career with 4 rings.

It's obvious that he is a great QB, but saying you would already take him over Favre is a stretch since we have never seen how he would perform if he had to not only be the entire offense but also have to "outscore" his opponents.

Ummm, Ben's had a good number of games where he HAS had to do this. That's why he's so good, because he can do it all. He's there to win games, and he does it right. He tries to manage the offense. If that means he hands it off to win, that's what he does. If that means he has to torch the other team for 3-4 TD's, that's what he does. There isn't anything he can't do as a QB. He's done the statistical fantasy QB stuff, and he's done the winning games stuff. There's no better balance at the QB position in the league than Ben Roethlisberger.

[KSUowls]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

I guess to that I would say....you don't win without outscoring your opponents right? The Steelers weren't a top running team last season for that SB win, much to the dismay of many of us in Steelers Country.

lol I think you know what I meant. They weren't a top rushing team, but they still had the #1 defense.

When the Packers won the SB in the 1996 season they had the #1 defense in the league and finished #4 in rushing.

The next year when they lost to the broncos in the SBthey had the #7 defense in the league, but dropped to #20 in rushing.

The year after that (1998) they had the #4 ranked defense when they finished 11-5, back up to #4 in rushing.

You're right about those years because no QB can win it all by himself. A great QB can win a bunch of games, but it takes at least a pretty good team to win a superbowl.

Despite what many would say, Favre had a strong supporting cast when he was winning. He wasn't taking the team on his back and doing it himself.

He had a strong supporting cast for a few years, but has spent the majority of his career with an average team. In his first 5 seasons Green Bay averaged a rankings of 20 and 7 in rushing and defense (those stats go through the superbowl season 1996). Conversely in Big Ben's teams have been #12 and #4.

The other 12 years of Favre's career his teams averaged 18th in rushing and 14th in defense.

[KSUowls]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

Ummm, Ben's had a good number of games where he HAS had to do this. That's why he's so good, because he can do it all. He's there to win games, and he does it right. He tries to manage the offense. If that means he hands it off to win, that's what he does. If that means he has to torch the other team for 3-4 TD's, that's what he does. There isn't anything he can't do as a QB. He's done the statistical fantasy QB stuff, and he's done the winning games stuff. There's no better balance at the QB position in the league than Ben Roethlisberger.

I have no intention of knocking what Ben can do or has done, but you can't compare him through 5 seasons of having dominating teams (especially on the defensive side of the ball) to a guy who has spent 17 years in the league being his teams main source of offense while having average defenses.

[Fox1994]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

^18th in rushing and 14th in defense aren't stupendous, but it's not like they're terrible. Those are just average averages... They certainly say something toward Favre's ability to win games, but I think one question that hasn't been thoroughly effectively addressed in this thread is his tendency to turn the ball over.

All I'm saying is that regardless of his playmaking ability or what have you, I need some sort of reason as to why he turns the ball over so much. Can we get a real explanation as opposed to just writing it off as "he's a gun-slinger" or "that's what he does"?

People don't say he's overrated because of his 169-100 record as a starter or because of his 464 touchdowns or his 65127 passing yards. Whenever someone says he's overrated, it's because of the 310 interceptions.