Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated (Now officially back)

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

Metallicatz, no hard feelings man it's all good. I just want the season to hurry up and start so we'd have some games to talk about

[MattieShoes]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

That's the problem with saying anyone's overrated... it has to be compared to something. I generally think of the general view which includes media, average fans, etc. but it could also mean at OS... or in this thread... don't know. The funny thing is my guess is most people rate Favre about the same place, but you throw in the word "overrated" and you have a big argument.

This.
If you say he's the best ever, yeah I think you overrate him. If you say he's terrible, I think you underrate him. Just about anything else and you can make a perfectly reasonable argument to support it.

[JBH3]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

That's the problem with saying anyone's overrated... it has to be compared to something. I generally think of the general view which includes media, average fans, etc. but it could also mean at OS... or in this thread... don't know. The funny thing is my guess is most people rate Favre about the same place, but you throw in the word "overrated" and you have a big argument.

This.
If you say he's the best ever, yeah I think you overrate him. If you say he's terrible, I think you underrate him. Just about anything else and you can make a perfectly reasonable argument to support it.

Yea...but in the context of the first post of this thread the OP goes to call him overrated based on shortcomings in playoff success in the 2000's.

So the only reason he is overrated is because after 1997 he never played in another superbowl? He had just empty numbers that don't spell true greatness?

That's where I vastly disagree. I mean Marino didn't have nearly the amount of success, but he's given a pass based on being a extremely talented passer. However, Brett while a very good passer (not on Marino's level persay) possessed other intangibles that made him the QB he was (his consecutive game steak speaks to that).

So because Brett accumulated his numbers in a fashion which also presented him w/ the career mark in INTs he's overrated?

[JBH3]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

Oh and lest we forget that Favre was on his way to playing in the 2003 NFC Championship and could've very likely taken Tampa Bay down in that game after beating them in the reg. season (21-13) AT TAMPA BAY.

Not to mention they beat the AFC's Superbowl rep. Oakland Raiders that year 41-7.

HOWEVER

On a 4th and 26, on a play that was perhaps the greatest I had ever seen until Tyree's catch, the Packers season came to an end in a miracle-type fashion. That catch put the Eagles in FG position to win in O/T.

So the way the OP states his "lack of success" / "choker status" is aggregiously OVERSTATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: If w/in 3 or 4 posts I can begin to chip away at this "Overrated" status perpetrated by the OP then how exactly is he overrated?

All of the off-season retirement fiasco is two-fold. One it's partially Brett's ego at play, BUT two it's very much the media hype-machine at work. And come on...does the NFL care? It puts the NFL in the minds of fans while the season isn't even in session. It's good for ESPN, good for the NFL, but bad for Brett's legacy because it puts him in a bad light. You can almost say he was extorted in a sense for the sake of ratings and interest (in the NFL/ESPN).

[metallicatz]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

Yeah, but Brett could've put alot of that media coverage to bed by just coming out and speaking instead of leaking tidbits of info through his circle of media sycophants like Ed Werder and Al Jones. Getting in front of a camera and speaking his mind instead of sending "it's just rumors" text messages to his media buddies............when he knew he wanted to play. It's like Colin Cowhurd (who I gerneally can't stand) says: "If you don't run we won't chase you".

Favre brought that media storm on himself, and all of us.

[JBH3]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

Yeah, but Brett could've put alot of that media coverage to bed by just coming out and speaking instead of leaking tidbits of info through his circle of media sycophants like Ed Werder and Al Jones. Getting in front of a camera and speaking his mind instead of sending "it's just rumors" text messages to his media buddies............when he knew he wanted to play. It's like Colin Cowhurd (who I gerneally can't stand) says: "If you don't run we won't chase you".

Favre brought that media storm on himself, and all of us.

Corporate responsibility so to speak. Cowhurd is just deflecting the blame of how his stupid media conglomerate foams at anything w/ worth juicing.

They'll squeeze juice out of a turnip if you'll watch them do it.

Still two parties to blame, and you could even say their (ESPNs)willingness to chase Brett's tail or allow it to BE a story is the ultimate blame.

There's no TO fiasco if there isn't a camera in his face. Stephon Marbury would just stop his stupid internet broadcast if people weren't watching.

ESPN is an E-N-A-B-L-E-R.

[metallicatz]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

Yeah I can agree with you on that.

[wwharton]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

Yea...but in the context of the first post of this thread the OP goes to call him overrated based on shortcomings in playoff success in the 2000's.

So the only reason he is overrated is because after 1997 he never played in another superbowl? He had just empty numbers that don't spell true greatness?

That's where I vastly disagree. I mean Marino didn't have nearly the amount of success, but he's given a pass based on being a extremely talented passer. However, Brett while a very good passer (not on Marino's level persay) possessed other intangibles that made him the QB he was (his consecutive game steak speaks to that).

So because Brett accumulated his numbers in a fashion which also presented him w/ the career mark in INTs he's overrated?

Some of the things said against Favre in this thread are insane. But to use a comparison, if someone says Moss is the greatest (or even second best bc there's no argument for WR) and you argue he's not bc of lack of physicality or something (summarizing from another thread about WRs) then it's a good point. It's not good enough to say Moss sucks but good enough to say he's not as good as someone else who's done other things well too. I'm not trying to extend this into a Moss discussion. Just saying the "reasonable" criticisms of Favre on the field aren't to say he sucks or isn't a HOFer or even in the top 10. I think most reasonable people agree that he's a first ballot HOFer and at least hovering around the top 10 of all time.

Corporate responsibility so to speak. Cowhurd is just deflecting the blame of how his stupid media conglomerate foams at anything w/ worth juicing.

They'll squeeze juice out of a turnip if you'll watch them do it.

Still two parties to blame, and you could even say their (ESPNs)willingness to chase Brett's tail or allow it to BE a story is the ultimate blame.

There's no TO fiasco if there isn't a camera in his face. Stephon Marbury would just stop his stupid internet broadcast if people weren't watching.

ESPN is an E-N-A-B-L-E-R.

True, but we're only talking about one of the two parties at blame in this thread. Because there is another party out there doesn't mean we should ignore the one we have here. Favre is very much to blame for the circus around him the last few years.

[loganone]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

Oh and lest we forget that Favre was on his way to playing in the 2003 NFC Championship and could've very likely taken Tampa Bay down in that game after beating them in the reg. season (21-13) AT TAMPA BAY.

Not to mention they beat the AFC's Superbowl rep. Oakland Raiders that year 41-7.

HOWEVER

On a 4th and 26, on a play that was perhaps the greatest I had ever seen until Tyree's catch, the Packers season came to an end in a miracle-type fashion. That catch put the Eagles in FG position to win in O/T.

So the way the OP states his "lack of success" / "choker status" is aggregiously OVERSTATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That play only led to the tying field goal. The Eagles won the game in OT thanks to a boneheaded Favre INT when he chucked the ball up to no one in particular.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

That play was still huge because there would've been no way the Eagles could win that game unless they somehow converted that, which unfortunately they did.

[pLaY_mAkEr84]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

I liked Brett Farve until he retired, then game back, then retired, and almost came back again. But now, he's just plain frusterating..

[dragon4ever]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

Since it is far too time consuming to bother looking up game by game results, I'll just give you a stat I know off the top of my head. Brett Favre I believe is #2 on the all-time 4th quarter come backs list (feel free to check that because I might be off by a position or two). So the statement in bold absolutely can not be true.

Come back at me when those 4th quarter combacks really mattered. It's what you do in the postseason, or in Brett's case a lack thereof, that make the real difference.

Let's closely examine Favre's postseason struggles, beginning in 2001. In 2001, the Packers finished second in the NFC Central with a 12-4 mark. Favre led the Packers to a home win over the San Francisco 49ers, earning them the right to travel to St. Louis to play the 14-2 Rams. The Packers lost 45-17 and Brett Favre threw an NFL postseason record six interceptions, three of which were returned for touchdowns.

In 2002, the No.3 Packers hosted the No.6 Atlanta Falcons in the wild-card round. Brett Favre had never lost when the game time temperature was 34 degrees or below (a record of 35-0). The Packers had gone 8-0 at home in the regular season and no visiting team had ever won at Lambeau Field in the playoffs (13 games). The Falcons, led by 22-year-old Michael Vick, spanked the Packers 27-7.

In 2003, the Packers finished first in the division, winning 10 games. They defeated the Seattle Seahawks in overtime in the wild-card round of the playoffs, thanks to an interception touchdown by cornerback Al Harris. In the NFC Divisional playoff game, Favre's overtime pass sailed over the head of the nearest Green Bay Packer. Brian Dawkins caught the pass—the only pass I've ever heard described a punt—and returned it 35 yards to set up David Akers' game-winning 31-yard field goal.

In 2004, the Packers again won the division with 10 games. They hosted the eight-win division rival Minnesota Vikings in the wild-card round—a team they had defeated twice in the regular season. But this time, the Packers were clobbered 31-17, as Favre threw four interceptions and fumbled once. The Vikings joined that year's Rams as the only teams to win a playoff game without finishing above .500 during the regular season.

In 2007, the 13-3 Packers hosted the 10-6 Giants in the conference championship game, after demolishing the Seahawks 42-20 in the divisional playoffs. Tied 20-20 after regulation, Favre threw an interception to Corey Webster on the first play of overtime. The Giants won on a 47-yard field goal, making Favre the first quarterback in the history of the NFL to throw an interception in overtime in a playoff game twice in a career.

Now I am absolutely not trying to take away from Favre's accomplishments in the playoffs before 2001, notably his Super Bowl win in 1996 and NFC championship in 1997.

[JBH3]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

That play only led to the tying field goal. The Eagles won the game in OT thanks to a boneheaded Favre INT when he chucked the ball up to no one in particular.

That play was still huge because there would've been no way the Eagles could win that game unless they somehow converted that, which unfortunately they did.

Exactly Pack...there is not Favre INT w/o a miracle 4th and 26 first down catch. We're not talking about Favre choking in 2003 if the defense stops on 4th and 26. How people blatantly choose to look past that is unfathomable.

ALSO DRAGON...It's ill-advised to assume EVERY SINGLE FAVRE INTERCEPTION is due to poor judgement on the QBs end.

What if he's throwing to a receiver running a specific route and doesn't get to the ball in time or any like scenario.

How can you diffuse that? Are you ever even going to respond to anything I posted?

[KSUowls]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

Let's closely examine Favre's postseason struggles, beginning in 2001. In 2001, the Packers finished second in the NFC Central with a 12-4 mark. Favre led the Packers to a home win over the San Francisco 49ers, earning them the right to travel to St. Louis to play the 14-2 Rams. The Packers lost 45-17 and Brett Favre threw an NFL postseason record six interceptions, three of which were returned for touchdowns.

Bad game no other explanation.

In 2002, the No.3 Packers hosted the No.6 Atlanta Falcons in the wild-card round. Brett Favre had never lost when the game time temperature was 34 degrees or below (a record of 35-0). The Packers had gone 8-0 at home in the regular season and no visiting team had ever won at Lambeau Field in the playoffs (13 games). The Falcons, led by 22-year-old Michael Vick, spanked the Packers 27-7.

Atlanta was practically built for a January game in Green Bay. One of the best rushing teams in the NFL they held the ball most of the game and ran for nearly 200 yards against the Green Bay defense. Green Bays offense had nothing but Favre giving them anything gaining just 56 yards on 19 rush attempts.

In 2003, the Packers finished first in the division, winning 10 games. They defeated the Seattle Seahawks in overtime in the wild-card round of the playoffs, thanks to an interception touchdown by cornerback Al Harris. In the NFC Divisional playoff game, Favre's overtime pass sailed over the head of the nearest Green Bay Packer. Brian Dawkins caught the pass—the only pass I've ever heard described a punt—and returned it 35 yards to set up David Akers' game-winning 31-yard field goal.

You left out how Favre threw for 300 yards, 1 TD and 0 interceptions against Seattle. You also left out how Ahman Green managed just 66 yards on 23 carries.
Favre production that day was the reason GB was able to score 3 offensive touchdowns giving Al Harris the chance for a game sealing pick 6.

Against Philly well #1 Philly was simply a better team. Secondly you're picking on Favre for one bad play. Up to that point he had been extremely efficient throwing 2 Tds and 0 picks with 180 yards. One bad play in a game does not mean that he choked it away.

In 2004, the Packers again won the division with 10 games. They hosted the eight-win division rival Minnesota Vikings in the wild-card round—a team they had defeated twice in the regular season. But this time, the Packers were clobbered 31-17, as Favre threw four interceptions and fumbled once. The Vikings joined that year's Rams as the only teams to win a playoff game without finishing above .500 during the regular season.

Beating any team 3 times in one season is hard, much less a rival. Lets also not forget that Minnesota played them extremely tough in the 2 regular season meetings losing 34-31 each time. This was not the upset you would have people believe.

In 2007, the 13-3 Packers hosted the 10-6 Giants in the conference championship game, after demolishing the Seahawks 42-20 in the divisional playoffs. Tied 20-20 after regulation, Favre threw an interception to Corey Webster on the first play of overtime. The Giants won on a 47-yard field goal, making Favre the first quarterback in the history of the NFL to throw an interception in overtime in a playoff game twice in a career.

Let me first point out that these were the eventual superbowl champion New York Giants. Secondly, few quarterbacks have the opportunity to throw multiple overtime playoff interceptions.
And finally we have the tiny little fact that Brett Favre was the one and only reason the game went to overtime. Green Bay managed just 28 yards rushing in that game...let me repeat that one, 28 yards rushing. I'm not quite sure how you blame 1 person as the choke artists playing a superior team when he accounted for the teams entire offensive production that day.



What you have done here is blamed losses on Favre that for the most part he was the only one coming to play for his team in those games.

One last thing I feel the need to mention. NowQB is going to win in the post season without players around him, and if you want to be consistently good in the post season you need a good defense. From 2002-2007 though the Green Bay defenses ranked in the top 10 just once, and 3 times outside of the top 20

Here are a few career post season stats for Favre
- 11-0 when the defense holds an opponent to 20 points or less
- 3-8 when the offense fails to score 25 or more points (for emphasis this equates to a minimum of 4 scores)

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated

Oh and anybody that actually knows Green Bay Football, knows that the 2004 Defense was one of the worst in the league that year and we literally had to score 30+ EVERY game to win because the Defense couldn't make ANY stops.

In 2004, the Packers again won the division with 10 games. They hosted the eight-win division rival Minnesota Vikings in the wild-card round—a team they had defeated twice in the regular season. But this time, the Packers were clobbered 31-17, as Favre threw four interceptions and fumbled once. The Vikings joined that year's Rams as the only teams to win a playoff game without finishing above .500 during the regular season.

Since you brought that game up, let me give you a little rundown here:
First Play of the Game: Daunte Culpepper dodges a sack and dumps it off to Moe Williams and he takes it for a 68 yd TD pass. Packers get the ball and go 3 and out after Favre was sacked for a 10 yd loss. The Packers punt the ball and Nate Burleson returns it to the 45 yd line and 3 plays later, Culpepper tosses a 20 yd TD to Randy Moss. So in 4 plays. the Vikings are already up 14-0 and Culpepper has 2 TDs.

Now before I go on, I'd like for you to list the number of QBs who came back from being down 14-0 in the first 5 minutes, while having one of the WORST defenses in the league. Go on, I'll wait....

Now to continue:

Najeh Davenport returns a Kickoff 30 yards and gives us good field position at the 42 yd line. 2 plays later, Favre throws an Interception to Antoine Winfield, after Javon Walker, who was supposed to run a Slant, runs a fly and Winfield picks the pass off and returns it to the Vikings 43 yard line. Culpepper then completes 2 passes for 19 yds and runs for another 23 yds to set up a 35 yd FG by Morten Anderson and all of a sudden in less than 10 minutes, the Packers are down 17-0 in the 1st Quarter. But I guess that's all Favre's fault right there too, right?

Now, on the next kickoff, Davenport runs that back for 21 yds and then Favre hits Walker on a 21 yarder to set up a Ryan Longwell FG and now the score is now 17-3 thru 1 quarter. On the next possession, the Packers force a 3 and out on the Vikings and the Favre gets the ball and puts the Pack back on the board with a TD to Bubba Franks to make it a 17-10 game now in the 2nd. On the Vikings next possession, Culpepper hits Nate Burleson on a 29 yd pass and Culpepper runs for 23 yds on the next play and gets the ball to the GB 9 yd line but couldn't get any points after the Packers blocked a FG by Anderson. One play later, Favre throws another INT to Brian Russell and returned it 14 yds to the Packers 28 and on the next play, Culpepper hits Burleson for a 19 yd TD pass and the Vikings are up 24-10. Favre gets the ball back and leads the Packers to the Vikings 8 yd line to set up a Ryan Longwell FG, but he misses that and were down 24-10 at the half.

In the 4th Quarter, the Packers march the ball up the field and get the ball in the End Zone after a 1 yd run by Davenport makes the score 24-17. On the Vikings very next possesion, they march 66 yds up the field and cap it off with a 34 yd TD pass to Randy Moss(to which he proceded to moon our crowd)and make it 31-17. The Packers go 3 and out and give the ball back to the Vikings with 9 minutes left but they held the ball til it was about 8 seconds left because the Defense could not make any stops.

So, with that being said, did Favre play a crappy game? Hell yea, but any REAL Packer Fan or any other REAL Football Fan period that watched that game or any other Packer game that entire season could tell you that Favre not(in some cases)the reasons why we lost that year.

JBH, he's not going to respond to us or address any of our points that we made because that would actually steer him AWAY from what he's trying to accomplish, which is to blame Favre and Favre ONLY for all the Packers losses.