NFL Off Topic

[mestevo]

Re: NFL Off Topic

At the very least I expect the Ravens won't start him, not sure how much they can do aside from releasing.

Good luck NFLPA with the PR war defending him from further punishment, lol.

Also not sure there's 'double jeopardy' in the code of conduct.

If the nfl hasn't seen it and they've caught Rice lying to them then I think it's reopened and he gets ~8-10 games, 6 for the incident under the new policy and then more for the obstruction.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Regarding the double jeopardy, my guess is that the NFL can't suspend him again for the same thing twice, but that the Ravens could (or could outright release him). That's just my guess though. I feel like Rice's lawyers would easily sue if the NFL tried to suspend him again for the incident after he already began serving his suspension that both he and the league agreed to.

The Personal Conduct Policy is incredibly broad in allowing the NFL to levy suspensions. Especially with "new" evidence, I think they can absolutely increase punishment if they want.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: NFL Off Topic

The NFL's biggest shill, Peter King, reported that they saw the video before they gave the initial punishment. He's backtracking today but that's actually in print. That's really all I need to believe that they saw the video beforehand and foolishly didn't think it'd ever get out.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: NFL Off Topic

The Personal Conduct Policy is incredibly broad in allowing the NFL to levy suspensions. Especially with "new" evidence, I think they can absolutely increase punishment if they want.

Yeah, if they really hadn't seen the video before, there might be a loophole or something. I don't know. That was a complete guess on my part.

[areobee401]

Re: NFL Off Topic

The NFL's biggest shill, Peter King, reported that they saw the video before they gave the initial punishment. He's backtracking today but that's actually in print. That's really all I need to believe that they saw the video beforehand and foolishly didn't think it'd ever get out.

I assumed the NFL has purchased the security footage from the casino to prevent it from getting out. The video leaking does the NFL or the casino any good. Bad business for both.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: NFL Off Topic

The casino recently closed. Which probably has something to do with the video surfacing.

[areobee401]

Re: NFL Off Topic

The casino recently closed. Which probably has something to do with the video surfacing.

Thanks for clearing that up. Makes sense now.

[ubernoob]

Re: NFL Off Topic

That wasn't speculation, but something actually said by his attorney during the case I believe.

No that was his attorney saying "hyoptheticals."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/24/rices-lawyer-says-a-lot-about-the-case-hypothetically/

I dont think the NFL saw the video, doubling down on this only to be proven wrong later is how people get fired.

No comment from NFLPA and Ravens. I'd be interested in if the police could confirm if this video was shared or not.

Also interested in if the video conflicts with what Rice told Goodell that lead to leniency.

You grossly underestimate league influence. The league and teams have a plethora of former law enforcement officers employed by them privately.

They find out every chick a potential draftee slept with. They find out every little thing about someones life. Get outta here if you don't think they either didn't watch the video for their own reasons, or are covering up the fact that *some* people in the organization viewed it.

If the NFL wanted to see it, they could have (or did) see it.

[SPTO]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I've remained quiet on this issue even from the beginning but i've been following it. This has been fumbled so horribly by everyone involved and after seeing the video....Man, there's no defending Rice on this one. A few points to make here:


1. If Goodell saw this video and honestly thought 2 games was enough than...I don't know what the hell he was smoking. Even if he didn't see the video he had to know in the back of his mind that eventually something like this is going to hit the fan. This is not surprising at all where i'm sitting because Rob Ford, the mayor of Toronto has had some incredibly damning video (including one the police had that got leaked) that eventually forced him to go into rehab. These things DO get out there and you have to be proactive and honest about everything or you get a situation like Ford or this one.

2. I don't think double jeopardy applies to the NFL personal conduct policy so Goodell has a wide berth to re-calibrate and save face by suspending Rice for a year. The PA has ZERO leverage in this as I don't think it's wide to make yourself look like a defender of a wife beater. Now, if it's true (which I doubt) that Goodell didn't see this video it also opens up the possibility of expanding the suspension to a year as he can say this new evidence changes EVERYTHING.

3. Rice should be effing ashamed of himself but something tells me he isn't. I don't know how the hell the Ravens organization could allow Rice and his wife to sit there and have his wife apologize for her "role" in this. That's one of the most disgusting displays i've seen in my entire life. I have a feeling Rice put some heavy pressure on his wifey to do that whether it be verbally or "shudder" physically.

[wwharton]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I hope that anyone that stuck up for Ray Rice in this ordeal takes a good long hard look at the elevator video of him absolutely waxing his wife.

I don't think anyone stuck up for Rice (even if they are twisted enough to think what he did was okay). I commented a lot on being annoyed about how this was being treated. I'll say more on that later since I know I'll get blasted for it.

What can they (the legal system) do though, if his wife didn't press charges?

The state can press charges. I think it's usually difficult in this situation bc it becomes he said, she said and she ain't saying... but with video evidence they shouldn't need her testimony, which is what bothers me about all of this.

Am I the only one who looks at this and says, "Pretty much what I expected, ******* made a terrible decision. Move on."


I mean, my approach, when it comes to law and handing out punishment is to prevent the issue from happening again and if a person is seen as a threat to society, to separate them from society, i.e. incarceration.


This, from my knowledge, is a first time offense, and Rice isn't known to be a particularly violent man, to my knowledge. I think the NFL and media are blowing this out of proportion and that the legal system got this one correct. He got away with a no longterm harm, you get a second chance ruling. Even if the law had seen this, how does it change what we already knew. He knocked her out cold with his hands. Pretty much what Rice stated already.

Definitely isn't "what I expected" because everything I heard was that she was either an aggressor or equally active participant. This video shows that's far from the case. Hell, she doesn't even look drunk.

But I kind of hear what you're saying (to a degree). He admitted to hitting her and most of the people initially outraged described it as happening exactly as it looks like it did, so in that sense, it isn't anything new. There is also no way the police and Goodell didn't see this video so there isn't any new "evidence", just new reason for some to get pissed off all over again, and some to see that it was worse than we were lead to believe.

Nahhhh, I'm sorry even as a Ravens fan. I'm pretty much taking a stance that the Ravens Organization needs to punish him. I know they generally defer punishment of players to the league, but I think they need to step up here and suspend him. There is nothing there on that tape that says he should not be punished more severely. I also think the law enforcement that covered for him needs their badges taken away. They led a lot of people wrongly. The initial report was that she spit on him and that she had some provocation in the matter, which left some people not knowing what to say about it. I was one of those people. Even then, I said he shouldn't have hit her, but to be spit on is one of the most disrespectful things and no one should accept that either. So I didn't know what to do with it due to a false police report. But that video does not show any of that. So Rice, the authorities who generated a false report, the DA of NJ should all be facing more severe punishment. If the state of NJ isn't going to do it and if the NFL isn't going to do it, then the Ravens organization needs to do it.

I'm right there with you LBz, but I still stand short of these punishments everyone wants to hand down. I don't want to live in a society where you cut off a hand when someone steals. Probably a bad analogy but my point is people always scream for the most severe punishments for everything and it just doesn't work that way.

Should Rice have gotten a longer suspension? It depends on how you look at it. For me it always starts with the law. I'm pissed that he got a slap on the wrist there (and I've brought this up many times but now seeing the video, how the hell did they let them go home together?). I don't think it should be the responsibility of the employer to correct perceived mistakes in the law.

But that leads to the "protecting the shield" side of things. Well Rice is FAR from the first player to be involved in domestic violence. As I mentioned earlier, the Ravens most popular active player, Suggs, has done worse (imo) but it didn't hit the wide public eye that this did. The NFL should've had their NEW policy years ago. So taking emotion out of it, the punishment was on par with what the NFL has done for years, right or wrong. If we know that, a video shouldn't make it different.

At the end of the day, that was horrible. And this isn't the place for it (it's the NFL forum so we should be talking about the league actions) but I still wish more was being made out of the law enforcement's actions. LBz, you seem to think that the NJ law enforcement swept things under the rug bc it's Rice. I actually HOPE that's the case and they are investigated for it. Unfortunately, I don't think so. I think far too many situations like this are treated like this. Maybe one good thing (besides the NFL's new policy) will be they take a look at the punishment for these situations more seriously everywhere. But I fear that won't happen since the NFL is really the only ones catching heat.

End of rant, hope it makes sense. I'm sure flames are coming anyway so flame away.

[ubernoob]

Re: NFL Off Topic

2. I don't think double jeopardy applies to the NFL personal conduct policy so Goodell has a wide berth to re-calibrate and save face by suspending Rice for a year. The PA has ZERO leverage in this as I don't think it's wide to make yourself look like a defender of a wife beater. Now, if it's true (which I doubt) that Goodell didn't see this video it also opens up the possibility of expanding the suspension to a year as he can say this new evidence changes EVERYTHING.

Yes and no.

If they *haven't* seen the video, they can up his suspension. If they did see it, there's nothing they can do, due to the NFLPA and all the bargaining. Suspensions can only be upheld or reduced I believe, I don't think they can be increased without extenuating circumstances (which, the video not being seen before would be.)

I'm not near 100% sure on that, but that's my understanding of things.

[bigbob]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I'm still a little surprised that Goodell hasn't made any kind of statement yet.

[SPTO]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I'm still a little surprised that Goodell hasn't made any kind of statement yet.

I think because he knows that if he gets up on a podium to discuss this that he's going to get blasted by the media. I'm sure he'll have a strategy mapped out for tomorrow though. This goes beyond sports so you're going to get the mainstream news media involved as well at a presser.

[12]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Count me in the camp that believes the NFL absolutely saw this video. How can anyone truly believe that a juggernaut like the NFL, with it's endless stream of money and resources, was somehow in the dark on this? No way. No way in hell.

No damn way TMZ obtains this video and the NFL is incapable of seeing it beforehand. They took a calculated, arrogant risk that the video would never get out, and they were wrong. The last thing they wanted was the public to see this, but Goodell rolled the dice and it blew up in his face. The backlash from this is going to be a nightmare for the NFL.

Rice deserves to be banished for life. Spitting on her, the initial jab, and the knockout punch shows his total disregard for the woman that he professes to love. And after she's knocked out, he treats her like a dog. Then he sits back and listens to her apologize? He deserves to be in prison, rather than performing in front of thousands of fans and making millions. Hopefully his wife's father rectifies the situation. I sure in the **** would if I were him.

[12]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I mean this sincerely... I hope someone protects Janay from her husband. Because I doubt this is an isolated incident (it rarely, rarely is with abused women). I hope someone stands up to this criminal and protects her, because it could truly save her life.