NFL Off Topic

[redsox4evur]

Re: NFL Off Topic

So if a player is "generally aware" of incidents which may be against the league's rules and conduct policy and obstructing any kind of investigation it's ok?

Wow...alright then.

The obstruction part I think is a no-no, they can be suspended. But being generally aware you can't be. Look at Jay Feely from a few years ago. There were Jets employees doing something close to this. And Feely was generally aware according to the league, but he didn't get suspended for it.

[SPTO]

Re: NFL Off Topic

The obstruction part I think is a no-no, they can be suspended. But being generally aware you can't be. Look at Jay Feely from a few years ago. There were Jets employees doing something close to this. And Feely was generally aware according to the league, but he didn't get suspended for it.

ah ok thanks for the explanation.

[redsox4evur]

Re: NFL Off Topic

ah ok thanks for the explanation.

Also that's why Feely was in court this week. And no problem, Florio did an interview on Comcast SportsNet New England caught parts of it. But not all of it because I'm at work. If I can find the interview online I will post it here.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NFL Off Topic

The **** up of Roger Goodell. Good read btw

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-arrogance-of-roger-goodell-215731603.html

[N51_rob]

Re: NFL Off Topic

The **** up of Roger Goodell. Good read btw

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-arr...215731603.html

This was great.

"[Due to Pash's] designation as co-lead investigator with Ted Wells, it is logical that he could have valuable insight into the course and outcome of the Investigation … ," Berman aptly noted.

How about that the NFL was obligated to share evidence, a concept so basic and intrinsic and obvious that it was an actual punch line in "My Cousin Vinny."

"It's called disclosure," Mona Lisa Vito, Bill Belichick's favorite character, says, mocking Vinny's legal education.

"Fundamentally unfair," is how Berman put it in his decision.

(Let's a take a second here to note that the NFL lost a case, in which it was outraged over Brady's supposed lack of cooperation and unwillingness to hand over evidence, in part because it was uncooperative and unwilling to hand over evidence. Seriously.)

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Candyman5]

Re: NFL Off Topic

dsfafsadsa

[TheMatrix31]

Re: NFL Off Topic

And those who unnecessarily memeify everything on the planet.

[Candyman5]

Re: NFL Off Topic

And those who unnecessarily memeify everything on the planet.

Hey putting words on things is fun! :wink:

[rsnomar05]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Berman went and made his own laws, instead of enforcing the law. There are rules in place in the CBA, NFL can do whatever they want per CBA. Unless you get more judges who think they can make whatever decisions they want, this should be overturned.

The biggest thing about this case, is the fact that the judge just negated a huge part of the CBA that the NFL negotiated for and the NFLPA conceded so they could have a bigger slice of the revenue pie.

Judge basically said you can't just do whatever the hell you want with impunity in regards to how you punish your employees, even though the CBA says Goodell can do exactly that. I'm not surprised Goodell is appealing the ruling, because he looks like an absolute fool right now (and rightfully so). If Goodell loses on this front, he's pretty much forcing his own resignation.

I liked this post but disagree about Goodell's resignation. I don't think he's going anywhere. He's appealing for the exact reason you stated... this ruling is allowing the players to have their cake and eat it too. People are likely okay with it because it seems to be a result of Goodell abusing the power, but taking emotion out of it, it's pretty messed up by the judge.

Yep it will be huge if the NFL loses the appeal.

Right now Brady or any player can pick a ball up and walk over to a ref, stick a needle in it and let as much air out of it as they want. The NFL can't do a thing about it except fine the player ~$5,000. The FOX Sports article says players could put a substance on their jersey and NFL can't do anything about it.

At this point, if the appeal is not reversed, the CBA is dead as it is unenforceable and we may be heading for a big lockout. The NFLPA will not allow modification and without that the game is under question as nothing can be done to stop cheating.

Anyone who thinks that Judge Berman went and "made up his own laws," or that Brady should have lost because the CBA allows Goodell to do whatever he wants, or that the CBA is now dead and unenforceable, clearly don't have any knowledge of contracts or labor law, or even the law in general. And I would advise those think Judge Berman's decision is terrible to actually read the decision.

Brady made basic discovery requests, where he asked for "any and all documents concerning all prior incidents- whether implicating players, Clubs, or Club personnel-Involving alleged or actual violations of NFL playing rules involving equipment, apparel, or
other game-day playing items (including, but not limited to, footballs, tees, gloves, helmets, pads, eyewear, and cleats/turf shoes), regardless of whether discipline was
ultimately assessed. . . [and] All documents concerning all prior incidents involving an
alleged failure to cooperate (including, but not limited to, any alleged failure to produce electronic information) on the part of an NFL player in an NFL investigation, regardless of
whether or not discipline was ultimately assessed." As I said, these are basic discovery requests, the kind you see in every legal case, and legal parties that fail to comply with these requests are subject to sanction. By denying these requests, and by denying Brady's request to compel testimony of Jeff Pash at the appeal hearing, Goodell (who was conducting the appeal) was denying Brady the ability, and information needed, to mount a fair, viable appeal. Goodell was determining who Brady would be allowed to examine and what evidence Brady would be allowed to have access to. Goodell stated that he had the discretion under the CBA "to compel the testimony of any witnesses whose testimony is necessary for a hearing to be fair," yet he refused to compel the testimony of a CO-AUTHOR OF THE WELLS REPORT. If that doesn't strike you as outrageous than I would question your sanity.

Then, after reusing to allow Brady any access to information and documents concerning prior league action or lack of action regarding violation of gameday equipment (balls, tees, etc.), Goodell stated that there is a "need for consistency in discipline for similarly situated players." Goodell then decided that the closest parallel was "the collectively bargained for discipline imposed for a first violation of the policy governing performance enhancing drugs." In other words, Goodell decided that the closest parallel in terms of punishment to letting air out of footballs was players using PEDs, and he made this decision after denying Brady's discovery request for information that might provide an actual close parallel to the current charge (i.e. past game ball violations). Again, outrageous.

Furthermore, Paul, Weiss was designated as "independent investigator" and had a member co-author the Wells Report, but was then lead counsel for the NFL on the appeal and conducted examinations on behalf of the NFL. I think even those with poor eyesight could easily spot the contradiction there. And this contradiction was a huge screw-up by Goodell. Don't have someone you are calling "independent" be your lead counsel. Pick someone else. It's not that hard. Once more: outrageous.

In addition, Brady was punished in the Wells Report pursuant to the Competitive Integrity Policy which is provided to Chief Executives, GMs, Club Presidents, and Coaches. Brady was never provided with the policy, but was instead provided with the 2014 NFL League Policies for Players. The League Policies for Players does not contain the competitive integrity rule, and yet it was this rule that was used in the Wells Report as a basis for Brady's punishment.

Now, to those who think "but it's the CBA, and the player agreed to it, so Goodell can do what he wants!" No, he can't. That is not how the law works in the U.S. Pursuant to Section 10 of the Federal Arbitration Act, the Court may vacate an arbitration award when the arbitrator "refuses to hear evidence pertinent and material to the controversy." Doesn't it seem like Goodell might have refused to hear such evidence in this case? People cannot collectively bargain away their right to fundamentally fair arbitration, and thus, as outlined in the case Kaplan v. Alfred Dunhill of London, Court's aren't required to rubber stamp arbitration awards "obtained without the requisites of fairness and due process."

Obviously, the decision is about more than just fundamental fairness, and it involves lack of notice to Brady that his alleged misconduct would be equated to the punishment for PEDs. As Judge Berman notes, "Any disciplinary program requires that any individuals subject to that program understand, with reasonable certainty, what results will occur if they breach established rules." I keep hearing people say "but, but, but this means that no player can be punished unless there is a specific rule meting out the punishment. Now players can do what they want!" But that is not what Judge Berman held. Berman wrote that "the league's steroid procedure sets forth in great detail 'testing procedures, procedures in response to positive tests or other evaluation,' 'suspension and related discipline,' 'appeal right,' 'burdens and standards of proof,' and 'discovery,' none of
which has anything to do with Brady's conduct and/or his discipline." In other words, there is no way that Brady could have understood, with any kind of reasonable certainty, that his "general awareness" of others' misconduct or his failure to cooperate would be treated in the same manner as a player testing positive for PEDs.

Think about it this way. Suppose you are a student at a school and one day in Math class you see another classmate cheating on a test. The principal expels you for failing to report the cheating, stating that you were "generally aware of your classmate's cheating." The school does not have an honor code that requires you to report your classmate's cheating. There is no rule or policy which states that you will be disciplined for having any sort of knowledge of other classmates' cheating, and there are no comparable past incidents that resulted in expulsion. Judge Berman is saying that Goodell was acting like the principal, that he was dispensing "his own brand of industrial justice" because there was no way for Brady to know that being "generally aware" of others' misconduct would result in suspension. Especially since the NFL Player Policies clearly state that the first offense for equipment violations "will result in fines."

In the case of failure to cooperate with the investigation, there actually were past incidents that could have served as reasonable notice. For example, Brett Favre was fined $50,000 for obstruction of a league sexual harassment investigation. That would have been one comparable incident on which to base punishment, as opposed to steroid violations that don't relate to Brady's case.

The end result in all this is not the death of the CBA. Instead, it's an upholding of labor and arbitration law. As Judge Berman noted, "Any disciplinary program requires that any individuals subject to that program understand, with reasonable certainty, what results will occur if they breach established rules." Because the PED policy used to discipline Brady in no way related to Brady's alleged misconduct, there is no way Brady could have had any reasonable idea that his alleged misconduct would be subject to PED discipline. That lack of "notice" is a clear violation of the Due Process Clause of the US Constitution. But even if Brady had been given reasonable notice, that still likely wouldn't have mattered. Arbitration decisions can be vacated when the arbitrator "refuses to hear evidence pertinent and material to the controversy." Goodell refused to hear this evidence when he denied Brady's discovery request and refused to allow Jeff Pash to be compelled to testify. For a final time, Outrageous.

[elgreazy1]

Re: NFL Off Topic

As a Cowboys fan I'm pretty pissed about the Brady suspension. I would have loved to see my team go up against the SB champs at full strength. I was hoping it would be an early season litmus test to see just how good this team can be.

On a personal note, the wife (she's from Boston and a huge Boston fan therefore she's a grimy, terrible human being ) and I were going to go watch this game because of the personal associations. These teams rarely play each other and this would have been a great opportunity to check out the new stadium. Still debating on going, but without the star power of Brady it really makes this matchup lackluster.

SCORE!!!! Brady got unsuspended and the wife had secured tickets within 2 minutes, middle section 40 yard-line'ish. This woman is amazing!

[redsox4evur]

Re: NFL Off Topic

ah ok thanks for the explanation.

Couldn't find a link. But read on ESPN it was what I said about Goodell not telling players that they can be suspended for being generally aware of an infraction. So they could nail all the Seahawks that were on the roster when Richard Sherman failed a test for "adderall" because they were generally aware of Sherman taking "adderall".

Also can someone please explain how Belichick has not been touched in this entire investigation? If there is one guy that was generally aware that this happened it was Belichick.

[Candyman5]

Re: NFL Off Topic

So I can't watch the opening Vikings game due to me working that night. What's a good way to listen to the game?

[N51_rob]

Re: NFL Off Topic

So I can't watch the opening Vikings game due to me working that night. What's a good way to listen to the game?

Any of the 1,000 radio apps that you can stream from your phone. Preferably one that carries the Vikings Radio Broadcast station.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[p_rushing]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Any of the 1,000 radio apps that you can stream from your phone. Preferably one that carries the Vikings Radio Broadcast station.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

It may be a challenge to find one, but usually there is 1 or 2 that don't block the online stream.

[Candyman5]

Re: NFL Off Topic

It may be a challenge to find one, but usually there is 1 or 2 that don't block the online stream.

Yeah I just want a radio broadcast. Friend is recording the game for me.