Official Denver Broncos Thread

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

That being said, we were 1-4 at one point and were in contention for the Luck Sweepstakes. Even if we lose next week, we'll be 8-8 and that would be a big improvement over last year. We're such a young team in many respects, and learning how to beat teams you should beat is part of the process. It's easy to be the underdog and play with a chip on your shoulder.

I don't know if 8-8 is a collapse, this year. We had so many games that went our way because of a bounce or a call or what have you. The Vikings game comes to my mind, immediately. If we were rocking those teams into the ground, then suddenly the wheels came off, I think I'd be upset. If we lose to the Chiefs, the taste will be bitter because of many factors. But, after I get over the loss, I'll still call an 8-8 season a success. If someone would've said "the Broncos go 8-8" at the beginning of this season, I think we would've all agreed that such a record would be a pleasant ending. What makes it hard, now, is that the playoffs are RIGHT THERE, in our grasp. I just don't know if we're ready, as a team, to grab it. We may still limp in if the Raiders lose.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I'll see it as a collapse. It's been there for the taking, and they need to take it. They can and should beat teams like Buffalo and Kansas City, they just need to do it. I'd agree if they were finishing out with the likes of NE, GB, and the Saints.

8-8 does look good when you start 1-4, but not when you reach 8-5 and you are favored to win your last two games and don't. My opinion.

I'm starting to severely question this coaching staff. They didn't do a very good job last week and they've been highly suspect in weeks prior. McCoy's offense is embarrassing and predictable. I wonder how much say Fox has? I can't imagine McCoy being retained after this year. The Broncos should be anything BUT predictable with Tebow. There are so many wasted options (no pun intended) and abilities.

Having said that, I don't want any change on the defensive side of the ball. There's been enough of that the last seven years.

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I think the difference for us is that I don't see our 8-5 as something we dominated in, or even won decisively. In many of those games, we were lucky to be in the game at all. Consider the Minnesota game, the Jets game, and the Miami game. All three teams had us on the ropes.

Yeah, the division is there for the taking, but I think that's ignoring what the Broncos really are. Yes, we were 8-5, but again I think just stating that ignores what the Broncos really are. They're a young team that is making a major transition in many regards. Teams like the Jets and Chargers would be what I consider a collapse or a disappointment. Those are teams that had the stability and priming for playoffs. Those teams have had years with their coaching staff to get ready. Both teams are under-performing.

That's not the Broncos. We're a young team that switched QBs during the season. We're a defense that is changing once again (with B.Dawk out once again) and has had questions at the nickel-back position since the start of the year. We're the second-youngest o-line in the NFL. We're a very young receiving corp who only just recently got D. Thomas back. There are just so many variables to the Broncos, to look at their record alone doesn't really take into consideration the current status of this team.

We beat teams that were beat up and downtrodden. We beat the Bears without Jay Cutler and Matt Forte (BARELY). We beat the Minnesota Vikings without Adrian Peterson (BARELY). We barely beat the Miami Dolphins. The Raiders didn't have McFadden. These were teams that A) didn't have their best weapons and B) weren't prepared to face the shiny new option offense (aside from the Bears, who shut us down but felt like fumbling the game to us). The current combined record of our opponents during our winning streak? 39 - 51

The Broncos aren't doing anything different now than they were against those other teams. The difference is that the other teams caught up. The Patriots and Bills (and the Bears) were able to exploit the weaknesses of the Broncos and nullify the strengths. The Bears simply beat themselves. The secret is now out and teams have the Broncos figured out. Contain the run, spy Tebow, and force him to pass.

While I think the coaching staff was out-coached against the Bills, I wouldn't want to suggest a change in our staff. The last thing a very young team needs is more change. Alex Smith of the 49ers is a perfect example of a young player who saw a new offensive coordinator every single year. It clearly stunted his growth. Let the coaching staff have more than one year to do what it needs to do. Don't forget, McCoy is still working with Tebow, and Tebow has not mastered the play book and the offense. I wouldn't doubt for one second that McCoy and Fox are doing what they can to tailor a game plan for Tebow without asking Tebow to carry the load. I don't think he's ready to do that. I do think he can be involved, but he needs a balanced attack. But the bottom line is, let's not be so hasty about calling for ANOTHER coaching change. Another point to keep in mind: this coaching staff had NO OTAs this past off-season. They lost crucial, critical, incredibly-important time that stunted the growth of Tebow and the entire offense. For a team like the Saints, that's no big deal. They know their playbook. Brees can coach it himself. For the Broncos, it's a new deal and the coaches had to implement everything during a time where players would otherwise already know the playbook and would start working on other aspects.

This is a young, young, young team that is going through a lot of growing pains. To suggest we were a decisive 8-5 is, IMO, a bit short-sighted in terms of what kind of team the Broncos are. They were very very lucky to be in the position of AFC west leaders. As I said weeks and weeks ago, other teams were going to figure out the Broncos, and they have. As a fan, I'm very happy to see the growth we have, and to see both sides of the ball grow. We're set up to do good things in the future, and I believe management has us moving in the right direction. If we make the playoffs this year, great! But, I never expected us to come close, so doing so is a bonus for me.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I didn't call for a coaching change. I said that I didn't think McCoy would be retained.

Does any of this sound familiar?

First down...stretch play right (or left, doesn't matter)...2 yards.
Second and 8...read option for 4 yards.
3rd and 4.... Tebow draw for 3 yards.
4th and one....punt.

Rinse and repeat.

I just decribed the majority of Denver's offensive series. Tebow doesn't have to have a grasp of the entire playbook to be effective. You can run so many wrinkles off of their base offense, and they don't do it. Have you noticed that when they scored against Buffalo (first possession of each half), they were mixing in passes and keeping the defense guessing? Then they mysteriously go away from it. Denver's running game is much more effective if the defense has to at least think about the pass.

I don't care if they are young - I see that as an excuse. Instill winning in their heads right now. Coaching has a lot to do with that, and their overly conservative nature is hurting them. If you are going to play conservative and try to win the field position game, YOU HAVE TO GET A FEW FIRST DOWNS. They don't. McCoy should be creative enough to figure out how to at least move the chains. All of these three and outs hurts the defense. Play to win instead of trying not to lose. Given the chance, Fox would have sat on that 7 point lead in Buffalo the whole game. Be a little more aggressive and try to put the other team in a hole for once.

Denver is not good enough to play conservative Fox Ball on a consistent basis. To do that, they have to play mistake free football to have a chance. That hasn't happened the last two weeks and they've gotten thumped.

[SkeeterJD]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I agree with Jonsco. I see this as a collapse if they finish 8-8 just for the fact that these are (were) very winnable games for Denver. They were favored to beat the Bills and I would guess they are favored against Kansas City.

That's fine if you would be content with a .500 record because they are a young team, but I'm not. You tell me that for Denver to lose to K.C., at home, against a QB you know EVERYTHING about, for a chance to get into the playoffs and you don't...that, in every sense of the word is a collapse.

Granted, I will give you (86) that finishing 8-8 is a far better record than I had initially thought they could do and I am very happy in that regard. But I find it hard to make excuses that Denver didn't earn a lot of their games. You mentioned all the players that Denver didn't have to face, but you didn't mention that a lot of the teams Denver played didn't have to face Dumervil, Miller, McGahee, Lloyd, etc...

I don't know how to run an NFL offense, but I would have to believe that doing the same 4-5 plays that Denver runs on first and second down every time is something I could do a lot better. All the opposing teams need to do to beat Denver is play the percentages. If Denver runs the ball consistently on 1st and 2nd down 80% of the time, you play the run and react to the pass. Pretty easy to defend that. McCoy, in my opinion, isn't utilizing the tools he has to run an offense. If you don't see some different wrinkles in their playcalling against K.C., I would not be surprised if McCoy is gone next year.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Fair or not, I see this KC game as a crossroads for Tebow.

[Runnin with Scissors]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Couldn't agree with Broncos86 more. The assessment is logical and objective; the only way you can truly look at this Broncos' season.

I may add that during the run they had a Von Miller creating major havoc on one side, Dumervil on the other that raised the level of play for guys like DJ Williams, Joe Mays, the entire defensive line. The solid play up front allowed Champ Bailey to be his dominant self and even made Andre Goodman look like a real-life football player. It allowed Dawkins to be in and out, showed some promise in Quentin Carter, then all of a sudden with a one-armed Miller, Dumervil began getting more attention thus being basically nullified, the dominoes fell and exposed what this defense's weaknesses are.

No way a Sunday loss can be looked at as a collapse; this season has shown both the potential and the needs of this team. I am so happy with where they are right now because I know all of components (Elway and Fox) are in place for this team to get better and better with another off season of attention.

I haven't enjoyed a Broncos' season like this in some time. Win or lose Sunday I have been proud of my team.

[BallerSoup]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Some people may see 8-8 as a collapse but there were plenty of games that we won we shouldnt have too. Bears, Jets, Vikings to name a few where we needed a late comeback.

I personally see Denver beating the Chiefs and the Chargers beating the Raiders this week.

I too havent enjoyed a Broncos season this much since our Super Bowl season's.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Couldn't agree with Broncos86 more. The assessment is logical and objective; the only way you can truly look at this Broncos' season.

I may add that during the run they had a Von Miller creating major havoc on one side, Dumervil on the other that raised the level of play for guys like DJ Williams, Joe Mays, the entire defensive line. The solid play up front allowed Champ Bailey to be his dominant self and even made Andre Goodman look like a real-life football player. It allowed Dawkins to be in and out, showed some promise in Quentin Carter, then all of a sudden with a one-armed Miller, Dumervil began getting more attention thus being basically nullified, the dominoes fell and exposed what this defense's weaknesses are.

No way a Sunday loss can be looked at as a collapse; this season has shown both the potential and the needs of this team. I am so happy with where they are right now because I know all of components (Elway and Fox) are in place for this team to get better and better with another off season of attention.

I haven't enjoyed a Broncos' season like this in some time. Win or lose Sunday I have been proud of my team.

If you are content with what you just witnessed, that's great. I'm not. Once again, they finished a season by losing three straight, only this time they were lucky enough to back into the playoffs. They played without showing much of a desire to win at all. How do you give up only seven points at home and still lose? The only points they got were off of a gift turnover (where again they went three-and-out).

Aside from the defense, today's game was a total embarrassment. They didn't get beat by Kyle Orton and the Chiefs, they got beat because they played not to lose. They showed no agression. Tebow played like he was scared to make a mistakes. The truth is there are way too many questions left answered, and this team has little to no direction with where they are going on offense.

McCoy will be gone. I don't think it's a given that Tebow handed the keys to the offense. Elway is not going to sit around and watch this much longer.

[Broncos86]

Todays game is a reminder of what kind of team we really are. The Broncos are a lucky 8-8 team. We got lucky bounces to get where we are. If you think we are better than 8-8, you're fooling yourself. What we saw was a one-dimensional offense because Tebow isnt there yet.

I wish we were better, but we have a lot of work to do. Honestly, I think we should've been 6-10. We beat injury plagued teams and got lucky bounces as well.

We aren't a play off team. We got lucky. We're young, we have a long ways to go. What we saw for the past three games is a gimmick offense get solved. Didn't I say that would happen? We're not any better than this. Thinking so is foolish.

Don't expect McCoy to go anywhere. He did well to get productivity out of Tebow. It's not his fault Tebow isn't ready to carry the load. Tebow needs an offseason of work.

[SkeeterJD]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Record has nothing to do with how I feel today about Denver. I would feel a lot better if they were 5-10 going into that Kansas City game and they ended the year thumping the Chiefs. Instead they weaseled their way into the playoffs.

I think with even a hobbled Pittsburgh team, at home, they are going to kill Denver. You want to know why? Because Pittsburgh plays to win. Fox and McCoy showed me nothing in that game that made me believe that they were the aggressor. 3 POINTS!

I have always been an optimistic Tebow supporter. I have had my doubts but then he always seemed to make a play to get back in my good graces. Tebow has regressed, but I also feel as though the lack of creativity in the offensive gameplan has him handcuffed. When you consistently run on first and second down and throw on 3rd down, that is pretty easy to defend. Not only that but it's the same running plays time and time again. You could do so much more with this offense. But...Tebow has missed a lot of reads the past few games and he is playing not to make a mistake. He isn't confident enough in his arm to put the ball there when he plants his foot on his 3 or 5 step drop backs.

But then again, is it that the WR's don't seem to get separation like they should?

Everyone can chastise me all they want, but I am not happy the way the season ended and they do not deserve to be in the playoffs.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Record has nothing to do with the way they played that game yesterday. You can't tell me that that was a game that they should have lost. It was pathetic. No, they shouldn't be a playoff team, but the way they approached that game was an absolute embarrassment.

I couldn't disagree more with your assessment that McCoy got what he could out of Tebow. The playcalling is way to conservative, not to mention extremely predictable. If you want to pin this on Tebow's limited abilitities, that's fine, but the coaching staff could have done a MUCH better job. If I know what play is coming, don't you think the opposing defense does as well? That's poor play calling and coaching. Tebow may be limited, but I'd make an argument that Denver's coaching staff is as well, maybe to a larger extent.

[SkeeterJD]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Record has nothing to do with the way they played that game yesterday.

Read my mind...

[wwharton]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Record has nothing to do with the way they played that game yesterday. You can't tell me that that was a game that they should have lost. It was pathetic. No, they shouldn't be a playoff team, but the way they approached that game was an absolute embarrassment.

I couldn't disagree more with your assessment that McCoy got what he could out of Tebow. The playcalling is way to conservative, not to mention extremely predictable. If you want to pin this on Tebow's limited abilitities, that's fine, but the coaching staff could have done a MUCH better job. If I know what play is coming, don't you think the opposing defense does as well? That's poor play calling and coaching. Tebow may be limited, but I'd make an argument that Denver's coaching staff is as well, maybe to a larger extent.

You guys are right, but Tebow has shown that he has good leadership and an infectious drive. People were going too crazy with their expectations of this team THIS year but I think they've shown something to build on. The question was whether or not they needed to dump Tebow and draft a new QB high. I think the answer is no, give him an offseason to work on his game and sort out the best approach with him under center.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

You guys are right, but Tebow has shown that he has good leadership and an infectious drive. People were going too crazy with their expectations of this team THIS year but I think they've shown something to build on. The question was whether or not they needed to dump Tebow and draft a new QB high. I think the answer is no, give him an offseason to work on his game and sort out the best approach with him under center.

That's true about his leadership and infectious drive (his intangibles), but I don't know if that's enough. He's slow on his reads and everything looks so forced when he throws. The way the ball comes out of his hand is so....bad. It looks like he's throwing an end-over-end change-up half of the time. Maybe he can improve through the offseason. I just don't know if some of his short comings can be fixed. I thought Tebow showed signs of improvement up through the Minnesota game, but I think he has regressed since then. I think he's got a lot going on in his head right now and I honestly believe he's doubting his own abilities to get it done.

I still believe the coaching staff has done a poor job. Yes, they made adjustments to the offense to suit Tebow's game, but they never really built off of it like I feel they could have. They are WAY too predictable.

I will say that I got to see some of what I wanted to see this year and they did do more than I expected. I knew Orton wasn't the answer, and I wanted to see what Tebow could do. My opinion RIGHT NOW is that he is not the solution either, but I am curious to see what he looks like going into next year. I think it's only fair to evaluate him after a full offseason of work. Having said that, it wouldn't bother me if Denver drafted a QB in the first three rounds. It will be interesting to see what they do, because they still have a lot of holes to fill.