Official Denver Broncos Thread

[wwharton]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I agree, but their playcalling was also highly predictable and unimaginative. There is so much that they could do to expand off of the read option, but they didn't. That's why I would like to see a change from McCoy. It's hard to be successful when you are running four wides with three of them running go-routes and the other a curl. Denver had the most success when they mixed things up and kept the defense guessing.

As a basketball coach, I can tell you that I can walk into practice day one with imaginative offensive sets and 10 different defenses with plans to switch from one to the next on the fly. But then I realize most of the team doesn't know how to set a proper pick or get in a fundamental defensive stance and 90% of that goes out the window.

THIS YEAR there wasn't going to be any growth in Tebow during the season. As a coaching staff you look at what you have and gameplan based on it... that's what they did and it got them into the playoffs (and a win!). Now that the season is over you evaluate what you have and figure out how to improve it so you can do more things with your gameplanning next year. If Tebow is going to remain the QB he will have to make improvements to allow them to do that. We also have to consider how quickly those WRs were grasping plays as well... it's not just on Tebow, but definitely not all on the play calling. If they felt Tebow was ready to open the playbook more I'm sure they would've done it. I know people say "Well why did it seem like they just let him play late in the game?" They did, but you can't let your QB go school yard all game and expect to win very much. That's an act of desperation that just happened to work out more than not. You also can't call all bootlegs and roll outs to get him on the move or design plays that factor in for the pocket breaking down (or forcing the QB to hold the ball too long).

Looking forward, you can't base too much on what they did this year... just the base in terms of the offense IMO. They will expand on the play calling and it'll be up to Tebow to be able to handle it or they will get someone else.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

As a basketball coach, I can tell you that I can walk into practice day one with imaginative offensive sets and 10 different defenses with plans to switch from one to the next on the fly. But then I realize most of the team doesn't know how to set a proper pick or get in a fundamental defensive stance and 90% of that goes out the window.

THIS YEAR there wasn't going to be any growth in Tebow during the season. As a coaching staff you look at what you have and gameplan based on it... that's what they did and it got them into the playoffs (and a win!). Now that the season is over you evaluate what you have and figure out how to improve it so you can do more things with your gameplanning next year. If Tebow is going to remain the QB he will have to make improvements to allow them to do that. We also have to consider how quickly those WRs were grasping plays as well... it's not just on Tebow, but definitely not all on the play calling. If they felt Tebow was ready to open the playbook more I'm sure they would've done it. I know people say "Well why did it seem like they just let him play late in the game?" They did, but you can't let your QB go school yard all game and expect to win very much. That's an act of desperation that just happened to work out more than not. You also can't call all bootlegs and roll outs to get him on the move or design plays that factor in for the pocket breaking down (or forcing the QB to hold the ball too long).

Looking forward, you can't base too much on what they did this year... just the base in terms of the offense IMO. They will expand on the play calling and it'll be up to Tebow to be able to handle it or they will get someone else.

I get what you are saying, but the predictability is what bothered me the most. If they line up and I have a pretty good idea of what they are going to do 80% of the time, you can bet the defense does as well. Even if they are limited, there are things that can be done to mix things up. That didn't happen very often. Usually with a young quarterback, coaches will try to get him some high percentage throws to help build his confidence, not to mention help move the chains. We didn't see that much. Most of Tebow's throws were low percentage passes. It's actually somewhat intriguing that his completion percentage was as high as it was given the types of throws he was attempting.

Having said that, there were plenty of times when you'd see his check-down guy standing in the middle of the field and Tebow wouldn't hit him. Granted, most of the time that guy was Lance Ball, and I wouldn't throw it to him either. It's no secret that Tebow is not seeing the field very well right now. There were guys open; he just was not getting them the ball. Throw in all the drops and it starts looking like a train wreck real quick.

I'm interested to see what Tebow does in the offseason. How dedicated is he to becoming better? I'm concerned about that. He's a great guy and he has stated that his most important thing is helping others. I think that's awesome, but I almost feel like if he is going to be the starting QB of the Denver Broncos, that's where his priorities need to be right now. I know.... that sounds horribly selfish as a fan.

I am hoping I am being too hard on McCoy. He's going to be around for at least another year. I know he's a good coach and he's well respected, but I still think he's lacking in creativity.

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

As a hockey coach, I know precisely what he means. One year, I came in with these great schemes or the power play. Then I got into practice and saw my team with basic concepts. The whole plan went out the window and we had to run a very basic power play. I was asked by parents "why don't you do this?" or "why don't you do that?" I straight-up told them "because the kids can't execute that."

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I don't know if comparing youth sports to pro sports is necessarily comparing apples-to-apples. I have also had my share of coaching experiences with my son's football team and while the lines may be somewhat parallel, they are still very far apart. In youth sports, you are dealing with kids that are still learning fundamentals and coordination, and eloborate schemes are not usually possible. **Insert Tebow joke here** The NFL consists of elite athletes and coaches who have been doing this their whole lives.

The Broncos ran the ball on more than 90% of their first downs. That's too predictable by any standard. Ask any QB what the best down to throw on is and he will tell you it's first down.

The Broncos don't have the talent to line up with the "here's what we are going to do, and we don't think you can stop it" attitude. As a result, they have to keep the defense off-balance. Most of that comes down to coaching and preparation. From my perspective, I didn't see much creativity outside of installing the read-option. They didn't expand off of that nearly as much as they could have.

Even if you are limited on what you can do, you can still be creative in attacking the other team.

[kehlis]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I think this is a big loss for the Broncos. I loved their defensive scheme and aggressiveness this year. I just don't want to have to seem them get ANOTHER knew defensive coordinator.


Good for Allen though. Seemed like a good guy.



Edit: What about Raheem Morris for DC? He was who I wanted them to hire as HC instead of McD.

[SkeeterJD]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I think this is a big loss for the Broncos. I loved their defensive scheme and aggressiveness this year. I just don't want to have to seem them get ANOTHER knew defensive coordinator.


Good for Allen though. Seemed like a good guy.



Edit: What about Raheem Morris for DC? He was who I wanted them to hire as HC instead of McD.

I would be in favor of Morris. However, I saw something about Jack Del Rio being a top contender for the DC job.

Regardless of who they get, another change in systems has got to put a lot of strain on the veterans. They need to establish continuity for more than one year.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Pretty quick leap for Allen, seeing how 366 days ago he was the DB coach for the Saints. Seven years, seven different defensive coordinators. That has to be a record.

I would have liked to have seen Allen stay, but it may not hurt as much this year changing defensive coordinators since Fox is defensive minded coach anyway. I guess it depends on how much Fox was involved.

I like the idea of Morris or Del Rio, but I wouldn't be surprised if they promote from within. Richard Smith might make the most sense.

[SkeeterJD]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I agree. That article that Woody Paige wrote made a lot of sense. If Del Rio has interest right now to become another head coach in the NFL or NCAA there would be high chance that we would be seeing 8 coordinators in 8 years in 2013.

Hiring from within may make the most sense. If they hire Smith he would have to show more promise than when they promoted Martindale to coordinator. I want to see them stick with a guy for more than a year, but if their defensive ranking drops back down to worst in the league do you give him a pass and see what he could do the next year or do you look elsewhere? I think that if they do hire Smith, the defensive scheme shouldn't change too much and they should be able to maintain their current level.

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

We will miss Dennis Allen, but I think he benefitted from John Fox's vision of defense. IMO, this is Coach Fox's defense that Dennis Allen then drove. This won't be so disruptive. John Fox will bring in a guy, or promote a guy, who will run the exact same scheme. The defense won't be learning new terms or scheme concepts.

[wwharton]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I don't know if comparing youth sports to pro sports is necessarily comparing apples-to-apples. I have also had my share of coaching experiences with my son's football team and while the lines may be somewhat parallel, they are still very far apart. In youth sports, you are dealing with kids that are still learning fundamentals and coordination, and eloborate schemes are not usually possible. **Insert Tebow joke here** The NFL consists of elite athletes and coaches who have been doing this their whole lives.

The Broncos ran the ball on more than 90% of their first downs. That's too predictable by any standard. Ask any QB what the best down to throw on is and he will tell you it's first down.

The Broncos don't have the talent to line up with the "here's what we are going to do, and we don't think you can stop it" attitude. As a result, they have to keep the defense off-balance. Most of that comes down to coaching and preparation. From my perspective, I didn't see much creativity outside of installing the read-option. They didn't expand off of that nearly as much as they could have.

Even if you are limited on what you can do, you can still be creative in attacking the other team.

Generally speaking, I agree. But Tebow's issues are with some fundamental aspects of the position. That's why there have been so many questions about him being able to play QB at the Pro level (and even on the college level). It's amazing that he has success despite not showing signs of solid fundamentals in some key areas but that's what we've seen.

Now don't get me wrong, Tebow throws a better ball than Ronnie Brown (wildcat reference) and he showed he's got some natural raw skills in some of the 4th quarter play when he went school yard. But if the coaches feel (correctly) that expanding on that play throughout a normal game will result in more turnovers then they dial it way back. I don't think they'd ever come into the season with that plan. It was something that materialized as the season went on, especially as it was bringing wins. As a coach, you also know that once the season gets going you just have to adjust your gameplan to give you the best chance to win even if that means kicking it on 1st down every time and just leaving it to the D and special teams. It's very, very odd to see it at this basic of a level in the NFL but to me it's clear how it got to that point... which also makes it clear that it will be more dynamic going into next year. Tebow will need to be ready for that or will be on the bench.

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

The Broncos would do well to get a guy who knows the front seven well. I'd really like to see a guy, like Jack Del Rio, who can come in and instantly gain the respect of the players and bring some moxy. Del Rio would really bring some fire to the defense and get the most out of guys like Von Miller and Dumervil.

Either way, we're going to need a coach who can teach, because we're a defense that is young and will get younger. Our safeties are green, we'll likely pick up a cornerback and tackle in the draft, and guys like Rahim Moore and Nate Irving are really going to need to be coached.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

On the surface, I like the idea of Del Rio coming in, but I don't think he would be here for long and that a little disconcerting to me. I think he's still in the market for a head coaching job. Plus, he'll command a lot of money and perhaps even an assistant head coach title. I don't know if Denver is willing to do that. The Broncos seem to be becoming much more frugal.

I'd like to see someone come in and stay as D coordinator for a few years. I thought that was Allen. He made the jump to D-coordinator really quick.

I agree that the defense is Fox's baby. The defense is going to be rebuilt his way.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Generally speaking, I agree. But Tebow's issues are with some fundamental aspects of the position. That's why there have been so many questions about him being able to play QB at the Pro level (and even on the college level). It's amazing that he has success despite not showing signs of solid fundamentals in some key areas but that's what we've seen.

Now don't get me wrong, Tebow throws a better ball than Ronnie Brown (wildcat reference) and he showed he's got some natural raw skills in some of the 4th quarter play when he went school yard. But if the coaches feel (correctly) that expanding on that play throughout a normal game will result in more turnovers then they dial it way back. I don't think they'd ever come into the season with that plan. It was something that materialized as the season went on, especially as it was bringing wins. As a coach, you also know that once the season gets going you just have to adjust your gameplan to give you the best chance to win even if that means kicking it on 1st down every time and just leaving it to the D and special teams. It's very, very odd to see it at this basic of a level in the NFL but to me it's clear how it got to that point... which also makes it clear that it will be more dynamic going into next year. Tebow will need to be ready for that or will be on the bench.

We are going to know a lot on the first day of camp when we see just how much he improved in the off-season. I'm really on the fence with Tebow. I don't think he's ever going to be a pure pocket passer, but he's got to effective. If he comes out and looks like he just can't do it, it's going to be tough.

I think how the Broncos truly feel about Tebow is going to become evident by what they do in free-agency and the draft.

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

We are going to know a lot on the first day of camp when we see just how much he improved in the off-season. I'm really on the fence with Tebow. I don't think he's ever going to be a pure pocket passer, but he's got to effective. If he comes out and looks like he just can't do it, it's going to be tough.

I think how the Broncos truly feel about Tebow is going to become evident by what they do in free-agency and the draft.

Whaaat? This from the guy who kept defending Tebow against me during the season? Mr. "I like what they're doing?" Now suddenly you're on the fence about Tebow?

The draft won't tell much about the Broncos' plans for Tebow, unless a fantastic QB falls in their laps and they can't refuse. We have WAY too many needs. Cornerback, defensive tackle, linebacker, and running back. These all need to be addressed in the draft. In free agency, we're likely to pick up some depth guys; a back up veteran QB, etc.

[SkeeterJD]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Whaaat? This from the guy who kept defending Tebow against me during the season? Mr. "I like what they're doing?" Now suddenly you're on the fence about Tebow?

The draft won't tell much about the Broncos' plans for Tebow, unless a fantastic QB falls in their laps and they can't refuse. We have WAY too many needs. Cornerback, defensive tackle, linebacker, and running back. These all need to be addressed in the draft. In free agency, we're likely to pick up some depth guys; a back up veteran QB, etc.

From what I remember, Jonsco and I had the same feeling about Tebow. We were not Orton supporters and wanted to see ANYBODY else in there. Tebow came in and was winning games. What's so wrong about defending a winning QB?

I wasn't sure about whether he was going to be the long term solution but liked the fact they found ways to win. I think Jonsco (I could be wrong, and let me know if I am) felt the same way. You (86), however, weren't happy with how they were winning and wanted to see Weber or Quinn in there instead of Tebow.

I bet you would be hard pressed to go back to all the posts and find one that definitively states from Jonsco that he thought Tebow was the long term solution.

I think the draft will tell a lot about how Denver feels about Tebow. If they take a QB in the the first 4 rounds I think it will be very telling.