Official Denver Broncos Thread

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Today's game is prime example of what I said in another thread. Finally, Shurmur realized he needs to run the offense from two TE sets to bolster the running game and protect Drew Lock.

If you can't run and you can't block, no duh your (basically) rookie QB is going to struggle. You don't put a QB in spread formations constantly and ask him to make a bunch of pre and post snap reads. You need to protect him via play calling. Finally, Shurmur did that.

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Putting this here: I believe in Drew Lock!

[studbucket]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Putting this here: I believe in Drew Lock!

I have wanted to, but I just am having a hard time. With the eye test, he looks OK. However, by reasonable statistical measures (ANY/A is my favorite stat), he was among the very worst (if not the worst) starting QBs in the NFL last year.

I've learned that I can't just ignore glaring signs like this. His stats are literally ranked where Joe Flacco was ranked in the seasons before he came to Denver.

Lock will uncertainly get better, as he's young, but the ask right now is not to go from B- to A-. We're asking him to go from a D to a B. I'm not sure I see it.

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I have wanted to, but I just am having a hard time. With the eye test, he looks OK. However, by reasonable statistical measures (ANY/A is my favorite stat), he was among the very worst (if not the worst) starting QBs in the NFL last year.

I've learned that I can't just ignore glaring signs like this. His stats are literally ranked where Joe Flacco was ranked in the seasons before he came to Denver.

Lock will uncertainly get better, as he's young, but the ask right now is not to go from B- to A-. We're asking him to go from a D to a B. I'm not sure I see it.

So, imagine the following:

You're a rookie QB and you miss most of the year with a hand injury. You spent most of your time in a simulator trying to learn the offense through the eyes of Joe Flacco. You can't spend ANY of this time actually working on your throwing mechanics until you heal. You learn the offense, you come in, you have success in the last 4 games.

Next season, COVID! Oh but wait, new offensive coordinator. So now as a QB, in your SECOND year, you not only have to learn another new offense, you can't actually do it with your team. But not only that, you don't get any preseason games! Off and away. (Peyton Manning has said what you do during the season comes from what you do during the off-season and camp). By the way, your offensive line is young af and largely won't give you the protection you need. Oh, and your offensive coordinator wants you to operate in a spread offense. Good luck working on that footwork.

So now, here you are, in your THIRD season, having had all of ONE actual off-season and TWO offensive coordinators while dealing with two separate injuries in your first two years and everything is now saying "he's a bust."

There's just NO WAY anyone should look at that scenario and say "he's a bust." Nobody should ever ever ever expect a QB in that scenario to succeed. Not ever. From a lack of a consistent learning environment to ever-changing material to learn, Drew Lock has had no ability to actually grow. It's a recipe for failure.

So to look at his stats, blindly, and say "wow, this guy is trash" (as some in the media have been trying to say) is to completely ignore every aspect of actual football. Young QBs NEED the right opportunities to grow. If that weren't the case, people like Mike Greenberg wouldn't be suggesting that Trevor Lawrence stay in college if the Jets had the first overall pick. It's why QBs go to bad teams and their careers are wasted.

It is mind boggling for me to hear people point out stats and yet ignore the extreme scenario Lock was in. Am I saying he IS the answer? No. But you cannot, should not ever give up on such a young talent after TWO YEARS because he went through the crappiest scenario possible.

You have to give a kid like that, with his moxie and talent, the proper opportunity. Because just like Josh Allen, Drew Lock could really spring forth when given those opportunities and everyone in Broncos Country will kick themselves if we let that go. So for now, I'm going to believe in the kid while he grows and continues to learn.

Then you read an article like this: https://www.theringer.com/nfl-playof...s-nfl-playoffs

And you read a quote like this:

“You look at young quarterbacks and the best thing you can do is provide continuity,” Beane said. “We have that here—starting with the same head coach, same coordinator, quarterback coach [Ken Dorsey] in Year 2, so we have a lot of stability there for him.”

Again, I'm not saying Drew Lock will be the next Josh Allen, but if Lock isn't given the proper environment, NOBODY is going to thrive in that. Not Lock, not Josh Allen, not Trey Lance, not Trevor Lawrence.

[studbucket]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

That is a completely reasonable approach and way to look at it.

I do not think his scenario was extreme compared to many NFL QBs and peers. It wasn't ideal, but not extreme.

I could be totally wrong, but in my years as an NFL fan and Broncos fan, I've yet to see a QB effectively turn things around and become the kind of QB you want to build your franchise around (which is the goal for the QB position). My instinct based on what I've watched and his statistics is that he is not the answer for Denver.

If I'm wrong, great, I love watching the Broncos win.

[kehlis]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I have wanted to, but I just am having a hard time. With the eye test, he looks OK. However, by reasonable statistical measures (ANY/A is my favorite stat), he was among the very worst (if not the worst) starting QBs in the NFL last year.

I've learned that I can't just ignore glaring signs like this. His stats are literally ranked where Joe Flacco was ranked in the seasons before he came to Denver.

Lock will uncertainly get better, as he's young, but the ask right now is not to go from B- to A-. We're asking him to go from a D to a B. I'm not sure I see it.

I like him, for many of the reason mentioned above I think he at the very least deserves one more year to see what he can do. He was a second round pick and hasn't had a fair shot due to many reasons over the first couple years.

If after this season, with a full off season and hopefully a healthy roster around him, he sucks, I'll be ready to move on at that point.

I just want him to get a full season in which he hasn't had yet before I'm ready to move on from a high draft pick.

I do think he can be really good but he's coming along at a snails pace and at some point you just can't keep waiting.

[studbucket]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I like him, for many of the reason mentioned above I think he at the very least deserves one more year to see what he can do. He was a second round pick and hasn't had a fair shot due to many reasons over the first couple years.

If after this season, with a full off season and hopefully a healthy roster around him, he sucks, I'll be ready to move on at that point.

I just want him to get a full season in which he hasn't had yet before I'm ready to move on from a high draft pick.

I do think he can be really good but he's coming along at a snails pace and at some point you just can't keep waiting.

Yeah, you just described where I was before last season I told someone that I could see him being a Kirk Cousins level player. After last year, I feel that's an optimistic take.

He will be pushed at camp, because Bridgewater is a competent NFL QB. Reports out of camp so far have it playing out about as you'd expect: Lock is up and down, Bridgewater is more steady.

I'm just sad that we likely don't have a QB to take advantage of all the other talent we have on the roster this year. It's rough to waste seasons in the NFL.

[kehlis]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Yeah, you just described where I was before last season I told someone that I could see him being a Kirk Cousins level player. After last year, I feel that's an optimistic take.

He will be pushed at camp, because Bridgewater is a competent NFL QB. Reports out of camp so far have it playing out about as you'd expect: Lock is up and down, Bridgewater is more steady.

I'm just sad that we likely don't have a QB to take advantage of all the other talent we have on the roster this year. It's rough to waste seasons in the NFL.

To me, the difference between the two is that we know Teddy's ceiling. We don't yet know Lock's.

I'm good on giving up on Lock if we get to the point where we've decided he isn't the one but I"m not there yet.

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

All reports indicate that, right now, they're even as can be. And as of Day 5, Teddy has thrown more INTs than Lock (for what it's worth). Also, it's worth noting that each day a QB has struggled, it's been vs the 1st team defense.

This is really going to come down to gameday performance. 7 on 7s are one thing, but what happens when the pads are on and the hits are real is what matters.

Right now, the only reason the media is "keeping score" is to get readers to click those articles. And on any given day, one article will say one thing, someone else will say something different. But none of it really matters. What's going to matter is the practice and game vs the Vikings. That, IMO, will dictate the tone of preseason.

Also this: https://twitter.com/ZacStevensDNVR/s...18341575962625

[kehlis]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Albright (who is right a lot more than he is wrong) is unfortunately predicting Teddy. And FWIW, he thinks it should be Lock but that the choice will be TB.

[studbucket]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Albright (who is right a lot more than he is wrong) is unfortunately predicting Teddy. And FWIW, he thinks it should be Lock but that the choice will be TB.

I mean, if Lock is neck and neck with Bridgewater, is it really unfortunate? If he is what we were hoping he could be, he should easily win this competition. As it is, I'm most disappointed by the fact that we have a top-class defense and very solid offensive players...and we can barely get a competent QB.


MHR had a long article and most of the writers predicted Bridgewater as well: https://www.milehighreport.com/2021/...dy-bridgewater

[kehlis]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I mean, if Lock is neck and neck with Bridgewater, is it really unfortunate? If he is what we were hoping he could be, he should easily win this competition. As it is, I'm most disappointed by the fact that we have a top-class defense and very solid offensive players...and we can barely get a competent QB.


MHR had a long article and most of the writers predicted Bridgewater as well: https://www.milehighreport.com/2021/...dy-bridgewater

Unfortunate wasn't probably the best word choice.

Teddy is the safe pick, I think we all agree this team's strength is the defense and the key on offense is longer drives than what we've seen and less turnovers.

I believe the team can be successful with either. Teddy brings a new sense of leadership to the offensive huddle the team hasn't seen in years. There are a lot of pluses so I don't want it to seem like I'm down on him or the decision.


My frustration with the decision comes on two levels.

Personally, I will take the obvious pluses and minus of Drew over the same factors of Teddy.

We know TB is the safe pick, conservative, makes really smart decisions, and can be what this team needs to keep the defense off the field.

Drew does take more risks and can absolutely be more reckless. That can also lead to big plays which is something this team will need if they want to win the AFC West again anytime soon.



Most of my frustration is 100% selfish though, I will admit that. I grew up watch Elway but was too young to remember his early years. All i've wanted for awhile is to be able to watch a Broncos team with a QB they drafted take them through to the end of his career. (Living in Pittsburgh I've been here for about all of Ben's career and am envious of the lack of offseason talk about who the QB will be every year).

I also think Drew got a really raw deal. (Again though, admittedly very subjective).

I felt like it was his job to lose and I didn't see him do anything this offseason to lose it.

[Hammerhunker]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Studbucket, my sentiments exactly on all accounts. I am hoping for the best and Teddy Two-Gloves is better that Kyle Orton, lol.

This franchise must be destined to never draft a QB that will lead them to a championship.

[Instant C1a55ic]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Everyone says Drew has the higher ceiling, so why not see if he will get there? Give him 4-6 games as a leash to see if he takes that 3rd year jump?

Is this Fangio saying I wanna keep my job over developing a player? Or is it Patton throwing his weight around since he brought Teddy in, and has a history with him?

I wanna see what year 3 brings for Drew. If Teddy takes us to the playoffs, then what? Keep Teddy, and trade Lock? Keep them both?

Sent from my SM-F916U using Operation Sports mobile app

[kehlis]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

The Broncos gave Paxton Lynch more of a chance to be the guy than they gave Drew Lock…