ESPN NHL 2K5 (Xbox) 2018-19 Roster Development Thread

[WWEDX2007]

Re: ESPN NHL 2K5 (Xbox) 2018-19 Roster Development Thread

You can all test this yourself, but if I recall, NHL 2K5 didn't really seem to recognize the edits via the editor all that well. I would do a test/dummy roster and make 2 teams with extreme differences to see if it really matters.

So far, most of my work has been within the game itself.

After testing, here is what works and doesn't work in the editor:

Works - Jersey numbers, captaincies
Doesn't Work - Facial hair, hair color, ages, attributes, overalls.

[WWEDX2007]

Re: ESPN NHL 2K5 (Xbox) 2018-19 Roster Development Thread

Interesting twist, ESPN NHL 2K5 Xbox has the same issue as the NHL 2K6 360 rosters by austrianredwing:

There are no dark jerseys in the game, however, Vegas will still be in the rosters. because I've chosen a purple scheme. since purple is the closest thing there is to gray.

[tinpanalley]

Re: ESPN NHL 2K5 (Xbox) 2017-18 Roster Development Thread

Interesting twist, ESPN NFL 2K5 Xbox has the same issue as the NHL 2K6 360 rosters by austrianredwing:

There are no dark jerseys in the game, however, Vegas will still be in the rosters. because I've chosen a purple scheme. since purple is the closest thing there is to gray.

You meant NHL, right? Or have you branched out and decided to do an NFL update too [emoji23]
I was looking at the create a team function, (would love that level of detail in contemporary games by the way). Personally I think that gold/yellow looks fine for Vegas but obviously choose what you like best. [emoji106]

[WWEDX2007]

Re: ESPN NHL 2K5 (Xbox) 2018-19 Roster Development Thread

You meant NHL, right? Or have you branched out and decided to do an NFL update too [emoji23]
I was looking at the create a team function, (would love that level of detail in contemporary games by the way). Personally I think that gold/yellow looks fine for Vegas but obviously choose what you like best. [emoji106]

Typo, although NFL 2K5 is fantastic too. no need for me to make an update for that because they've got their bases covered.

I'll look into Gold, although I wasn't satisfied with stripe combinations.

[tinpanalley]

Re: ESPN NHL 2K5 (Xbox) 2017-18 Roster Development Thread

Typo, although NFL 2K5 is fantastic too. no need for me to make an update for that because they've got their bases covered.

I'll look into Gold, although I wasn't satisfied with stripe combinations.

Like I said, do your thing.
And yeah NFL is incredible. Half way through my season with the Giants. Yes, THOSE Giants. When you're a fan you're a fan, in sickness and in health. [emoji4]

[WWEDX2007]

Re: ESPN NHL 2K5 (Xbox) 2018-19 Roster Development Thread

I've made a discovery regarding attribute editing in FlyingFinn's ESPN NHL 2K5 Editor.

As it turns out, editing them DOES work. but there's a trick to it: it only recognizes your stat edits if the OVERALL remains completely untouched, the overall slider essentially negates any attribute edits you may have made.

Which means, say you make all stats 15, that's fine. but the overall MUST remain the same as it was before you edited it, it works how Snowdrift's NHL 2K8 editor used to work: you must go in-game, edit the skater and re-save them to update to whatever overall the total value of the attribute edits you may have made.

I knew that FlyingFinn would never put anything into his editors that wouldn't work, especially something as important as attribute editing. it bugged me this morning and that's when I figured this all out through testing.

As a bonus, the in-game attribute limit of 99 actually isn't the actual limit, the real limit is 125. As a test I just gave Ilya Kovalchuk all 125 stats and the game actually recognized it! it upped his overall from 92 to 99. Sadly no breaking the overall limit...

Also, editing players' ages works as well. the only reason I said it didn't before was because I was trying to make retired players' beyond the age of 45. So the in-game minimum of age 16 and maximum of age 45 are the actual limits via the editor as well.

Of course, this completely changes the way my rosters will be developed going forward.

Global attribute edits also work as they don't change the overall, I've zeroed out Atlanta's players using the editor, and I also zeroed out the entire free agents list. I went through roughly half of free agents this morning tossing retired players to the bottom and leaving players who are currently free agents intact. this is certainly easier than having to go through everyone like NHL 2K10 PS2.

[snowdrift]

Re: ESPN NHL 2K5 (Xbox) 2017-18 Roster Development Thread

As it turns out, editing them DOES work...

I was going to ask you about this because it didn't make any sense to me either. This is a great discovery, but did you test to make sure that the edits actually affect the players? I mean, if you take a player with a default 99 speed and acceleration and zero them out via the editor, does it actually affect their skating? There were a couple of situations in developing the 2K8 editor where editing a value would cause the "right" value to be displayed in the game's menus, but actually the game acted like nothing happened.

It works how Snowdrift's NHL 2K8 editor used to work...

And still works. When you edit a player, the new overall is only an approximation, so it's still a good practice to update it manually, unless you're importing a roster where the overalls are already correct.

As a bonus, the in-game attribute limit of 99 actually isn't the actual limit, the real limit is 125.

That's actually a "feature" in 2K8's Franchise mode, where the Opportunity Knocks menu will temporarily boost a player's stats for a couple of games... and they can go beyond 99.

But I wonder, does it actually make a difference? I mean, did they actually program 2K5 to respond differently to attributes beyond 99? Given how patched-up some of the programming in these games feels, I wouldn't be surprised if it had an effect for some attributes and not for others.

[tinpanalley]

Re: ESPN NHL 2K5 (Xbox) 2017-18 Roster Development Thread

Just a couple of observations, knowing far less than either of you. I'm really only a glorified tester.

As a bonus, the in-game attribute limit of 99 actually isn't the actual limit, the real limit is 125. As a test I just gave Ilya Kovalchuk all 125 stats and the game actually recognized it! it upped his overall from 92 to 99. Sadly no breaking the overall limit...

Interesting... I could see the boosts thing that snowdrift mentioned being related to that but could it also be that that was done intentionally as a way of offering further refinement to the dev team in ratings, making individual characteristics respond to the overall less directly? Because that effectively gives you a range within each "overall" click.

...But I wonder, does it actually make a difference? I mean, did they actually program 2K5 to respond differently to attributes beyond 99? Given how patched-up some of the programming in these games feels, I wouldn't be surprised if it had an effect for some attributes and not for others.

From the little I know about how games are developed knowing people who work at different studios, I don't think it's reasonable to expect any one dev team to spend the entire production calendar (which really only equates to about 10 months in sports games) to making such detailed levels of refinement but I'd make an exception to the argument for the 2K ESPN series of games, because I have never seen (or at least, rarely) the level of responsiveness in slider and ratings tweaks in other games as those games had. THey also had immense financial support at the time because ESPN really wanted to brand a lot of things in that era and games was high on their list of spaces to try and live in. Maybe in today's FIFA you see similar quality of sliders and ratings changes. I think it spoiled me for years because I kept demanding from games the responsiveness to tweaks that those games had and even further on into the NHL, MLB 2K, and NCAA Basketball series'. I don't know anything about the NBA series except that I've never heard anyone complain about non-responsive sliders.

[snowdrift]

Re: ESPN NHL 2K5 (Xbox) 2017-18 Roster Development Thread

...it also be that that was done intentionally as a way of offering further refinement to the dev team in ratings, making individual characteristics respond to the overall less directly?

I know you weren't talking to me but I don't really get what you mean here. I think it's easy to explain why the ratings go beyond 99, though. It's just a function of how memory works. The number 99 spans 7 bits in binary: 1100011. Since 7 bits of space are reserved per attribute, nothing stops you from using them all and going up to 127 (1111111). No way the developers could prevent this, especially if you are forcing it through with an editor. That doesn't mean they actually programmed the game to handle values that high, though.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect any one dev team to spend the entire production calendar (which really only equates to about 10 months in sports games) to making such detailed levels of refinement

Totally agree, and I wasn't criticizing the developers. I admire what they managed to do in a single year. My point was that they left enough bugs in these games as it is, like Franchise mode freezes, etc. So I doubt they had time to spend coding these values above 99 that were never meant to be used.

Having said that, depending on how the logic of each attribute is coded, some may still have an effect if they're above 99. For example, if the logic is hard-coded, there won't be any effect. But if the logic is just a formula (like the speed attribute is multiplied by some number to get a miles-per-hour value or something), then the values above 99 would work, as long as they didn't internally check the values and cap them at 99.

[WWEDX2007]

Re: ESPN NHL 2K5 (Xbox) 2018-19 Roster Development Thread

What normally takes me multiple hours was done in about 45 minutes today, modifying equipment works so I was able to do that on my computer (didn't take long) I then took a base player and copied his attributes to all players which gave me a template to modify. which reduced the amount of time even more because it was close to what their attributes usually are.

[tinpanalley]

Re: ESPN NHL 2K5 (Xbox) 2017-18 Roster Development Thread

What normally takes me multiple hours was done in about 45 minutes today, modifying equipment works so I was able to do that on my computer (didn't take long) I then took a base player and copied his attributes to all players which gave me a template to modify. which reduced the amount of time even more because it was close to what their attributes usually are.

I love it!! Smart roster creation! Clever technique.

[tinpanalley]

Re: ESPN NHL 2K5 (Xbox) 2017-18 Roster Development Thread

I know you weren't talking to me but I don't really get what you mean here

Never mind, I didn't express myself properly but I don't think what I was suggesting is valid anyway.

Totally agree, and I wasn't criticizing the developers.

This is one of those things that happens in forums where a response sounds like I was suggesting you were saying something you weren't. I wasn't saying that, it was just an observation. All good.

[WWEDX2007]

Re: ESPN NHL 2K5 (Xbox) 2018-19 Roster Development Thread

I'm gonna run into an issue where there's gonna be no more players with blank menufaces, this could result in me having to use no name players and use their closest faces, like molifox/austrianredwing's NHL 2K10 360 rosters. I'm gonna try to make sure this isn't the case, but it looks like it might become an issue by 8-10 teams finished. it's a shame because the All-Time and Historic teams have players I could use, but the game and Finn's editor won't let me.

This is a great discovery, but did you test to make sure that the edits actually affect the players? I mean, if you take a player with a default 99 speed and acceleration and zero them out via the editor, does it actually affect their skating? There were a couple of situations in developing the 2K8 editor where editing a value would cause the "right" value to be displayed in the game's menus, but actually the game acted like nothing happened.

Can confirm attribute edits made via the editor make a difference, just zeroed out all of the retired players on Calgary in preparation of updating them, played a test game and every player skated like they were 100 years old.

[tinpanalley]

Re: ESPN NHL 2K5 (Xbox) 2017-18 Roster Development Thread

I'm gonna run into an issue where there's gonna be no more players with blank menufaces...
Can confirm attribute edits made via the editor make a difference, just zeroed out all of the retired players on Calgary in preparation of updating them, played a test game and every player skated like they were 100 years old.

Not the end of the world for the faces. I know, not ideal, trust me I understand, but I've been playing a playoff in 2K10 with the austrianredwing update of molifox's roster and yeah, the occasional face comes up that I know belongs to someone else, but I'm too into the game to care or even notice half the time.
Glad to hear about the attributes. Would've been funny to see a video of those 0-rated players playing.

[WWEDX2007]

Re: ESPN NHL 2K5 (Xbox) 2018-19 Roster Development Thread

Not the end of the world for the faces. I know, not ideal, trust me I understand, but I've been playing a playoff in 2K10 with the austrianredwing update of molifox's roster and yeah, the occasional face comes up that I know belongs to someone else, but I'm too into the game to care or even notice half the time.
Glad to hear about the attributes. Would've been funny to see a video of those 0-rated players playing.

It will only be for skaters, as I'm pretty sure there's enough blank faces for goalies.

Either way, I'm hell bent on finishing this.