OMG ,WHAT A JOKE!!!

[DivotMaker]

Re: OMG ,WHAT A JOKE!!!

They have allowed us to customise our golfer to play at as hard or easy a level as we want (well done, TW devs); but they haven't allowed us to customise the difficulty level of the tournament scores (DUMB play, TW devs). The dilemma you mention could have been avoided had the devs just done that. The TW devs are trying to please two kinds of user - those who want realism and those who want an arcade experience - and the only way to do that in one game is to give plenty of choice.

Have you seen what they are doing for Live Tournaments? They are actively seeking and implementing user feedback at the EA Tiger forums....If you want to make any sort of impact, post your comments there so that TibMikeD (one of the 360/PS3 Producers) can discuss the options and if an idea is doable, they can give it a try from the server side. I don't know if they can implement user created tournaments per se, but they are accomodating and considering numerous ideas and requests....the first "one try only" Tournament begins today and it was not even a part of the final game code at one point....

[baa7]

Re: OMG ,WHAT A JOKE!!!

Does anyone know if the tourney AI scores reflect the course difficulty/conditions?

That's a great question. TW 08 on the PC has that. The better the conditions, the lower the final scores.

[MrArlingtonBeach]

Re: OMG ,WHAT A JOKE!!!

Ok...so I finished the Twin Cities Tournament last night. As I mentioned previously, I started off the tourney with a first-round -9 playing on Pro difficulty with spin and power boost OFF (I had the putting grid and preview on because I was still getting the hang of putting down...I will turn them off from now on). I also tuned my clubs follwing the first round, so their sweet spots are around 40% now (still using Intermediate ones).

In the second round, I finished at -14 and was passed by Steve Fleisch (sp?), who shot a second-round 62 to finish the day at -15. This was the first instance I've seen of potential "rubberbanding" that has been discussed.

The thrid round carried on pretty normal, but Tiger made a push and moved into a second-place tie with me at -21. Fleisch remained a few shots ahead.

The final round saw Fleisch fall off and out of the top spot, Tiger hang with me until the very end, and me claiming the title at -24 under. Woods was second at -22.

Again, this was on the 360 in Pro difficulty with power boost and spin OFF. I will be turing off the putting aids for the next tourney.

[djep]

Re: OMG ,WHAT A JOKE!!!

The difficulty in a good golf sim comes not from some otherworldly AI scores but from the actual gameplay, the shot-making. For those of us who like to cap our golfer's skills for a realistic experience this game is FUBAR'd for tournament style play. This game is for the guys who shoot those ridiculous scores in those online daily tournaments.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: OMG ,WHAT A JOKE!!!

If that's what in fact is happening, then that's bad. But again, several people are saying CPU winning scores are more in the -13 to -27 range. That sounds like a nice challenge to me.

It sounds like maybe the computer scores adjust to the users score. If you shoot -20, they will shoot -30. If you shoot par, they will shoot -5 or something.

My assumption at least from what I am reading is that people who jack up their players and shoot superhuman scores and those that are keeping their own player a little more realsitic are swwing more realistic scoring.

If this is the case, I see what EA was trying to do, but they still need to offer sliders to adjust this. If someone wants to develop their player so much they can destroy the field by shooting in the 40's or 50's each round, then let them. If another player wants to keep things realistic and shoot close to par on a tough course and try and keep pace with the field then they should be able to as well.

The fact that one group has to adjust for a game made for the others just seems lazy on EA's part.

It seems it would be common sense for EA to offer two AI scoring options in the career mode.

-Realistic: which would offer close to realistic scores for a given course. Regardless if you shoot a 10 over or a 30 under the computer is going to shoot what it is going to shoot. The scores on the leaderboard are mutually exclusive of your player

-Competitive: which would keep tournaments competitive by having the scores adapt to your scoring, your handicap or maybe just your ratings. If you are averaging -48, the computer will adjust it's score to still make the tournaments stay tough. You will see leaders in the -40's or -50's. However if you are averaging +10. The scores would again adapt and you may see the leader at +5 or something.

I can honestly see people wanting to play it both ways. I know if I play a great round of tough golf, I want to be rewarded properly for it. However, if my player becomes too good and I dominate, it's no fun to walk away with every tournament without having any pressure shots.

[baa7]

Re: OMG ,WHAT A JOKE!!!

It sounds like maybe the computer scores adjust to the users score. If you shoot -20, they will shoot -30. If you shoot par, they will shoot -5 or something.

Well, MrArlington just posted he won with a -24, and while Tiger stayed close the final round, he finished -22, so...

[MrArlingtonBeach]

Re: OMG ,WHAT A JOKE!!!

I'm not sure if the AI playing at the user's level is the case in all situations.

In the first tourney, I played on Tour Pro with no putting aids and shot a +30 total score. Meanwhile, the winning score was from Tiger and was in the -20 range.

I have yet to see a score lower than -28 in any of the tourneys I have played. It seems as though the AI scores will fall somewhere around -20 pretty consistently.

I want to get to the U.S. Open and see if the tough conditions will also play a factor. Also, I am going to play the next tourney with no putting aids to give me more of a challenge and to see if the AI scores will be lower if mine are lower, too.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: OMG ,WHAT A JOKE!!!

Well, MrArlington just posted he won with a -24, and while Tiger stayed close the final round, he finished -22, so...

Could be random, could be pre-programmed AI.

You really need a ton of samples in which people play with different rated players and shoot different scores and then see if the scores of the field seems to somewhat follow the users score, his handicap or his his players ratings or something.

If the logic does exist, it doesn't necessarrily have to be based on what you actually shoot; maybe just a potential score based on your players ratings or maybe your players average score.

Also, if it is based on the user score in that tournament, you should be able to put up a normal, decent round and then intentionally follow it with a horrible round to see if the AI reacts the same. If you shoot a -10 on day 1 and the leader is at -12 and then the next day shoot a +10 to finish at par and the leader is now at +1 then that seems pretty obvious the game is trying to keep things close.

Even with all that, it could be capped. The scoring may never get worse than a certain number, but could get better if the user blows away the field.

[OpusX910]

Re: OMG ,WHAT A JOKE!!!

EA's NHL series is terrible as far as over-the-top, superhuman AI on the highest difficulty levels. The worst of any sports video game I've ever played. Bad comparison.

How so? The AI isnt terrible by far, could use some polishing for sure, but it definitely has the best AI of all sports games EA offers. Yeah, it plays more like college hockey as the neutral zone play isnt very competitive, but from what ive read, they're working on that this year.

[baa7]

Re: OMG ,WHAT A JOKE!!!

I have yet to see a score lower than -28 in any of the tourneys I have played. It seems as though the AI scores will fall somewhere around -20 pretty consistently.

Which is pretty much what others like Onlooker are seeing.

[baa7]

Re: OMG ,WHAT A JOKE!!!

Could be random, could be pre-programmed AI.

Or it could be the OP ("wtf?!?!?!?!?!?!?") set the difficulty on Amateur so that he ("OMG ,WHAT A JOKE!!!") could win, win, win! You know how it goes with some gamers: they ("!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????") get their new toy, and when the toy turns out to be tougher than they ("EA IS SOOOO AWFUL!!!!!!!!") thought it would be, they ("what a waste of effort by EA.....o wait there wasnt any effort") type a crazy rant up on some discussion forum and then disappear. And the rest of us end up looking completely stupid, endlessly discussing and speculating on the thread topic as if it actually has some validity.

[bigal093]

Re: OMG ,WHAT A JOKE!!!

Okay, i just want to cover a few things here

1) I was NOT playing on beginner for all you f*gs who are saying i was....i was on pro.....i then bumped it up to tour pro to see the difference and instead of shooting -10 a day and -40 for tourney, they shot about-8 for the day and shot about -30....now that is unrealistic everbody DO NOT give me this..."ohh its a nice challenge". IT ISNT......for this guy who is talking NHL, how would you like games to be like 21-19. that is the kind of thing we are talking about.

2) secondly, a slider for human drive accuracy, iron accuracy, etc...all the same as the old rating system in sliders. That would be great.....then add one for cpu all of that. This would fix the scoring issue for sure.

3) Tiger Woods 08- i was playing it earlier and guess what....all in all, an almost perfect gameplay and scoring exp....i was having a lot of difficulty hitting the fairways(something you can always do in 10)....the CPU scores needed toned down a little bit if anything but would be fine the same......so that was pretty good human and cpu

4)Finally, the BIGGEST POINT- None of this stuff i mentioned earlier matters bc if you dont shoot -10 per round, you attributes will go WAY DOWN. I broke the record for GIR and FIR and my power and accuracy went down(power shouldnt have anything to do with FIR but it seems they merged two attributes and thats fine, but i dropped in FIR and went up in distance and went down in power). If we shot realistically, we'd be killed. I could break every course record, lose the tourney and go down in attributes. NOW ALL OF YOU THAT ARE SAYING ITS A CHALLENGE....HOW CAN YOU JUSTIFY THAT BEING FAIR?????HOW!!!!!!!
bottom line, fix the scores, and you'll be an awful golfer which will make you go down more and more....worse scores.

5) whoever brought it up.....EA SPORTS HAS YET TO MAKE ONE GOOD GAME. but we all are forced to buy them bc they buy out all of the licenses and its them or nothing.....NHL is the closest to a good game, but the AI is way off on that too...EA GAMES on the other hand, makes a lot of good games, mainly bc realism isnt a huge deal in those games.....sports sims though it is.........EA SPORTS IS HANDS DOWN THE WORST SPORTS GAME COMPANY....2k is pretty sucky, but even they dont screw up this consistently........IT IS TO THE POINT WHERE IF I BUY AN EA SPORTS GAME I KNOW, not just think, I KNOW THERE WILL BE A GAMEKILLER IN IT.......

plz everybody comment this, because i want to hear what the supporters of this have to say, and who else is going to make fun of me because im right and they know it!

[bigal093]

Re: OMG ,WHAT A JOKE!!!

Or it could be the OP ("wtf?!?!?!?!?!?!?") set the difficulty on Amateur so that he ("OMG ,WHAT A JOKE!!!") could win, win, win! You know how it goes with some gamers: they ("!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????") get their new toy, and when the toy turns out to be tougher than they ("EA IS SOOOO AWFUL!!!!!!!!") thought it would be, they ("what a waste of effort by EA.....o wait there wasnt any effort") type a crazy rant up on some discussion forum and then disappear. And the rest of us end up looking completely stupid, endlessly discussing and speculating on the thread topic as if it actually has some validity.

AND ANOTHER THING, I LOST THAT TOURNEY SHOOTING LIKE A -25 UNDER WHICH IS STILL OFF...........THE WINNER SHOT -10 PER ROUND ON PRO..........THEN -8 ON TOUR PRO.......ITS PRETTY SIMPLE AND YOU NEED TO STOP SAYING THAT I WAS PLAYING ON BEGINNER YOU DUMBA$$!!!!!

[baa7]

Re: OMG ,WHAT A JOKE!!!

[EA's]NHL... the AI is way off on that too

Hey, you and I agree on something.

[baa7]

Re: OMG ,WHAT A JOKE!!!

YOU NEED TO STOP SAYING THAT I WAS PLAYING ON BEGINNER YOU DUMBA$$!!!!!

I said Amateur in my last post. So does that make you the, uh, you know what?

And if you shot -30 two days after getting the game, you certainly weren't playing on Tour level with the Precision putting meter off and your clubs' sweetspot tuned down to 20 -- you know, the way the game is meant to be played if you're looking for an actual challenge. So it really doesn't matter how you want to defend or twist this. You were playing on an easier level, looking to beatup on the CPU so you could win, win, win. And who knows? Maybe they programmed scoring AI in the game to counteract taking an easier approach to playing the game.