Xbox One

[trobinson97]

Re: Xbox One

It's absolutely ridiculous for you to criticize people for believing something that they were told by Microsoft themselves. None of this has even been confirmed either way.

You should probably be directing those ridiculous comments towards Microsoft, not me. If you think they told you that then they're the ones who are ridiculous for lying to you. I don't remember Microsoft saying specifically to anyone that they'd be letting people share their digital game library with 10 people with no restrictions. I saw a lot of people assume that though.

It's all good though, I apologize to you and anyone else I might have offended.

[Dispatch]

Re: Xbox One

Just wanted to provide a follow up. This was confirmed to be legit. Family Sharing for the Xbone was the same as PS3's one hour game demos and was further restricted to games that your family already owned.

This is not a legit source, I'm sorry but I just can't take it seriously. It's 2:30 in the morning and that "source" is complete garbage by now. I click on it and it shows nothing, directs me to nothing, and is why the internet sucks sometimes. I don't care who it is posting it but unless its from news.xbox.com, ign.com, or some other legitimate source I don't believe it. Anyone can post anything and have it posted on a site. Here is a tweet with a legitimate source. Someone with a name on his line backing up the fact that he heard differently.

Now I know this isn't fact but it offers more then some random forum post or pastebin article. DRM is gone and so is the family sharing. Lets enjoy the fact that consumers won this round and move on. The Xbox One will be a good machine and so will the PS4. There is a lot of information out and the next few months will be very exciting. Lets just try to enjoy it and not make it about Sony vs Microsoft vs the consumer. They all want your money. Just try to choose the console that is right for you personally.

[Trapper700]

Re: Xbox One

This is not a legit source, I'm sorry but I just can't take it seriously. It's 2:30 in the morning and that "source" is complete garbage by now. I click on it and it shows nothing, directs me to nothing, and is why the internet sucks sometimes. I don't care who it is posting it but unless its from news.xbox.com, ign.com, or some other legitimate source I don't believe it. Anyone can post anything and have it posted on a site. Here is a tweet with a legitimate source. Someone with a name on his line backing up the fact that he heard differently.

Now I know this isn't fact but it offers more then some random forum post or pastebin article. DRM is gone and so is the family sharing. Lets enjoy the fact that consumers won this round and move on. The Xbox One will be a good machine and so will the PS4. There is a lot of information out and the next few months will be very exciting. Lets just try to enjoy it and not make it about Sony vs Microsoft vs the consumer. They all want your money. Just try to choose the console that is right for you personally.

If you want to believe that, that's fine. I've already discussed earlier in this thread why Polygon and Arthur Gies shouldn't always be considered a reliable or unbiased source and why cboat on NeoGAF has proven time and time again that he/she is reliable. I don't know what exactly makes a tweet, of all things, by a known biased and confrontational personality (who has also had numerous instances of throwing b*tch fits on twitter) "more legitimate" than someone whose insider leaks have actually been proven on multiple occasions to be trustworthy, despite the fact that it's from another forum (one that happens to be somewhat influential in gaming - even developers and "game journalists" have come to see its impact).

There was also that time that Gies took to twitter with his stance on SimCity and he hasn't even admitted to making a mistake in posting his Sim City review before testing it in real-world conditions. He tweeted "if you don't work at maxis and insist simcity could be updated to be offline, you literally don't know what you're talking about" then when John Walker of Rock Paper Shotgun broke a story saying that EA's servers for SimCity and its "cloud" functionality don't do anything, Gies attempted to discredit it. And while the whole (Polygon writer) Brian Crecente "lie"/plagiarism thing happened regarding the RPS article, Gies continued his twitter campaign discrediting all future critique of videogames because [and I'm paraphrasing] you should make a SimCity before you say mean things about one, citing his "I'm a games journalist" card. Which is obviously a ridiculous stance for someone who plays and writes about/reviews games.



Basically, if it was just a choice on who to believe between Gies and a random anonymous pastebin, it would be a tossup. But I'd argue that cboat's name and reputation regarding stuff like this is quite a bit more valuable than either and a lot of people feel the same way.

Anyways, to change the subject...

The Kinect 2 wouldn't creep me out as much if it wasn't for all the weird biometric sh*t it has. I get the feeling its going to be used for snapshotting marketing data by seeing if your cardiac rate went up or if your crotch got hotter when some fast food, doritos or mountain dew ads came on. I'm slightly less concerned about government spying only because the sh*tstorm that would ensue once it leaked would be insane. I'm also not really sure how recording my pulse helps gaming out in a way I want to deal with at all either.

Edit:
I apologize for the long rant-y post, but seeing Arthur Gies' twitter being mentioned as a "legitimate source" made me snap.

Edit2:
If you're looking for another "reliable" source, here's an article about it from The Verge. It also cites what was said by the "Microsoft engineer" on pastebin, but there's also this little snippet:
"It's impossible to verify that these are the words of an Xbox engineer, but sources familiar with Microsoft's Xbox plans have revealed to The Verge that the company was discussing the idea of limiting each Family Sharing session to one hour and that game progress would be saved so you could play through the hourly caps or purchase the full game to continue uninterrupted."

[AirLobo23]

Re: Xbox One

You should probably be directing those ridiculous comments towards Microsoft, not me. If you think they told you that then they're the ones who are ridiculous for lying to you. I don't remember Microsoft saying specifically to anyone that they'd be letting people share their digital game library with 10 people with no restrictions. I saw a lot of people assume that though.

It's all good though, I apologize to you and anyone else I might have offended.

No one is lying to anyone and you don't owe my an apology. You're right, Microsoft didn't explain how this would work in detail, but listening to people like Major Nelson in interviews and reading certain articles you were led to believe that you could share your entire game library. No one ever mentioned timed demos. I understand that it's easy for you to criticize now after the fact, but for me it would have more acceptable to hear the criticism from you, if you shared your crystal ball of information PRIOR to a few rumors stating this isn't how it will work. You're a staunch PS4 supporter so i understand why you criticize and use sarcasm. This is what it is right now, PS4 people vs XONE people, unfortunately objectivity and level headedness at times is thrown to the wayside.

[Goffs]

Re: Xbox One

They can't lower the price on digital games because they are (along with all game companies) in bed with big retail.

Even if they go 100% digital, games will not get cheaper because the budgets on games just keep going up and up for AAA games. I'm honestly surprised (and pleased) that game prices are staying the same this gen.

If M$ has a site like a GMG where they have vouchers so I don't have to buy the game full price then I'm all for it going digital....

[ubernoob]

If M$ has a site like a GMG where they have vouchers so I don't have to buy the game full price then I'm all for it going digital....

They won't though, because they (MS and Sony) won't allow competition for their marketplaces, because why would they? Steam/GMG/GoG/GameFly/GS/Amazon/etc. all work out how they do because they are competing with each other in an open ecosystem.

Why would anyone agree to sell their game for less even when that money still has to go through MS/Sony. You're still buying from the same exact marketplace so the money still has to go through MS/Sony who is still literally the only company allowed to dictate the prices on their marketplace games at any point in time.

Going on the history of the companies (MS full history, Sony PS3 price debacle) what makes you think any of those savings would be passed on to the consumer?

[MrSerendipity]

Re: Xbox One

No one is lying to anyone and you don't owe my an apology. You're right, Microsoft didn't explain how this would work in detail, but listening to people like Major Nelson in interviews and reading certain articles you were led to believe that you could share your entire game library. No one ever mentioned timed demos. I understand that it's easy for you to criticize now after the fact, but for me it would have more acceptable to hear the criticism from you, if you shared your crystal ball of information PRIOR to a few rumors stating this isn't how it will work. You're a staunch PS4 supporter so i understand why you criticize and use sarcasm. This is what it is right now, PS4 people vs XONE people, unfortunately objectivity and level headedness at times is thrown to the wayside.

There were plenty of us in this thread and in the PS4 thread who were telling "X1 People", like yourself, that you needed to hold off on the game library assumptions. But many of you, including you if I recall correctly, were acting like it was a done deal and that the Family Share Plan was why the X1 was better than the PS4. So please don't act like it's us that are lacking objectivity and levelheadedness. I can't even begin to tell you how many of us were saying that the Family Share Plan isn't what it was being made out to be. And the only reason that MS didn't elaborate on it when it was first announced was because it was the ONLY feature that was actually receiving a fair amount of praise during a time where MS was being criticized by even it's most loyal of supporters. I'm not here to argue which system is better because I could care less. If you'd rather own an X1, good for you. I hope you enjoy it. But don't claim that the poster you quoted and that many of us others who made a PS4 purchase are lacking objectivity and levelheadedness simply because we don't agree with you.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Bingo! There was a reason MSFT did not give full details.

[Simp]

Re: Xbox One

Did MS think that a nice looking demo of Ryse at E3 would make everyone look past all their anti-consumer BS? Who was making these decisions? It appears their strategy was to layer a bunch of awfulness in there with no benefits to counter-weigh.

I suppose they were betting Sony would have some of the same policies in place. Well they lost that bet didn't they. Now it's just mind boggling how bad they have looked the past few weeks.

At this stage in the game the fan base should be excited but they have created nothing but hostility and confusion with their horrible decisions. I can honestly say I cannot remember seeing a miscalculation like this in any product launch EVER.

[trobinson97]

Re: Xbox One

No one is lying to anyone and you don't owe my an apology. You're right, Microsoft didn't explain how this would work in detail, but listening to people like Major Nelson in interviews and reading certain articles you were led to believe that you could share your entire game library. No one ever mentioned timed demos. I understand that it's easy for you to criticize now after the fact, but for me it would have more acceptable to hear the criticism from you, if you shared your crystal ball of information PRIOR to a few rumors stating this isn't how it will work. You're a staunch PS4 supporter so i understand why you criticize and use sarcasm. This is what it is right now, PS4 people vs XONE people, unfortunately objectivity and level headedness at times is thrown to the wayside.

Since you say this is now a "PS4 people vs XONE people" that implies that you're one of the "XONE" people yes? Which would also imply you have thrown levelheadedness and objectivity to the wayside as well I imagine. That's on you.

Can you kindly explain to me how I am a staunch PS4 supporter when I am not getting either console any time soon though? I have to inform you that I am not the PS4 person that you think I am and I am not against you or these "XONE" guys.

There was no crystal ball needed to know that MS was not going to let people share games unlimited like that(although their definitely were people saying that people were getting ahead of themselves about it, which I showed my agreement with by liking their posts). If they were implementing something like that you can believe they would have talked that up like nothing you've ever seen because that would have been a major major selling point amidst all the negative talk of restrictions. Instead, you got vague comments about it which led to people coming up with their own assumptions and then starting to believe those assumptions as if they were fact. Like I said, I couldn't believe that there were people here that naive but apparently I was very wrong.

I apologized for the sucker born every minute comment if it caused any offense because while it may be "true", it wasn't necessary. I didn't throw that shoe at any one individual in particular but I did leave it out there for anyone who thought it might fit to wear.

[AirLobo23]

Re: Xbox One

There were plenty of us in this thread and in the PS4 thread who were telling "X1 People", like yourself, that you needed to hold off on the game library assumptions. But many of you, including you if I recall correctly, were acting like it was a done deal and that the Family Share Plan was why the X1 was better than the PS4. So please don't act like it's us that are lacking objectivity and levelheadedness. I can't even begin to tell you how many of us were saying that the Family Share Plan isn't what it was being made out to be. And the only reason that MS didn't elaborate on it when it was first announced was because it was the ONLY feature that was actually receiving a fair amount of praise during a time where MS was being criticized by even it's most loyal of supporters. I'm not here to argue which system is better because I could care less. If you'd rather own an X1, good for you. I hope you enjoy it. But don't claim that the poster you quoted and that many of us others who made a PS4 purchase are lacking objectivity and levelheadedness simply because we don't agree with you.

X1 and PS4 supporters BOTH lack objectivity and levelheadedness at times. Actually all the time these days. I've got both consoles preordered and want to see the both succeed. I could care less whether you or anyone else agrees with me. My beef was to the claim that we are 'suckers' for believing that we could share our library. Any bit of info can change at anytime for both consoles.

[AirLobo23]

Re: Xbox One

Since you say this is now a "PS4 people vs XONE people" that implies that you're one of the "XONE" people yes? Which would also imply you have thrown levelheadedness and objectivity to the wayside as well I imagine. That's on you.

Can you kindly explain to me how I am a staunch PS4 supporter when I am not getting either console any time soon though? I have to inform you that I am not the PS4 person that you think I am and I am not against you or these "XONE" guys.

There was no crystal ball needed to know that MS was not going to let people share games unlimited like that(although their definitely were people saying that people were getting ahead of themselves about it, which I showed my agreement with by liking their posts). If they were implementing something like that you can believe they would have talked that up like nothing you've ever seen because that would have been a major major selling point amidst all the negative talk of restrictions. Instead, you got vague comments about it which led to people coming up with their own assumptions and then starting to believe those assumptions as if they were fact. Like I said, I couldn't believe that there were people here that naive but apparently I was very wrong.

I apologized for the sucker born every minute comment if it caused any offense because while it may be "true", it wasn't necessary. I didn't throw that shoe at any one individual in particular but I did leave it out there for anyone who thought it might fit to wear.

So just out of curiosity. If the news breaks today on IGN or any other
reputable site that we could have indeed shared our game libraries with family, what does this classify you as?

[ubernoob]

Re: Xbox One

Did MS think that a nice looking demo of Ryse at E3 would make everyone look past all their anti-consumer BS? Who was making these decisions? It appears their strategy was to layer a bunch of awfulness in there with no benefits to counter-weigh.

I suppose they were betting Sony would have some of the same policies in place. Well they lost that bet didn't they. Now it's just mind boggling how bad they have looked the past few weeks.

At this stage in the game the fan base should be excited but they have created nothing but hostility and confusion with their horrible decisions. I can honestly say I cannot remember seeing a miscalculation like this in any product launch EVER.

New Coke? Windows 8? Windows Vista? Qwikster (the Netflix separation, if you don't recognize the name)? Pepsi AM/Crystal?

Obviously it was a bad decision, but to say it's the worst ever is quite hyperbolic.

So just out of curiosity. If the news breaks today on IGN or any other
reputable site that we could have indeed shared our game libraries with family, what does this classify you as?

It won't, and playing the what if game isn't really helpful to discourse but this could be fun. Think about it this way. Even if the sharing was limited to single player games, one person at a time, 10 people max. Do you think publishers would go for that?

One person would buy the game. We'll say on average there's 12-20 hours of gameplay for a person to beat the game. Also, on average (since this is where the numbers vary wildly) we'll say 2 hours of play per person. I think that number is quite low (since we are taking everyone into account) but we'll roll with it. That's 10 days to beat a game. You have multiple games out there at a time on a 10 person rotation. So every 2 weeks you get a new game for the original $60 dollars you put out. You get to play 10 full games. Each person in that group is costing developers/publishers/MS $540 dollars.

There's absolutely no benefit to implementing it the way people thought/hoped it would be implemented. Companies don't give profits away, that's a quick way to exit any industry.

[Trapper700]

I've been seeing a lot of comparisons for the XBL marketplace (and PSN) to Steam recently, but I think the comparison is a terrible one because of the differing economics between PC gaming and console gaming.

Steam has been largely successful because of the amount of sales they have and because they have pricing competition with other companies. Amazon, GOG, Greenman Gaming, Humble Bundles and retail physical copies/codes are all competitors to Steam's digital distribution.

Steam didn't start these sales because of "used games", they started them because PC Gamers have shown that they are EXTREMELY price sensitive about games (don't want to pay for multiplayer, don't want to pay for pretty much anything) and because PC Gamers could easily pirate the ever-loving f*ck out of a title if they didn't want to pay retail.

Fundamentally, why do people care about renting, reselling, trading? Because they want to pay less for games. Steam has shown that you can eliminate renting, reselling, and trading by just offering the games at a price so low that they become like a pack of gum at the supermarket check-out stand. Games as gum: You buy them, you chew them, you throw them away and never think about it again. Money well spent...because you didn't spend much money at all.

Who cares about used games or account-locking when you can buy a new version of a AAA 4-month-old title for 7 dollars, or a smaller indie game for 2 bucks? This is the bargain that PC users came to accept, but they came by it honestly because the alternative was a total PC Gaming collapse (or at least severe scaling back) due to piracy.

Consoles are more heavily controlled and less compromised. They are not nearly as widely pirated (they "can" be, but we're living in the reality-based world where it is MUCH harder and MUCH less frequent then PC). This completely changes the economics. On PC, the downward pressure on price comes from the ease of piracy. On consoles, downward pressure comes from used games, rentals, and of course falling demand over time.

Which brings us to the problem with Xbone's former plans for DRM and no used games/rentals. there is much less downward pressure. Two of the three drivers of game price reduction: gone. There could have been no used games, no rentals. So it's only natural that games would be more expensive. They will still go down in price but much slower. They would be much, MUCH easier to keep at an artificially inflated price because there were no 3rd party markets that publishers can go to. There's one centralized license server and one storefront. Pricing contracts will have already been buttoned up by Microsoft. It's really not a very good thing at all. So good thing they changed the policy.

But surface-level analysts just didn't get this. Steam = digital. Xbone/PSN = digital. Therefore Xbone/PSN = Steam, and Steam Digital Sales = Xbone/PSN Digital Sales. They're wrong, and gamers could have paid the price.

[trobinson97]

Re: Xbox One

So just out of curiosity. If the news breaks today on IGN or any other
reputable site that we could have indeed shared our game libraries with family, what does this classify you as?

Someone who isn't so naive as to believe everything MS says, especially at this point when it's so obvious that they could be saying it after the fact to save face.