PlayStation 4 Discussion

[Burns11]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

Also, a lot of people are confused about DDR5. People are saying the latency is a lot worse when the facts point to DDR5 not being used properly. Microsoft put the extra cache in as a basic operating system bank. Intel has been using this cache system since the 90s, not to this extent but it's been there. It hasn't worked well for Intel so they just started to use their extra cache as backup RAM in a sense. So, this basically means that MSFT's genius idea to counter Sony's DDR5 was pointless, from years of Intel trying and failing. If you guys really want to read why the X1 is on it's downfall spec wise and system wise, head over to CNET.

GDDR5 does have higher latency, but makes up for it through massive bandwidth. That's the trade off, but GPUs need memory bandwidth and don't care so much about latency, what's why GDDR memory was first developed. GPUs don't have problems with latency, the ram is going to operate at a much faster timings than the GPU anyway. In fact, DDR5 has come to the point where the flat out clock speeds of the ram have outweighed the inherent latency even in CPU tasks so you are starting to see GDDR5, so we are starting to see hints of GDDR5 taking over DDR3 as the enthusiast PC system ram of choice (of course, that's only until DDR4 starts popping up in a couple years, which would again see GDDR as video only memory).

So, yes, GDDR5 has higher latency, but makes up for that latency in bandwidth and clock speeds. Given the same CPU intensive task, something like video encoding or file compression, Xbone would probably eek out a win. PS4 doesn't do video encoding or compression on it's CPU though, they have a separate processor for those tasks.

[authentic]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

I don't think I can take the Xbox One seriously if people keep calling it the XBone...lol just doesn't sound right.

[Burns11]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

That's why I do it though, Xbox One is such a stupid name and at least Xbone makes me chuckle a bit.

Wait....That didn't sound right either.

[23]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

Not exactly. I played the demo at Gamestop before I paid anything.

and to add.. I didn't have the option of seeing which system was going to give me the better Mario, Zelda etc..
As I've said before I love Nintendo games and so my options are a tad limited.
Nintendo for Nintendo.. PS4/XBOX1 for my main systems.

Come on Skyboxer, Sony had a very early reveal about their console, and still has time at E3 to show it off which im sure was the plan from the beginning. As far as I can tell you're the only one going on about not seeing it yet knowing full well that the actual reveal will come at E3.

Now there is no reason to go on about it like that when you did not dismiss Nintendo's system when they purposely ignored showing the new system at E3 and made all the hoopla about the tablet only.

So in short I don't think waiting another 2 weeks is going to affect anyone's decision on buying it or not because they didn't show it by May.

[Jr.]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

That was the most informative spam message ever. Thank you, Hermg-something, for expanding my knowledge.

[authentic]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

That was the most informative spam message ever. Thank you, Hermg-something, for expanding my knowledge.

There's a reason I liked it...very interesting.

[Skyboxer]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

Come on Skyboxer, Sony had a very early reveal about their console, and still has time at E3 to show it off which im sure was the plan from the beginning. As far as I can tell you're the only one going on about not seeing it yet knowing full well that the actual reveal will come at E3.

Now there is no reason to go on about it like that when you did not dismiss Nintendo's system when they purposely ignored showing the new system at E3 and made all the hoopla about the tablet only.

So in short I don't think waiting another 2 weeks is going to affect anyone's decision on buying it or not because they didn't show it by May.

If Nintendo doesn't soon get some games out (giving them 2 months) or so I won't own even that system as the 3DS ahs been a great little system for Nintendo stuff.
My point about Nintendo is I had to get it if I wanted to play Nintendo games.. simply had no choice. They butchered the whole release and hope they learned from it.

I like what I''ve seen so far with the PS4 and some of the XBOX Boner ( lol ) but I just feel that the whole "Games first" is not accurate. Both companies know it's more than just games at this point in time. it's about the whole connected world.

2 weeks will affect me as I have no idea what $ we'll be talking about then again.. I know I want(have to.. no choice.. weak) both...

Like stated earlier in thread I'm already planning the route to grab both at launch. I just hope my "main" game Madden has next gen appeal and we see plenty of new IP's.

It's all good. I'm simply excited that the year is finally here..

[23]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

I can feel you on the 3DS especially being one who had a couple of nintendo handhelds and for pure games its just totally fun.

That said, of course this gen should be on another level than the previous consoles, but IMO M$ did not target a gaming audience whatsoever, whom were already on the fence about said rumors which turned out to be the case and in some ways worse.

E3 is the decision point for me, although im leaning Sony because of what's been presented, plus I'll be doing more PC gaming now especially since its cheaper, so Im only getting one system this time.

I think all of the arguing is giving me headaches but like I said I think this week's presentation caused a riff in the userbase M$ has and that's never a good thing to do.

Not even sure what games will be the first year anyway, most of them are never that great in the first year.

[authentic]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

I can feel you on the 3DS especially being one who had a couple of nintendo handhelds and for pure games its just totally fun.

That said, of course this gen should be on another level than the previous consoles, but IMO M$ did not target a gaming audience whatsoever, whom were already on the fence about said rumors which turned out to be the case and in some ways worse.

E3 is the decision point for me, although im leaning Sony because of what's been presented, plus I'll be doing more PC gaming now especially since its cheaper, so Im only getting one system this time.

I think all of the arguing is giving me headaches but like I said I think this week's presentation caused a riff in the userbase M$ has and that's never a good thing to do.

Not even sure what games will be the first year anyway, most of them are never that great in the first year.

What's interesting is that there seem to be more titles popping up every day. I think we're in for a pretty solid lineup on both systems. I do think PS4 has a slight advantage with inFamous and Killzone though. If they were to do The Last of Us for PS4 it would put PS4 over the top for sure. I think both systems will have a lot better launch lineups than we've seen before though, at least, here's to hoping that's the case.

[Flawless]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

So, this basically means that MSFT's genius idea to counter Sony's DDR5 was pointless, from years of Intel trying and failing. If you guys really want to read why the X1 is on it's downfall spec wise and system wise, head over to CNET.

It's not really a counter, they wanted a lot memory for cheap while still maintaining some degree of performance. It probably wasn't looking good for 4gbit GDDR5 chips in time for launch when they made their decisions too. It definitely sounded like the increase in memory for PS4 happened not long before the unveiling, and it came as a surprise to a lot devs. Impossible for Microsoft to counter this.

Also, the 10MB of EDRAM for the 360 had its benefits. 10MB did end being somewhat limiting as the generation went on though.

Redlynx dev:

On Xbox 360, the EDRAM helps a lot with backbuffer bandwidth. For example in our last Xbox 360 game we had a 2 MRT g-buffer (deferred rendering, depth + 2x8888 buffers, same bit depth as in CryEngine 3). The g-buffer writes require 12 bytes of bandwidth per pixel, and all that bandwidth is fully provided by EDRAM. For each rendered pixel we sample three textures. Textures are block compressed (2xDXT5+1xDXN), so they take a total 3 bytes per sampled texel. Assuming a coherent access pattern and trilinear filtering, we multiply that cost by 1.25 (25% extra memory touched by trilinear), and we get a texture bandwidth requirement of 3.75 bytes per rendered pixel. Without EDRAM the external memory bandwidth requirement is 12+3.75 bytes = 15.75 bytes per pixel. With EDRAM it is only 3.75 bytes. That is a 76% saving (over 4x external memory bandwidth cost without EDRAM). Deferred rendering is a widely used technique in high end AAA games. It is often criticized to be bandwidth inefficient, but developers still love to use it because it has lots of benefits. On Xbox 360, the EDRAM enables efficient usage of deferred rendering.

Also a fast read/write on chip memory scratchpad (or a big cache) would help a lot with image post processing. Most of the image post process algorithms need no (or just a little) extra memory in addition to the processed backbuffer. With large enough on chip memory (or cache), most post processing algorithms become completely free of external memory bandwidth. Examples: HDR bloom, lens flares/streaks, bokeh/DOF, motion blur (per pixel motion vectors), SSAO/SSDO, post AA filters, color correction, etc, etc. The screen space local reflection (SSLR) algorithm (in Killzone Shadow Fall) would benefit the most from fast on chip local memory, since tracing those secondary rays from the min/max quadtree acceleration structure has quite an incoherent memory access pattern. Incoherent accesses are latency sensitive (lots of cache misses) and the on chip memories tend to have smaller latencies (of course it's implementation specific, but that is usually true, since the memory is closer to the execution units, for example Haswell's 128 MB L4 should be lower latency than the external memory). I would expect to see a lot more post process effects in the future as developers are targeting cinematic rendering with their new engines. Fast on chip memory scratchpad (or a big cache) would reduce bandwidth requirement a lot.

[Gerg04]

That's why I do it though, Xbox One is such a stupid name and at least Xbone makes me chuckle a bit.

Wait....That didn't sound right either.

I don't know. ..I'm pretty sure you just enjoy saying Xbone.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

[Blzer]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

I can't believe Microsoft is pushing "Xbone." It's gotta be X1. In time that should stick.

[mgoblue]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

What's interesting is that there seem to be more titles popping up every day. I think we're in for a pretty solid lineup on both systems. I do think PS4 has a slight advantage with inFamous and Killzone though. If they were to do The Last of Us for PS4 it would put PS4 over the top for sure. I think both systems will have a lot better launch lineups than we've seen before though, at least, here's to hoping that's the case.

I like Infamous, but Killzone does nothing for me. IMO it's a IP I don't care about one bit....I'd rather play BF or other solid shooters vs. Killzone.

That's where I'm disconnected from you, the games the PS4 pushed didn't "wow" me like they did you. I was more wowed by the X1's entertainment/living room features, which you couldn't care less about.

I do agree with you though, I want more info and will consider both consoles. I feel both companies have released so little info, so it's hard to tell.


Separate question (to those who have the Vita as well). Are devs using the touch pad a lot (or in great ways)? Do you think they'll use it well on PS4? To me it seems like a throwaway tech that will get forgotten pretty fast (similar to the crap Sony pushed on us with the motion controls on PS3 at launch).

[Blzer]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

Separate question (to those who have the Vita as well). Are devs using the touch pad a lot (or in great ways)? Do you think they'll use it well on PS4? To me it seems like a throwaway tech that will get forgotten pretty fast (similar to the crap Sony pushed on us with the motion controls on PS3 at launch).

It can be okay, but is mostly gimmicky. I like them as options only. The rear touchpad can really be a pain in the *** if it's "always on" and you're trying to handle a game in a certain way. I only use the rear touchpad for web browsing.

The touchscreen is really fun with the LBP cross-controller DLC, though.

[23]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

If tuned right I think it would make a great alternative to a D pad