The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

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  • Money99
    Hall Of Fame
    • Sep 2002
    • 12696

    #61
    Re: Batman 2 Discussion

    Originally posted by Misfit
    I personally hope Robin is never introduced to the franchise. Robin debuted in the comics when Batman wasn't really depicted as the character we see in the comics and movies today, and I've just felt he's never fit in with the darker take on the character. If they want to get Robin on the big screen they should make a Teen Titans film or something.
    I couldn't agree more. Keep Robin out of these movies entirely.
    And I've never gotten the whole Robin thing anyway. Batman's supposed to be so 'baddass' why does he need a 12 year old boy/girl to help him?
    I know the whole 'I lost my parents too' bullcrap but it doesn't sit right. Especially with all the kiddy-porn crap that goes on these days.

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    • caseyd
      D*d y** g*t th* m*m*?
      • Jul 2002
      • 2367

      #62
      Re: Batman 2 Discussion

      Originally posted by Money99
      I couldn't agree more. Keep Robin out of these movies entirely.
      And I've never gotten the whole Robin thing anyway. Batman's supposed to be so 'baddass' why does he need a 12 year old boy/girl to help him?
      I know the whole 'I lost my parents too' bullcrap but it doesn't sit right. Especially with all the kiddy-porn crap that goes on these days.
      I could be wrong, but wasn't Robin involved in the Batman storyline way before kiddy porn became an issue? Like you said, Robin lost his parents, Bruce Wayne took him in and got a sidekick in the process. I don't get where the Robin/kiddy porn connection comes in though. Are you sure you're reading the same comic books?
      Mario Kart Wii: 1203 9969 5095
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      • SPTO
        binging
        • Feb 2003
        • 68046

        #63
        Re: Batman 2 Discussion

        Originally posted by Misfit
        I personally hope Robin is never introduced to the franchise. Robin debuted in the comics when Batman wasn't really depicted as the character we see in the comics and movies today.
        Huh, wha?

        I've got a couple of the BATMAN ARCHIVES before Robin was introduced and Batman was a pretty cold and calculated SOB. He wasn't afraid to use guns or kill his enemies.

        In short, he was a cold hearted SOB that seeked out vengence.

        Robin was introduced to give Batman some compassion and connection to his readers. If Batman never had a kid sidekick I don't think he'd last very far into the comics code era as the character was far more darker then he became with Robin in the mix.

        Also for those dragging out the kiddie porn card, yes it was noted back then from Dr. Fredric Wertham in his book SEDUCTION OF THE INNOCENT. Here's a passage of note:

        The latter would become evident in this passage from Seduction which attacks the Batman comics: "Robin is a handsome ephebic boy, usually shown in his uniform with bare legs. He is buoyant with energy and devoted to nothing on earth or in interplanetary space as much as to Bruce Wayne. He often stands with his legs spread, the genital region discreetly evident"
        Link

        I'll say this for Wertham, his heart was in the right place but he was sorely misguided. His crusade was what led to the comics code in the first place.
        Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

        "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

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        • Fresh Tendrils
          Strike Hard and Fade Away
          • Jul 2002
          • 36131

          #64
          Re: Batman 2 Discussion

          C.O.D as Robin reminded me of Jason Todd and I was hoping he would have been killed as well. Nolan has said Robin will not be in the next two movies. I'm sure they could get it to work, but with what's going on in the next two movies, adding another main character would be too much.



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          • Misfit
            All Star
            • Mar 2003
            • 5766

            #65
            Re: Batman 2 Discussion

            Exactly. Batman became a hokey piece of crap when Robin debuted. Eventually the darker image returned to the Batman books with Robin a part of it (old Two-Face gave him a savage beating while Batman was forced to look on, and of course the death of Jason Todd, the second Robin) but Robin represents the softer image of Batman for me. Batman is best as a solo detective and surely the creators of Batman The Animated Series would agree since Robin appeared in a very small number of episodes (at least until the "lighter" series debuted on the WB).

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            • SPTO
              binging
              • Feb 2003
              • 68046

              #66
              Re: Batman 2 Discussion

              Originally posted by Misfit
              Exactly. Batman became a hokey piece of crap when Robin debuted. Eventually the darker image returned to the Batman books with Robin a part of it (old Two-Face gave him a savage beating while Batman was forced to look on, and of course the death of Jason Todd, the second Robin) but Robin represents the softer image of Batman for me. Batman is best as a solo detective and surely the creators of Batman The Animated Series would agree since Robin appeared in a very small number of episodes (at least until the "lighter" series debuted on the WB).
              But see, this is the problem. There's a lot of Batman fans that think the character has gotten TOO dark, TOO psychotic and TOO humourless. You need a character to offset that or the books/movies will be bogged down with all that heavy stuff.

              Comic relief and a sense of fun is a VERY good thing if done right.
              Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

              "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

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              • Misfit
                All Star
                • Mar 2003
                • 5766

                #67
                Re: Batman 2 Discussion

                There was enough "fun" in Batman Begins. He made a few jokes with some dry wit. I think thats all that is needed. Plus, the idea of a man letting a boy run around the city fighitng crime in a pedophile's dream of a costume just doesn't make sense. Who in their right mind would let a kid do that?! And like I said, they have Teen Titans if they want to appeal to kids.

                Comment

                • SPTO
                  binging
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 68046

                  #68
                  Re: Batman 2 Discussion

                  Well I won't fight with you on this point misfit as I don't think I could convince you otherwise.

                  I do agree tho that a live action Teen Titans movie would be neat.
                  Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                  "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

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                  • Misfit
                    All Star
                    • Mar 2003
                    • 5766

                    #69
                    Re: Batman 2 Discussion

                    I see your point, I just don't agree that Batman needs to be watered down at all. He is what he is.

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                    • aukevin
                      War Eagle, Go Braves!
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 14700

                      #70
                      Re: Batman 2 Discussion

                      I'm a big fan of Robin and I would like to see him in the movies, but first, I would rather see Batman with Harvey Dent as a partner. I think Batman Begins 2 would be a great opportunity to have Batman and Dent team up as a duo to fight crime. Batman during the night and Dent doing stuff as the DA with Gordon during the day. Obviously this would be heavily influenced from "The Long Halloween" Batman comics, but I wouldn't want to same plot. I've already read that plot many times and would want something different. But the concept would be great because at this point in the movie, Batman only trusts Gordon but can learn to trust and befriend Dent like in comics. It would kind of have a Revenge of the Sith feel to it because you know that Batman is going to lose his friend eventually to the "darkside." That overall tone of the Star Wars prequels was my favorite part.

                      One of the things I didn't like about Batman Forever was how Two-Face was just a standard pyschotic villian of Batman's when there is so much more history to that character and Batman. It seems that Batman Begins went a lot deeper into the minds of the characters than previous movies and I think they could make two more great movies by setting up Harvey Dent and Batman's friendship in one movie and then lead it into another movie where Batman must battle Two-Face.

                      Atlanta Braves
                      - Auburn Tigers - Nashville Predators

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                      • SPTO
                        binging
                        • Feb 2003
                        • 68046

                        #71
                        Re: Batman 2 Discussion

                        Originally posted by aukevin

                        One of the things I didn't like about Batman Forever was how Two-Face was just a standard pyschotic villian of Batman's when there is so much more history to that character and Batman. It seems that Batman Begins went a lot deeper into the minds of the characters than previous movies and I think they could make two more great movies by setting up Harvey Dent and Batman's friendship in one movie and then lead it into another movie where Batman must battle Two-Face.
                        I know this is a bit off the track but I love what you're talking about. As you know in the main Bat Books Batman trusts a "healed" (btw how did that happen? ) Harvey Dent to fight crime in Gotham while he's gone for a year and now Batman is back and Harvey's all jealous and upset about it to the point that his psychosis is back and he willingly scars up his face to become Two-Face again.

                        I really like that dynamic between those two characters. Batman has the best rogues gallery of any DC hero and you really can't go wrong with any of them as long as you provide strong writing and interesting situations.
                        Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                        "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

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                        • aukevin
                          War Eagle, Go Braves!
                          • Dec 2002
                          • 14700

                          #72
                          Re: Batman 2 Discussion

                          Originally posted by SPTO
                          I know this is a bit off the track but I love what you're talking about. As you know in the main Bat Books Batman trusts a "healed" (btw how did that happen? ) Harvey Dent to fight crime in Gotham while he's gone for a year and now Batman is back and Harvey's all jealous and upset about it to the point that his psychosis is back and he willingly scars up his face to become Two-Face again.
                          I believe it was in the Hush storyline where Dent decides to have plastic surgery which seemed to remove his Two-Face personality for the time being.

                          Atlanta Braves
                          - Auburn Tigers - Nashville Predators

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                          • Fresh Tendrils
                            Strike Hard and Fade Away
                            • Jul 2002
                            • 36131

                            #73
                            Re: Batman 2 Discussion

                            Bale got the MTV Movie Award (yawn right?) for best superhero.

                            Guess who gave him the award...




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                            • TerpsJunkie
                              Pro
                              • Apr 2003
                              • 792

                              #74
                              Re: Batman 2 Discussion

                              Even though he is 28 already, I think John Hensley from Nip/Tuck would make a good Robin for the Batman Begins series. His work on Nip/Tuck is pretty great.

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                              • Fresh Tendrils
                                Strike Hard and Fade Away
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 36131

                                #75
                                Re: Batman 2 Discussion

                                Comic Con is at the end of July. Hopefully WB will release some official information on the next Batman movie.



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