The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

[DrJones]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

Yeah, but you had the knowledge of who the Joker is and what he's done in the past (Dent/Rachael switch). Those on the boat had no idea. They probably assumed he was telling the truth about who's ship would blow up when you pressed the detonator. The viewer knew he was lying (or at least suspected).

Personally, I don't know if I would press it or not. If I was aware of the history of the individual who planted the bomb, like the viewer of the movie, I wouldn't press it. But if that were an honest situation, I have no idea.

I honestly doubt I'd press it. I can accept taking a life of an individual who is set on endangering another life, but I don't think I'd be able to take the life of an innocent (cops/soldiers on the prisoner boat) to preserve my own.

Spoiler

To all those saying they would never push the button, bear in mind that there's more than just your life at stake. What about all the innocents (including women and children) on your own boat? If it was just your life, then yes, it's relatively "easy" to be selfless and sacrifice yourself, but what if your girlfriend/wife/child was on the ferry with you? Would you allow them to die as well so you wouldn't have to live with a guilty conscience? I'm not saying any answer you give would be right or wrong, but it certainly couldn't be easy.

[Blzer]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

To all those saying they would never push the button, bear in mind that there's more than just your life at stake. What about all the innocents (including women and children) on your own boat? If it was just your life, then yes, it's relatively "easy" to be selfless and sacrifice yourself, but what if your girlfriend/wife/child was on the ferry with you? Would you allow them to die as well so you wouldn't have to live with a guilty conscience? I'm not saying any answer you give would be right or wrong, but it certainly couldn't be easy.

Spoiler

Now I'm not saying I wouldn't stop anybody else, but I certainly couldn't push that button myself.

[Double Eights]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

To all those saying they would never push the button, bear in mind that there's more than just your life at stake. What about all the innocents (including women and children) on your own boat?

Spoiler

That goes both ways. The other boat wasn't just filled with convicts, but also police officers, ship crew,and what looked like soldiers of some sort. By pressing the button, I not only killed all those convicts, but also all those innocent individuals escorting them.

[DrJones]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

That goes both ways. The other boat wasn't just filled with convicts, but also police officers, ship crew,and what looked like soldiers of some sort. By pressing the button, I not only killed all those convicts, but also all those innocent individuals escorting them.

Spoiler

That's not really answering my question, though. Assuming that you took The Joker's word for granted, and thought there it was 100% certain that your boat would be destroyed if someone from your boat didn't push the button, would you do it if it meant saving your wife and child?

[Double Eights]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

That's not really answering my question, though. Assuming that you took The Joker's word for granted, and thought there it was 100% certain that your boat would be destroyed if someone from your boat didn't push the button, would you do it if it meant saving your wife and child?

Spoiler

Not at the cost of taking the wife or child of another man.

[GenoG]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

Yeah, the dialogue in this scene...and in pretty much every scene of the movie...was top notch. But yeah, the appearance of the sonar system was pretty...over-the-top, so to speak. The concept was cool and worked, especially the conversation between Batman and Fox.

And a question for those who have seen it:

Spoiler

Would you have pressed the button, or not?

Spoiler

knowing the joker. The button that you had was probably wired to your boat.

[Hassan Darkside]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

knowing the joker. The button that you had was probably wired to your boat.

Actually the same thought just crossed my mind about 3 seconds before reading your post. So for me, definite no.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

I thought the sonar technology was cool. I mean, despite all its praise and comparisons to Godfather II and The Departed, it is still very much a comic book film and I felt like things like that and The Bat-Pod helped it stay true to the feel and imagination of a comic book film. Plus, I feel like its a plausible technology in its basic form. Not to mention the fact it raises a lot of implications/questions outside of the film and in our world today. The lenses thing kind of threw me off, though. I think it they were a little more subtle, it would have been good, but they just looked too fake to me and I think they were too bright. The lenses do, however, confirm that a Batman with white eyes/lenses ala the comics will never look right in a live-action film.

As for the question at hand, like I stated in my review/impressions, I doubt I could press the button. Vote yes - possibly, but I would never be able to actually push the button myself. Criminals or not, I just don't think I have it in me to kill another person - at least not like that.

And it seems I'm in the minority, but I actually believe the Joker when he said the detonators were rigged to the other ship. I know the Joker did the ol switcher-roo earlier, but to me the Joker isn't the type to repeat his tricks. I honestly think the Joker wanted to know what the citizens of Gotham would do and wanted to see Batman lose faith in his city to really break him. Its easy to go either ways with this since rigging them one way or another would prove the same point, so I'm not going to really debate with anybody about it because in the end its kind of a moot point.

While I'm at it, things I would like to see in the next film:

obviously a working Bat-Cave.
Replacement batmobile
more Mike Engel - I thought he was under-utilized in the film, but was amazing in the online marketing for the movie.
Two-Face returns - I really hope he comes back because I would be bummed if Nolan killed off one of Batman's greatest villains in his first appearance.
Selina Kyle
More Scarecrow
Batman back as Gotham's true good-guy (another obvious one)

According to wikipedia...

The Dark Knight opened on July 16, 2008 in Australia and July 18, 2008 in the United States with midnight screenings in 3,040 theaters. From the first midnight screenings, the film has earned $18.5 million and has set a new midnight debut record beating Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith which earned $16.9 million.<sup id="cite_ref-msnbc_114-0" class="reference">[115]</sup> On its opening day, July 18, 2008, The Dark Knight set a single-day box office record of $66.4 million, breaking a record of $59.8 million previously held by Spider-Man 3. It is now on pace to surpass Spider-Man 3's opening weekend of $151.1 million.<sup id="cite_ref-115" class="reference">[116]</sup>

[The Chef]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

Well maybe Im in the minority but Im on that boat, and keep in mind the people on board didnt have the knowledge about Joker that we the spectators of the movie did, I would have pushed that trigger multiple times. I mean seriously, if Im standing there with my family, Im not going to put the safety of others ahead of my own family, Im supposed to protect them, not sacrafice them.

I think a lot of people arent paying close attention to what Dr. Jones said, he said if you knew that pressing the button would blow up the other boat and it was a simple do I die or live, would you press the button? He isnt speculating about what they did or didnt know about Joker or anything similar, its straight forward. IMO, at that point it becomes about kill or be killed and, like I said previously, it isnt going to be me going down with the ship.

[Skerik]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Saw the movie yesterday, still not ready to talk about it. Suffice it to say that I loved it and plan to watch it again many more times. However, some Batman 3 villain talk....

Spoiler

My one gripe with this franchise so far is that it's burned through four of Batman's absolute best villains in just two movies, three of which have been pretty much exhausted and the fourth of whom, if he's not dead, is at least in police custody and therefore unable to be the main villain of the third movie.

The one thing Nolan has done with these villains is return them to a primal and realistic existence. No more freeze-rays, man-eating plants, mind control devices and other ridiculous gadgetry and inanity. Look at the Joker for instance - he used primordial weapons like drums of oil and simple knives, but he used them in an exotic and dangerous way so they seemed out of the ordinary. So whoever the main villain is in the next movie, we can pretty much rule out villains with superpowers or other unnatural and unrealistic existences.

The next villain also needs to tie back into the mob. Villains aside, the mob has been the main story in both movies so far and Batman finally taking them down (and rising from outcast to hero) needs to be the main plot of the third movie. So I think the best choice, for all of these reasons, would be....

Black Mask. Wikipedia describes him as follows:

Roman Sionis, a former business executive who originally hated Bruce Wayne rather than Batman, wears a Black Mask and leads the cult-like False Face Society of henchmen. Black Mask eventually became a mob boss controlling large sections of Gotham's criminal underworld.

In my opinion, we don't need a blockbuster villain like Riddler, Penguin, Catwoman, etc. I would even be ok with no villain at all. But I think Black Mask would provide a perfectly respectable villain while refocusing the movie where it should be focused - on the mob and on Batman's rise as hero of Gotham after his fall in TDK.

[Hassan Darkside]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

Well maybe Im in the minority but Im on that boat, and keep in mind the people on board didnt have the knowledge about Joker that we the spectators of the movie did, I would have pushed that trigger multiple times. I mean seriously, if Im standing there with my family, Im not going to put the safety of others ahead of my own family, Im supposed to protect them, not sacrafice them.

I think a lot of people arent paying close attention to what Dr. Jones said, he said if you knew that pressing the button would blow up the other boat and it was a simple do I die or live, would you press the button? He isnt speculating about what they did or didnt know about Joker or anything similar, its straight forward. IMO, at that point it becomes about kill or be killed and, like I said previously, it isnt going to be me going down with the ship.

Spoiler

But they were aware of the Joker to an extent. He had been on the news before and then he showed himself in the video to the passengers.

[The Chef]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

But they were aware of the Joker to an extent. He had been on the news before and then he showed himself in the video to the passengers.

Spoiler

Bu they really didnt have any reason to think they would have switched it up like that because they werent aware of what happened with the bombs earlier and how they were switched. They knew that the Joker was a evil guy but thats about all they knew. Again, Dr. Jones' question was pretty straight forward but everyone kept throwing in the fact that they knew how the Joker was, the people on board didnt and thats the question. What would you do, standing next to your family, not knowing that the Joker had the potential to switch the bombs, knowing that its either you or them?

[Scottdau]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

To all those saying they would never push the button, bear in mind that there's more than just your life at stake. What about all the innocents (including women and children) on your own boat? If it was just your life, then yes, it's relatively "easy" to be selfless and sacrifice yourself, but what if your girlfriend/wife/child was on the ferry with you? Would you allow them to die as well so you wouldn't have to live with a guilty conscience? I'm not saying any answer you give would be right or wrong, but it certainly couldn't be easy.

Spoiler

that is the problem. I remember a true story about a guy that work at the draw bridge. One day he had his kid at work with him and the kid ended up playing in the gear shift of the bridge the dad was not paying attention. And when the boat came with a lot of people on it. He saw that his son was playing in the gear shift. Instead of killing the innocent people he killed his son. I don't know if I can do it, but I see both sides.

[The Chef]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

that is the problem. I remember a true story about a guy that work at the draw bridge. One day he had his kid at work with him and the kid ended up playing in the gear shift of the bridge the dad was not paying attention. And when the boat came with a lot of people on it. He saw that his son was playing in the gear shift. Instead of killing the innocent people he killed his son. I don't know if I can do it, but I see both sides.

Huh? How did he kill his son? Secondly, I cant understand how you can place perfect strangers value above your own family, that just doesnt make any sense to me. Talk about a strange story to post in the Batman thread, I guess they are tied together in a way but it seems so far apart.


*****NOTICE*****

My above reply has nothing to do with the movie, hence the spoiler tag not being present. Scott is talking about an event that happened in real life so I dont see why it needs a spoiler tag but if a MOD feels it should then dont hesitate to do it.

[Scottdau]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Huh? How did he kill his son? Secondly, I cant understand how you can place perfect strangers value above your own family, that just doesnt make any sense to me. Talk about a strange story to post in the Batman thread, I guess they are tied together in a way but it seems so far apart.


*****NOTICE*****

My above reply has nothing to do with the movie, hence the spoiler tag not being present. Scott is talking about an event that happened in real life so I dont see why it needs a spoiler tag but if a MOD feels it should then dont hesitate to do it.

Yeah I read his post wrong. lol But they have some tie. He killed his son by opening the bridge it crush his son. I know what you are saying, and I think I would do the same, but it is still tough.