The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

[thaima1shu]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

I though there was enough action but it just wasn't done right. Nolan still needs practice as he has that habit of filming action scenes that are hard to watch because it's jumping all over the place and it's worse when most of the action is at night like this film. He did this in Begins often but in TDK almost every action scene was haphazardly shot with no flow.

Meh ... not sure what the problem is. I could tell what was going on the entire time, wasn't all too difficult to me.

[jfsolo]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

I saw it today and I must have had lofty expectations from all the buzz but I was underwhelmed and I actually think Begins is the superior film and this is coming from a huge Nolan fan.

The movie focused way too much on Dent and the climax was anything but climatic, at least the last 15 minutes was slow beyond belief. They didn't focus nearly enough on the Bruce Wayne\Batman character and it felt more like a Harvey Dent film rather than a Batman film. That death that happened should of affected batman alot more than how it was played out.

I know Nolan couldn't of forecast Ledger's death but the final scenes with the Joker were anti-climatic to say the least and should have been more fleshed out regardless of whether Nolan intended to have the Joker in the next film or not. The ending scenes with Dent just dragged on forever and at that point in the movie I just wanted it to end and that never happens to me with a movie I truly enjoy. I though there was enough action but it just wasn't done right. Nolan still needs practice as he has that habit of filming action scenes that are hard to watch because it's jumping all over the place and it's worse when most of the action is at night like this film. He did this in Begins often but in TDK almost every action scene was haphazardly shot with no flow.

IMO the 1st half was excellent but the 2nd half brought it down to a good but not great movie. To me it still ranks behind X-men 2, Spiderman 2 and Begins.

It was a Harvey Dent film. Nolan couldn't really come out and say so, but its the truth. Every character in the film knows that he's really the central figure of the story and their words and actions support that reality. Now maybe that's not the movie you wanted to see, but its the story he wanted to tell. You could say on some level that he ambushed the viewers, I think it was a masterful stroke, you disagree.

All films are stand alone entities in and of themselves, but I think he felt compelled to take the narrative in this direction based on the universe they created in the first film. To have done it differently, IMO, would have been to ignore the most logical next chapter of the tale to a certain extent.

If the action scenes come off as haphazard, it is because I think that they were meticulously crafted to appear that way. The Batman is an utilitarian fighter. There is no poetry in it for him. Create confusion, and take them down fast and hard.

I like your quartet of films, I just have a different order. I go Knight, Begins, X2, Spidey 2.

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

It was a Harvey Dent film. Nolan couldn't really come out and say so, but its the truth. Every character in the film knows that he's really the central figure of the story and their words and actions support that reality. Now maybe that's not the movie you wanted to see, but its the story he wanted to tell. You could say on some level that he ambushed the viewers, I think it was a masterful stroke, you disagree.

All films are stand alone entities in and of themselves, but I think he felt compelled to take the narrative in this direction based on the universe they created in the first film. To have done it differently, IMO, would have been to ignore the most logical next chapter of the tale to a certain extent.

If the action scenes come off as haphazard, it is because I think that they were meticulously crafted to appear that way. The Batman is an utilitarian fighter. There is no poetry in it for him. Create confusion, and take them down fast and hard.

I like your quartet of films, I just have a different order. I go Knight, Begins, X2, Spidey 2.

Actually the 3 movies I mentioned are in no particular order, it's just the 3 superhero movies I consider in the upper echelon. TDK I rank a notch below but maybe it will improve for me on subsequent viewings. I respect the fact that Dent was central figure but I don't think that character warrants such screen time because he's a character that is one dimensional as Harvey Dent and his mental transformation to two face was something that didn't seem believable.

The love for Rachel that Harvey and Batman shared was equal yet Dent went off the deep end enough that he wanted to shoot a child yet Batman wasn't distraught enough to even want to kill the Joker who was responsible for it. Remember this is the same Batman who destroyed half the city with his batmobile fleeing the cops in Begins because Rachel was dying.

How Dent's grieving would want him to become a child murderer was hard to swallow and took away from the film's reality. Kinda like SP3 in how Harry went after Spiderman with murderous rage thru 2 films but all it took was a good talking to from his butler to smarten up. In both cases it seemed like lazy storytelling just to tie up loose ends. Just like the final showdown between Joker and Batman, which I thought would be the film's payoff, never really happened. You can't treat the Joker as a criminal mastermind who made everyone look stupid and just leave him hanging upside down and the cops arresting him. It was weak and it seemed that Nolan couldn't figure out a way for the Joker to meet his demise while still leaving it open ended for a possible future appearance. As soon as I saw Ledgers' masterful work in his 1st scene I was anticipating how he would meet his end and it never transpired, it was a complete letdown and his Oscar worthy performance shouldn't hide the fact that this movie has alot of weaknesses.

Just for me the Dent character wasn't nearly interesting enough to be given top billing and for me was the major flaw of the film that prevents it from being truly great. Having Dent be the major villian in the 3rd film (if he is somehow still alive) could be fatal to the franchise. That and the lack of film time given to the relationship between Bruce Wayne and Alfred. Their banter back and forth after a hard night of crime fighting was a highlight for me in Begins. In TDK I didn't see the Bruce Wayne\Batman character have any kind of further character development. He was just a secondary figure thru the whole film and I couldn't identify with him or root for him because Nolan didn't let us care enough about him. It was almost like he was in the way and Batman is probably the most multi dimensional superhero out there. It was almost like Nolan was consumed with making a Batman movie without using Batman just to prove a point. Ledger's work made it possible with Joker but I think it failed miserably with Harvey Dent.

[USF11]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

How Dent's grieving would want him to become a child murderer was hard to swallow and took away from the film's reality. Kinda like SP3 in how Harry went after Spiderman with murderous rage thru 2 films but all it took was a good talking to from his butler to smarten up. In both cases it seemed like lazy storytelling just to tie up loose ends.

I disagree, the whole point is Harvey went nuts and theres no logic to it. It wasnt just the fact rachel died its the fact Harvey's entire life was ruined.

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

I disagree, the whole point is Harvey went nuts and theres no logic to it. It wasnt just the fact rachel died its the fact Harvey's entire life was ruined.

When there's no logic to it, it's usually a case of lazy storytelling. I expected more from Nolan after movies like Begins, The Prestige, Insomnia and Memento where he was a master at developing tragic figures.

[Kashanova]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

I disagree, the whole point is Harvey went nuts and theres no logic to it. It wasnt just the fact rachel died its the fact Harvey's entire life was ruined.

i believe there was a logic the fact that rachel had been threaten might had pushed him towards the edge a bit plus i dont think he was going to kill him anyways, the coin was heads on both sides and was probably trying to scared the kid

[trobinson97]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

I just watched it myself and it was a good Batman movie. I enjoyed Echart's and Ledger's performances. After all that best movie of all time hype talk though, I really was expecting more. I fell asleep a couple of times unfortunately, though I don't want to blame that neccessarily on the movie. Being completely real, I've never been much of a Batman fan anyway, so I wasn't as wet as some to see the flick, but after hearing all the hype I figured I owed it to myself. I thught it was cool, but different strokes and all that.

My wife enjoyed it too, though she expressed a lot of annoyance at Bale's Batman voice, I agreed with her.

[Beantown]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

I respect the fact that Dent was central figure but I don't think that character warrants such screen time because he's a character that is one dimensional as Harvey Dent and his mental transformation to two face was something that didn't seem believable.

The love for Rachel that Harvey and Batman shared was equal yet Dent went off the deep end enough that he wanted to shoot a child yet Batman wasn't distraught enough to even want to kill the Joker who was responsible for it. Remember this is the same Batman who destroyed half the city with his batmobile fleeing the cops in Begins because Rachel was dying.

How Dent's grieving would want him to become a child murderer was hard to swallow and took away from the film's reality. Kinda like SP3 in how Harry went after Spiderman with murderous rage thru 2 films but all it took was a good talking to from his butler to smarten up. In both cases it seemed like lazy storytelling just to tie up loose ends. Just like the final showdown between Joker and Batman, which I thought would be the film's payoff, never really happened. You can't treat the Joker as a criminal mastermind who made everyone look stupid and just leave him hanging upside down and the cops arresting him. It was weak and it seemed that Nolan couldn't figure out a way for the Joker to meet his demise while still leaving it open ended for a possible future appearance. As soon as I saw Ledgers' masterful work in his 1st scene I was anticipating how he would meet his end and it never transpired, it was a complete letdown and his Oscar worthy performance shouldn't hide the fact that this movie has alot of weaknesses.

Just for me the Dent character wasn't nearly interesting enough to be given top billing and for me was the major flaw of the film that prevents it from being truly great. Having Dent be the major villian in the 3rd film (if he is somehow still alive) could be fatal to the franchise. That and the lack of film time given to the relationship between Bruce Wayne and Alfred. Their banter back and forth after a hard night of crime fighting was a highlight for me in Begins. In TDK I didn't see the Bruce Wayne\Batman character have any kind of further character development. He was just a secondary figure thru the whole film and I couldn't identify with him or root for him because Nolan didn't let us care enough about him. It was almost like he was in the way and Batman is probably the most multi dimensional superhero out there. It was almost like Nolan was consumed with making a Batman movie without using Batman just to prove a point. Ledger's work made it possible with Joker but I think it failed miserably with Harvey Dent.

For someone that seems to be a fan of Batman, and I could be completely wrong about that, you don't seem to appreciate how true-to-form this movie was.

Re: The Joker....

Spoiler

How many times in the comics and cartoons has Batman done that same exact thing to the Joker? Taken it so close to the edge, but just left him there for the cop because he can't break his one rule. He can't kill him, he can't become exactly what the Joker wants him to become because then he betrays the very thing that keeps Batman different, keeps him going. I can, off the top of my head, remember plenty of times where Batman and the Joker dueled, only to have Batman leave the Joker laying, laughing hysterically while the cops hauled him in. The fact that Noaln didn't break form and do something just for the sake of doing it is brilliant.

Re: Harvey Dent...

Spoiler

I'll start off with one thing: Harvey Dent is not one-dimensional, and this film showed that. Harvey Dent, even before the accident, was two people. They alluded to that with the fact that Dent was previously called Two-Face because while he was the White Knight, Gotham's one true hero and the man who could save the city...he was also something else. You could see it in the courtroom scene when he punches the guy on the witness stand, you could see it in the street scene with Jervis, and then when he screams at Batman.

Again, Nolan stuck true to form. Nolan didn't change Harvey Dent to be some over-the-top character. He was the perfect dual persona character. While he was Harvey Dent, he was the hero...but he was the hero with a dark side inside of him. He was a hero with two faces. Nolan stuck to the comic book and cartoon way of showing Dent's transformation by showing the respectable man lose control at certain points.

Re: Batman as a secondary character

Spoiler

That's exactly what he was supposed to be, and that is the true point that was brilliant about this movie. Batman, the main character in the universe, was turned into a secondary character. The Joker and Dent were the main focuses of the movie, while Batman and Bruce Wayne were pushed to the back. Why? Because that is exactly what Gotham was going through at the moment. At the beginning of the film, citizens are dressing up as Batman and trying to help. Along come the Joker and Harvey Dent. Suddenly, in Gotham, the Joker has turned Batman into a villain, of sorts, and Harvey Dent has taken the role of hero. Batman, in Gotham's mind, was pushed aside, and that was evidenced by the fact that they were all so willing to have Batman surrender and give in.

Re: Rachel's effect...

Spoiler

Rachel's death was supposed to effect Batman more. That was the Joker's plan all along. He lays it out perfectly when he is hanging upside-down...he killed Rachel to make sure he had a back-up plan in case Batman, and the citizens on the boat, failed him. He needed to drive someone so far over the edge that they would aid him in introducing a bit of anarchy into the city. Dent was that character, and the Joker knew it. The Joker knew that, of the two (Batman and Dent), Batman was "truly incorruptable." Batman was emotionless because he had to be in order to remain Batman. Batman showed his emotions in the interrogation scene and the Joker almsot won - almost made him break his one rule. But Batman is above that level. Rachel's death effected Bruce Wayne because Bruce Wayne has limits, feelings, emotions. As Batman, though, it didn't show, minus the "You Weren't" line he delivers to Dent about losing everything.

Dent, on the other hand, had limits and had emotions. Dent was the strongest of them, as Batman says, but he was also the most vulnerable. Gordon was able to protect his family by faking his death. Batman doesn't break and doesn't let himself get vulnerable. Dent was a man hanging onto the edge by a single finger and Rachel's death was the last straw. Everything was ripped away from him by the Joker in that explosion - Rachel, his appearance, his plans, his life. Batman lost the love of his life, but Batman had more to hold on to. Batman had already experienced loss with the death of his parents and he turned that around into Batman. Rachel's death was another in the long line of tragedies that happen in Batman/Bruce's life, but as Batman, Bruce Wayne can turn that loss into more.

[thaima1shu]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

For someone that seems to be a fan of Batman, and I could be completely wrong about that, you don't seem to appreciate how true-to-form this movie was.

Re: The Joker....

Spoiler

How many times in the comics and cartoons has Batman done that same exact thing to the Joker? Taken it so close to the edge, but just left him there for the cop because he can't break his one rule. He can't kill him, he can't become exactly what the Joker wants him to become because then he betrays the very thing that keeps Batman different, keeps him going. I can, off the top of my head, remember plenty of times where Batman and the Joker dueled, only to have Batman leave the Joker laying, laughing hysterically while the cops hauled him in. The fact that Noaln didn't break form and do something just for the sake of doing it is brilliant.

Re: Harvey Dent...

Spoiler

I'll start off with one thing: Harvey Dent is not one-dimensional, and this film showed that. Harvey Dent, even before the accident, was two people. They alluded to that with the fact that Dent was previously called Two-Face because while he was the White Knight, Gotham's one true hero and the man who could save the city...he was also something else. You could see it in the courtroom scene when he punches the guy on the witness stand, you could see it in the street scene with Jervis, and then when he screams at Batman.

Again, Nolan stuck true to form. Nolan didn't change Harvey Dent to be some over-the-top character. He was the perfect dual persona character. While he was Harvey Dent, he was the hero...but he was the hero with a dark side inside of him. He was a hero with two faces. Nolan stuck to the comic book and cartoon way of showing Dent's transformation by showing the respectable man lose control at certain points.

Re: Batman as a secondary character

Spoiler

That's exactly what he was supposed to be, and that is the true point that was brilliant about this movie. Batman, the main character in the universe, was turned into a secondary character. The Joker and Dent were the main focuses of the movie, while Batman and Bruce Wayne were pushed to the back. Why? Because that is exactly what Gotham was going through at the moment. At the beginning of the film, citizens are dressing up as Batman and trying to help. Along come the Joker and Harvey Dent. Suddenly, in Gotham, the Joker has turned Batman into a villain, of sorts, and Harvey Dent has taken the role of hero. Batman, in Gotham's mind, was pushed aside, and that was evidenced by the fact that they were all so willing to have Batman surrender and give in.

Re: Rachel's effect...

Spoiler

Rachel's death was supposed to effect Batman more. That was the Joker's plan all along. He lays it out perfectly when he is hanging upside-down...he killed Rachel to make sure he had a back-up plan in case Batman, and the citizens on the boat, failed him. He needed to drive someone so far over the edge that they would aid him in introducing a bit of anarchy into the city. Dent was that character, and the Joker knew it. The Joker knew that, of the two (Batman and Dent), Batman was "truly incorruptable." Batman was emotionless because he had to be in order to remain Batman. Batman showed his emotions in the interrogation scene and the Joker almsot won - almost made him break his one rule. But Batman is above that level. Rachel's death effected Bruce Wayne because Bruce Wayne has limits, feelings, emotions. As Batman, though, it didn't show, minus the "You Weren't" line he delivers to Dent about losing everything.

Dent, on the other hand, had limits and had emotions. Dent was the strongest of them, as Batman says, but he was also the most vulnerable. Gordon was able to protect his family by faking his death. Batman doesn't break and doesn't let himself get vulnerable. Dent was a man hanging onto the edge by a single finger and Rachel's death was the last straw. Everything was ripped away from him by the Joker in that explosion - Rachel, his appearance, his plans, his life. Batman lost the love of his life, but Batman had more to hold on to. Batman had already experienced loss with the death of his parents and he turned that around into Batman. Rachel's death was another in the long line of tragedies that happen in Batman/Bruce's life, but as Batman, Bruce Wayne can turn that loss into more.

By the way, how many times have you seen it already? I'm only up to 2. Bah.

[Beantown]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

By the way, how many times have you seen it already? I'm only up to 2. Bah.

You don't want to know.

[Blzer]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

By the way, how many times have you seen it already? I'm only up to 2. Bah.

Only two here as well. I figure the movie is worth seeing a bunch of times, but not for $10.50 every time. If I see it again, I'll catch a matinee and theater-hop to see it three times.

Cheap, but effective. The way I see it, as long as I'm not taking up somebody else's seat, they're still getting their money's worth in the box office.

[pfunk880]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

For someone that seems to be a fan of Batman, and I could be completely wrong about that, you don't seem to appreciate how true-to-form this movie was.

Re: The Joker....

Spoiler

How many times in the comics and cartoons has Batman done that same exact thing to the Joker? Taken it so close to the edge, but just left him there for the cop because he can't break his one rule. He can't kill him, he can't become exactly what the Joker wants him to become because then he betrays the very thing that keeps Batman different, keeps him going. I can, off the top of my head, remember plenty of times where Batman and the Joker dueled, only to have Batman leave the Joker laying, laughing hysterically while the cops hauled him in. The fact that Noaln didn't break form and do something just for the sake of doing it is brilliant.

Re: Harvey Dent...

Spoiler

I'll start off with one thing: Harvey Dent is not one-dimensional, and this film showed that. Harvey Dent, even before the accident, was two people. They alluded to that with the fact that Dent was previously called Two-Face because while he was the White Knight, Gotham's one true hero and the man who could save the city...he was also something else. You could see it in the courtroom scene when he punches the guy on the witness stand, you could see it in the street scene with Jervis, and then when he screams at Batman.

Again, Nolan stuck true to form. Nolan didn't change Harvey Dent to be some over-the-top character. He was the perfect dual persona character. While he was Harvey Dent, he was the hero...but he was the hero with a dark side inside of him. He was a hero with two faces. Nolan stuck to the comic book and cartoon way of showing Dent's transformation by showing the respectable man lose control at certain points.

Re: Batman as a secondary character

Spoiler

That's exactly what he was supposed to be, and that is the true point that was brilliant about this movie. Batman, the main character in the universe, was turned into a secondary character. The Joker and Dent were the main focuses of the movie, while Batman and Bruce Wayne were pushed to the back. Why? Because that is exactly what Gotham was going through at the moment. At the beginning of the film, citizens are dressing up as Batman and trying to help. Along come the Joker and Harvey Dent. Suddenly, in Gotham, the Joker has turned Batman into a villain, of sorts, and Harvey Dent has taken the role of hero. Batman, in Gotham's mind, was pushed aside, and that was evidenced by the fact that they were all so willing to have Batman surrender and give in.

Re: Rachel's effect...

Spoiler

Rachel's death was supposed to effect Batman more. That was the Joker's plan all along. He lays it out perfectly when he is hanging upside-down...he killed Rachel to make sure he had a back-up plan in case Batman, and the citizens on the boat, failed him. He needed to drive someone so far over the edge that they would aid him in introducing a bit of anarchy into the city. Dent was that character, and the Joker knew it. The Joker knew that, of the two (Batman and Dent), Batman was "truly incorruptable." Batman was emotionless because he had to be in order to remain Batman. Batman showed his emotions in the interrogation scene and the Joker almsot won - almost made him break his one rule. But Batman is above that level. Rachel's death effected Bruce Wayne because Bruce Wayne has limits, feelings, emotions. As Batman, though, it didn't show, minus the "You Weren't" line he delivers to Dent about losing everything.

Dent, on the other hand, had limits and had emotions. Dent was the strongest of them, as Batman says, but he was also the most vulnerable. Gordon was able to protect his family by faking his death. Batman doesn't break and doesn't let himself get vulnerable. Dent was a man hanging onto the edge by a single finger and Rachel's death was the last straw. Everything was ripped away from him by the Joker in that explosion - Rachel, his appearance, his plans, his life. Batman lost the love of his life, but Batman had more to hold on to. Batman had already experienced loss with the death of his parents and he turned that around into Batman. Rachel's death was another in the long line of tragedies that happen in Batman/Bruce's life, but as Batman, Bruce Wayne can turn that loss into more.

Fantastic analysis.

[jmood88]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

By the way, how many times have you seen it already? I'm only up to 2. Bah.

I've only seen it three times but I saw it twice in one day just a couple hours apart.

[Beantown]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

I'm up to...six times, all the way through, and then I've watched certain parts another 5 or more times.

-Midnight showing
-Noon showing friday in IMAX
-Noon showing saturday
-Watched in Sunday night illegally
-Watched it again Monday illegally
-Watched it again Wednesday illegally
-And have watched certain parts over and over since Monday.

Only spent 15 dollars for all of those viewings, too.

[jfsolo]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

For someone that seems to be a fan of Batman, and I could be completely wrong about that, you don't seem to appreciate how true-to-form this movie was.

Re: The Joker....

Spoiler

How many times in the comics and cartoons has Batman done that same exact thing to the Joker? Taken it so close to the edge, but just left him there for the cop because he can't break his one rule. He can't kill him, he can't become exactly what the Joker wants him to become because then he betrays the very thing that keeps Batman different, keeps him going. I can, off the top of my head, remember plenty of times where Batman and the Joker dueled, only to have Batman leave the Joker laying, laughing hysterically while the cops hauled him in. The fact that Noaln didn't break form and do something just for the sake of doing it is brilliant.

Re: Harvey Dent...

Spoiler

I'll start off with one thing: Harvey Dent is not one-dimensional, and this film showed that. Harvey Dent, even before the accident, was two people. They alluded to that with the fact that Dent was previously called Two-Face because while he was the White Knight, Gotham's one true hero and the man who could save the city...he was also something else. You could see it in the courtroom scene when he punches the guy on the witness stand, you could see it in the street scene with Jervis, and then when he screams at Batman.

Again, Nolan stuck true to form. Nolan didn't change Harvey Dent to be some over-the-top character. He was the perfect dual persona character. While he was Harvey Dent, he was the hero...but he was the hero with a dark side inside of him. He was a hero with two faces. Nolan stuck to the comic book and cartoon way of showing Dent's transformation by showing the respectable man lose control at certain points.

Re: Batman as a secondary character

Spoiler

That's exactly what he was supposed to be, and that is the true point that was brilliant about this movie. Batman, the main character in the universe, was turned into a secondary character. The Joker and Dent were the main focuses of the movie, while Batman and Bruce Wayne were pushed to the back. Why? Because that is exactly what Gotham was going through at the moment. At the beginning of the film, citizens are dressing up as Batman and trying to help. Along come the Joker and Harvey Dent. Suddenly, in Gotham, the Joker has turned Batman into a villain, of sorts, and Harvey Dent has taken the role of hero. Batman, in Gotham's mind, was pushed aside, and that was evidenced by the fact that they were all so willing to have Batman surrender and give in.

Re: Rachel's effect...

Spoiler

Rachel's death was supposed to effect Batman more. That was the Joker's plan all along. He lays it out perfectly when he is hanging upside-down...he killed Rachel to make sure he had a back-up plan in case Batman, and the citizens on the boat, failed him. He needed to drive someone so far over the edge that they would aid him in introducing a bit of anarchy into the city. Dent was that character, and the Joker knew it. The Joker knew that, of the two (Batman and Dent), Batman was "truly incorruptable." Batman was emotionless because he had to be in order to remain Batman. Batman showed his emotions in the interrogation scene and the Joker almsot won - almost made him break his one rule. But Batman is above that level. Rachel's death effected Bruce Wayne because Bruce Wayne has limits, feelings, emotions. As Batman, though, it didn't show, minus the "You Weren't" line he delivers to Dent about losing everything.

Dent, on the other hand, had limits and had emotions. Dent was the strongest of them, as Batman says, but he was also the most vulnerable. Gordon was able to protect his family by faking his death. Batman doesn't break and doesn't let himself get vulnerable. Dent was a man hanging onto the edge by a single finger and Rachel's death was the last straw. Everything was ripped away from him by the Joker in that explosion - Rachel, his appearance, his plans, his life. Batman lost the love of his life, but Batman had more to hold on to. Batman had already experienced loss with the death of his parents and he turned that around into Batman. Rachel's death was another in the long line of tragedies that happen in Batman/Bruce's life, but as Batman, Bruce Wayne can turn that loss into more.

Its not nice going all Charles Xavier on people typing out their thoughts word for word.:wink: Seriously though, your interpretation of events mirrors mine exactly. Its cool when you see that someone is really watching the same movie you are.