The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

[USF11]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

i believe there was a logic the fact that rachel had been threaten might had pushed him towards the edge a bit plus i dont think he was going to kill him anyways, the coin was heads on both sides and was probably trying to scared the kid

What I mean is the fact when someone loses it and goes crazy, theres no longer "logic" in that persons actions.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

What I mean is the fact when someone loses it and goes crazy, theres no longer "logic" in that persons actions.

There was still logic to his actions, they just seemed illogical to the audience.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

Oldman "confirms" a video game

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[cam9219]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

If the game is any good, it would likely be the best movie-game combo ever.

[SPTO]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

I just came back from the movie

WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm speechless! That was the single greatest comic book movie ever. In fact, it's on a par with some of the best crime/dramas i've seen in the last 20 years. It felt like a Graphic Novel put to life in all the right ways.

Heath Ledger was truly amazing to watch. I wanted to see more of him. It's a shame he died as I truly think the dynamic between he and Bale was electric. I think the Joker character should be retired from making any more appearances in any Batman related movie from now on as there's no way in hell anyone can come as close to Ledger. He pulled off the insanity without being over the top. I also liked how he used Nicholson's vocalization as the basis for his Joker voice.

Ledger gave Joker so much vitality especially with his little ticks such as the gesticulations and using his tongue to wet his lips. He was both terrifying in the deepest most psychological ways yet humorous in macabre ways as well. It's a fine line trying to play an insane criminal genius but Ledger did it and his portrayal was very much the way I picture Joker as being. Ledger definitely deserves at LEAST an Oscar nomination. I'd say that even if he was still alive.

Aaron Eckhart hit all the right notes as Harvey Dent and in a small way I had to feel sorry for him. This is one of the more difficult things to convey in film with Batman's Rogues Gallery but by golly they hit the nail on the head with Dent. They gave Dent the right mixture of cockiness and vulnerability.

As for the plot of the movie...You guys weren't kidding about having tons of things going on. My father thought it got a little confusing but I didn't as i'm used to the pacing of a Graphic Novel and how there can be tons of things going on. There were a lot of scenes and action sequences that are going to stick with me for a long time to come. I honestly think Chris and Jonathon Nolan should get some nominations for the script as they did a fine job of juggling all the different plot elements and as far as I can tell there wasn't very many loose threads or illogical story twists.

I give this movie an A+++++ rating. Honestly I don't see any other comic book movie coming anywhere close to this one EVER.

[Sting]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

So damn true

But did anyone mention how annoying Batman's voice was?

That's the 1st thing I noticed in the movie, and it's what I took away from the movie as well. At work the next morning (a bunch of co-workers went and saw it together), the voice of Batman was the buzz throughout the entire office, and it wasn't a good buzz.


Ledger ROCKED that movie!!!

[SPTO]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

Eh, the "batman voice" didn't bother me too much. It was really irritating at first but I got used to it. I do think Bale needs to ratchet it down a bit. Something between his Bruce voice and Batman voice would work.

[Gamecock]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

Did anyone find the courtroom scene rather...weird?

Like I honestly thought Dent was on the set of some corny court tv show especially when the man on the stand pulled out that weapon along with the cheering soon after as he was thwarted by Dent.

[ZB9]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

the interrogation scene was a great scene. It really shows the true characters of Batman and Joker

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[SPTO]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

Agreed, that and the scene where the mayor is a target in public were the best scenes of the entire movie.

Best action sequence was the armored car sequence.

[triplej96]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

Its in my top 3 movies all time not sure where in the 3 its at . I saw it again today!

[catcatch22]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

I guess I'm in the minority here but I don't think this movie is at all one of the best of all time.

It's definitely one of the best films this year. It's better than the first one and I thought the first one was excellent.

As comic book movies go, this one is the best I have seen.

I would have like to have seen more Two Face.

I agree the Joker is played wonderfully by Ledger.

[Hammerhunker]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

I guess I'm in the minority here but I don't think this movie is at all one of the best of all time.

It's definitely one of the best films this year. It's better than the first one and I thought the first one was excellent.

As comic book movies go, this one is the best I have seen.

I would have like to have seen more Two Face.

I agree the Joker is played wonderfully by Ledger.

I totally agree with all of you points. I believe if I knew more about the comic book plot lines I would have been able to analyze this movie better. Of course I know of the Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Catwomen, and have heard of Two Face.

I was mesmerized by the performance of Ledger.

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

For someone that seems to be a fan of Batman, and I could be completely wrong about that, you don't seem to appreciate how true-to-form this movie was.

Re: The Joker....

Spoiler

How many times in the comics and cartoons has Batman done that same exact thing to the Joker? Taken it so close to the edge, but just left him there for the cop because he can't break his one rule. He can't kill him, he can't become exactly what the Joker wants him to become because then he betrays the very thing that keeps Batman different, keeps him going. I can, off the top of my head, remember plenty of times where Batman and the Joker dueled, only to have Batman leave the Joker laying, laughing hysterically while the cops hauled him in. The fact that Noaln didn't break form and do something just for the sake of doing it is brilliant.

Re: Harvey Dent...

Spoiler

I'll start off with one thing: Harvey Dent is not one-dimensional, and this film showed that. Harvey Dent, even before the accident, was two people. They alluded to that with the fact that Dent was previously called Two-Face because while he was the White Knight, Gotham's one true hero and the man who could save the city...he was also something else. You could see it in the courtroom scene when he punches the guy on the witness stand, you could see it in the street scene with Jervis, and then when he screams at Batman.

Again, Nolan stuck true to form. Nolan didn't change Harvey Dent to be some over-the-top character. He was the perfect dual persona character. While he was Harvey Dent, he was the hero...but he was the hero with a dark side inside of him. He was a hero with two faces. Nolan stuck to the comic book and cartoon way of showing Dent's transformation by showing the respectable man lose control at certain points.

Re: Batman as a secondary character

Spoiler

That's exactly what he was supposed to be, and that is the true point that was brilliant about this movie. Batman, the main character in the universe, was turned into a secondary character. The Joker and Dent were the main focuses of the movie, while Batman and Bruce Wayne were pushed to the back. Why? Because that is exactly what Gotham was going through at the moment. At the beginning of the film, citizens are dressing up as Batman and trying to help. Along come the Joker and Harvey Dent. Suddenly, in Gotham, the Joker has turned Batman into a villain, of sorts, and Harvey Dent has taken the role of hero. Batman, in Gotham's mind, was pushed aside, and that was evidenced by the fact that they were all so willing to have Batman surrender and give in.

Re: Rachel's effect...

Spoiler

Rachel's death was supposed to effect Batman more. That was the Joker's plan all along. He lays it out perfectly when he is hanging upside-down...he killed Rachel to make sure he had a back-up plan in case Batman, and the citizens on the boat, failed him. He needed to drive someone so far over the edge that they would aid him in introducing a bit of anarchy into the city. Dent was that character, and the Joker knew it. The Joker knew that, of the two (Batman and Dent), Batman was "truly incorruptable." Batman was emotionless because he had to be in order to remain Batman. Batman showed his emotions in the interrogation scene and the Joker almsot won - almost made him break his one rule. But Batman is above that level. Rachel's death effected Bruce Wayne because Bruce Wayne has limits, feelings, emotions. As Batman, though, it didn't show, minus the "You Weren't" line he delivers to Dent about losing everything.

Dent, on the other hand, had limits and had emotions. Dent was the strongest of them, as Batman says, but he was also the most vulnerable. Gordon was able to protect his family by faking his death. Batman doesn't break and doesn't let himself get vulnerable. Dent was a man hanging onto the edge by a single finger and Rachel's death was the last straw. Everything was ripped away from him by the Joker in that explosion - Rachel, his appearance, his plans, his life. Batman lost the love of his life, but Batman had more to hold on to. Batman had already experienced loss with the death of his parents and he turned that around into Batman. Rachel's death was another in the long line of tragedies that happen in Batman/Bruce's life, but as Batman, Bruce Wayne can turn that loss into more.

Good analysis but I think you are really trying to convince yourself as well to me that you think this movie can do no wrong.

Firstly I get the fact that it's true to form to the comics but "comics" is the key word. This is a movie and changes have to be made to give it closure. Comics can be a continuing saga because there are an infinite # of issues that can deal with it. A movie is only 2 1\2 hours long. You need a payoff in some shape or form. I'm not saying the Joker should have met his demise in some fiery explosion but there should have been some type of closure that justifies your investment in the movie. Even in Empire Strikes Back at least there was a climatic scene of Han Solo being frozen to end the movie. There was no such thing in TDK. It was a manical villain just being arrested. It's like the shark in Jaws, after eating everybody, decides to swim away and the coast guard just follow it and the movie ends. Even if Nolan wanted Joker in the next movie he should have had at least a climatic scene like in Empire.

This is the same reason that comics can afford to delve into character development with Dent. They have lots of time to do so. Movies don't have that luxery. Batman and Wayne being left in the background was a major mistake because even if you don't consider Dent a boring character in the movie you have to admit he's a lot less interesting than Batman and the conflict between Dent and Gordon was given way too much emphasis when the movie should of concentrated on the Batman\Joker conflict. The more I think about it the more horrible the ending was. The viewer was given a fantastic duel between Batman\Joker and Nolan absolutely dropped the ball in the end. Also Batman was portrayed as a fallible human being in Begins where you cared what he did. In TDK he was a robotic and unfeeling "superhero" who growled. How that was an improvement is beyond me.

Dent's turn was swift and rushed yet we spend the last 15 minutes of the movie watching him turn manical and the Joker became an afterthought. I like to see in the comics where that happened. No one came to see the movie to watch Gordon and Dent have a psychological duel as the climax. Everybody wanted Batman and the Joker. Nolan could of shown Dent transforming into Two Face in the movie's final scene and developed it more in the 3rd film, not hijack the ending just to complete Den't character arc.

To me rather than that being a comic bok ending it seemed more of a case of Nolan not knowing how to end it or how to figure out how to keep the Joker a possibility for the next film.

[Cebby]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

To me rather than that being a comic bok ending it seemed more of a case of Nolan not knowing how to end it or how to figure out how to keep the Joker a possibility for the next film.

I thought the ending was fantastic. Dent's end had more to do with setting up the third movie than ending the second. Did you honestly think Batman would kill the Joker? Really now?