The Great Global Warming Swindle

[TheMatrix31]

Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

RDM, sweet avatar, man!

As for the storms seemingly being stronger; That just isn't the case. As said before, we have no real record of what happened weather-wise hundreds of years ago.

[GeePee20]

Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

There is no harm with trying to prevent global warming. Hell, we can all benefit from it by saving money on gas by setting higher standards for MPG in our cars. It won't affect our lives in any way, except increase our bank accounts. All of Europe, Japan, China and many other wealthy states all have much higher standards for gas mileage.

And most importantly, shouldn't we rather be safe than sorry.

I am glad you brought up the idea that storms have gotten bigger. This just isnt the case. The storms have stayed the same its just that cities are becoming more populated.

What does that have to do with anything? So because cities are becoming more populated, hurricanes magically become larger and more frequent?

Its all about fear and votes.

Come back to me when Al Gore runs for office again.

This thread is just teeming with truthiness, I love it

[Spectre]

Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Interesting to see how the debate has unfolded and sadly it's as political as ever. Anywho let me preface my following comments as saying I generally believe that there is Global Warming. Is it all man made? Probably not but I still think it's credible.

1. Let's talk about the pop culture version of Global Warming for a moment. Under the view of pop culture and those who aren't inclined to study the phenomenon Global Warming just means we're all going to heat up and die from the runaway greenhouse effect a la Venus. In recent years (last 10-15 years) the effects of Global Warming have been viewed by the scientific community in quite a different way. One such view is that weather will become more eratic, go through wild swings etc etc. Just look at this winter as an example of this. The atmospheric conditions are very unsettled.

There are theories which propose that instead of us dying from the heat of global warming we'll continue to face wild and extreme weather which could lead to a deep freeze. This theory seems to have some creedence as the Jet Stream actually slowed to a crawl over the north atlantic waters which gave northern and central Europe some extreme cold, snow, and howling winds while most of North America was going through some very unseasonable warm weather. A visualization of this deep freeze theory can be found in the film THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW or if you want to go to the source material then pick up Art Bell and Whitley Streiber's THE COMING GLOBAL SUPERSTORM.

Another corolary to Global Warming is Global Dimming which addresses a question dossier asked about chemicals in the atmosphere. Atmospheric scientists have noticed (and i'm sure older folks on here too) that sunlight doesn't seem to be as bright as it used to be. This is because of CO2s in the atmosphere and such creating smog/haze that envelopes the planet. The scary thing about it? it seems that the more pollutants we pump out the more the haze/smog blocks out sunlight and keeps the planet warmer then it should be. So not only are we warming the planet but we're potentially blocking out one of the most important ingredients for life in sunlight.

2. About cycles, they're not 30 year cycles. That's way too small of a sample size for a planet that's been around for millions of years rather we should look at the overall picture. A few months ago TIME magazine did a story about how the Earth is the hottest it's been in thousands of years. Even that is too short of a span to look at because while it's true that it's hotter now then it has been in a few thousand years the media fails to mention that the Earth was in a mini ice age so obviously now that we're getting out of that ice age it's going to be hotter now then it was then! However, there is corresponding evidence that does show that while the warming may be natural we as humans are speeding it up. Temperatures have been skyrocketing with the introduction of the Industrial Age. The more pollutants we put into the atmosphere coincides with the increased temps. So it does seem that the warming trend is natural but we're pushing it like a maniacal driver on the highway.

3. Last but not least, without getting political about nuclear power you'll notice that environmentalists don't talk about it much, why? Because they know damn well that it's probably the safest and most efficient alternative form of energy on the planet but they've painted themselves in a corner by screaming for years about how nuclear power is dangerious and we'll see a North American Chernobyl. So they just stay mum on the topic of nuclear power and hopes it goes away.

Great post bro- geological cycles do not occur in spans of 30 years (as you said). For homeostatic machinery the size of this planet, it is just not possible for there to be such rapid "cycles".

[p2xgamers]

Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Was an interesting documentary, worth the watch. I'll post my thoughts later on. (about 3 AM here )

[marque1d]

Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

I put little to no stock in Global Warming being caused by the sun. Assuming you take a theory like the Big Band as being real and compare it to how long our sun would last the sun should stay very constant for the part of the Life Cycle it would be in.

And even with humans may having been around for a couple hundred thousand years and us being able to confidently account for things happening in the last 3 to 5 thousand years (minus all the ancient knowledge from the Library of Alexandria being loss do at organized religion) to think that global Industrialization over the past 150 years (or more like 75) would change the entire earths climate seems extremely far reaching.

As far as air quality and attributing our use of fossil fuels to poor health and the negative effects on our ecosystems is still the number 1 priority in my book. There should never be a debate about that. some of the variation in temperature we're seeing, if we are seeing any, to me is more of the earth's natural cycle.

And about Nuclear energy, I don't find it as feasible as it is often promoted. First and foremost is that it has been and still is heavily subsidized by the worlds Governments. Almost all of the advancements have come on the tab of Government funded research. And are we at the point where the technology has matured enough to where Private companies could work with what is out there, possibly. However, if the Long Run ROI (Return on Investment) and now that we don't fear a big accident as much as in the pass; the Energy Companies would be lining up left and right to request building new Nuclear Plants over more Coal Plants. And I realize that it's much much much more cheaper even with the grand scale and heavy regulations for companies to just dig in the side of a mountain for coal or have BP, ExxonMobil, and Royal Dutch Shell drill in the Middle East, deep ocean or wherever for oil. But with Nuclear, think about what kind of Start Up, Insurance, Operation, Storage, and Disposal cost that would be needed to make it a viable alternative. We can scream about the environmental benefits all we want but if we can't really find a way to pay for the alternative, then it's not going to happen. And Im sure someone will bring up France, well considering that they have basically one energy company that just so happens to be almost entirely owned by the Government, they aren't the finest example of making Nuclear Energy work in a capitalist society.

And the comment about the Exxon Valdez oil spill, i guess all the land animals, birds, fish, and plant life got broken down and DIED too. I would imagine that the ocean is able to handle natural oil contamination but not at the surface in a isolated spot. Exxon had to spend a whole lot of money to clean up that not so little mess that they made. Luckily they didn't get a pass and just let the ocean dilute all the foreign "natural" substance. To suggest that that's environmentalist being extremest is ridiculous.

And YES we have a huge effect on this plant in the way that we inhabit it and exploit its natural resources. And while I don't think what we are doing can change the whole earth's climate, we still are contributing to very dismal effects on the earth and our environment. The water table is dropping around the world due to our use of land, demand from 6.5 billion people and it's inefficient use in factories. Places that were once a forest or even a prairie are now covered in concrete. Of course things aren't going to work the same. I think they could be a factor right there. The atmosphere probably has to retain heat because less of the ground is available to absorb it.

[daflyboys]

Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

And the comment about the Exxon Valdez oil spill, i guess all the land animals, birds, fish, and plant life got broken down and DIED too. I would imagine that the ocean is able to handle natural oil contamination but not at the surface in a isolated spot. Exxon had to spend a whole lot of money to clean up that not so little mess that they made. Luckily they didn't get a pass and just let the ocean dilute all the foreign "natural" substance. To suggest that that's environmentalist being extremest is ridiculous.

I didn't say it was a fairly tale and "all the creatures of the Earth lived happily...", but you would think at the time that the was the CNN-ish reports were going, we were on the brink of destroying the world. I'm not insensitive to the loss of life, but this happened to be an unfortunate happening on a place where we happen to live as well. We could have a 1,000 Valdezes accidents at the same time and the planet would survive. If you read what I said as helping cleanup was being extremest....then you were up too late!:wink:

[daflyboys]

Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

There is no harm with trying to prevent global warming. Hell, we can all benefit from it by saving money on gas by setting higher standards for MPG in our cars. It won't affect our lives in any way, except increase our bank accounts. All of Europe, Japan, China and many other wealthy states all have much higher standards for gas mileage.

And most importantly, shouldn't we rather be safe than sorry.


What does that have to do with anything? So because cities are becoming more populated, hurricanes magically become larger and more frequent?


Come back to me when Al Gore runs for office again.

This thread is just teeming with truthiness, I love it

Gas Prices in Europe - European Gasoline and Diesel Prices
From James Martin,
Oct 6 2005
Find current gas prices in Europe and learn how to save money on gas
One of the big questions for budgeting a European vacation is the price of gas. In short, European prices are considerably higher than they are in America, about 2.3 x higher.
Make no mistake: the price of the raw gas is about the same as the U.S., but Europe taxes gasoline at a higher rate. At the moment, taxes in France make up about 70 percent of the pump price. For comparison, the U.S. federal gasoline tax of of 2005 was 18.4 cents per gallon, with each State adding between 10 and 33 cents of tax, according to Widipedia. That makes the maximum gasoline tax rate 17% in the U.S.

Source: http://goeurope.about.com/od/transpo...gas_prices.htm

Uh, so explain to us kiddies again how Europeans higher standards for gas mileage means more money in their pockets.

As far as the hurricane's point.....you really don't get what he was saying? "If - Then" reasoning bro.

And IF Al Gore runs for president again, why exactly are we coming back to talk to you?

[mjb2124]

Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Is there a question of the factual existence of the OZONE LAYER...

Then how does one explain the melting of the polar ice caps in Mars?

It obviously has nothing to do with humans destroying the Ozone in Mars (if Mars even has an Ozone).

[mjb2124]

Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Personally, I've stated my opinion on what I believe already - that being that I think the truth lies in between Global Warming and the notion that no harm is being done.

However, if I want to buy a gas guzzling 350HP sports car or big SUV that I know isn't as good for the environment as a Hybrid, I'm going to buy that car. Sure, gas might cost more on those cars compared to a Hybrid, but honestly, spending $50 or $100 per week on gas isn't an issue for some. The way I see it, we're on this Earth for a very short time and personally, I'm going to enjoy that time as much as I can and have the toys that I want.

[Hootiefish]

Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Sorry, boys and girls, but we really can't damage this planet. It all goes in cycles it would seem. Temperatures, animal species, ozone layers.

We have already shown that what we do has an impact on ozone layers. As for animal species, you have got to be kidding yourself if you don't believe that we as humans have had a tremendous effect on what animals have gone extinct or endangered. In fact, we as a planet are going through a mass extinction event as we speak, which can be directly attributed to the expansion of human civilization and the effects thereof. The current mass extinction is not cyclical, as some would like to believe. The elimination of many species can be DIRECTLY attributed to overhunting, degradation of habitat, introduction of unnatural species, etc. All that needs to be done is a little research on that subject to see that you are dead wrong.

And as for global warming, again, why is it so bad to be safe about the subject? No one can answer that question. If you are right, then great, you managed to be a good person and take care of the planet in which you lived. But if you are wrong, then you prevented irreversable changes to our planet's life. What is so bad about that?

And what if you are wrong all together and don't do anything or make any changes? What about your kids or grandkids? Don't you care enough about the future to make some changes today?

[Hootiefish]

Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Personally, I've stated my opinion on what I believe already - that being that I think the truth lies in between Global Warming and the notion that no harm is being done.

However, if I want to buy a gas guzzling 350HP sports car or big SUV that I know isn't as good for the environment as a Hybrid, I'm going to buy that car. Sure, gas might cost more on those cars compared to a Hybrid, but honestly, spending $50 or $100 per week on gas isn't an issue for some. The way I see it, we're on this Earth for a very short time and personally, I'm going to enjoy that time as much as I can and have the toys that I want.

Which is quite selfish for the one's that come after you, if you are wrong about your opinion.

[larrygiterdone]

Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

im all about global warming, just imagine 70 to 80 degrees in the peak of winter

it will bring nastier weather, so what, i will take my chances for warmer temperatures

the water level may rise causing floods, so what, you can always move

[Hootiefish]

Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

im all about global warming, just imagine 70 to 80 degrees in the peak of winter

it will bring nastier weather, so what, i will take my chances for warmer temperatures

the water level may rise causing floods, so what, you can always move

Wow. I hope you are kidding. Wow.

[larrygiterdone]

Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Wow. I hope you are kidding. Wow.

nope

[Hootiefish]

Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

nope

Then obviously the implications of a full-fledged global warming are a little too complicated for you to understand.