The Dark Knight Rises

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  • Cj7298419
    Pro
    • Jun 2003
    • 983

    #2356
    Re: The Dark Knight Rises

    Originally posted by Kashanova
    9/10

    Spoiler
    Haha! Agreed, they butchered it in the final version.
    Huge Fan of the New Orleans Saints & New Orleans Pelicans!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Comment

    • DickDalewood
      All Star
      • Aug 2010
      • 6263

      #2357
      Re: The Dark Knight Rises

      My wife loved his voice. I quote, "It was soooo sexy."

      Comment

      • Blzer
        Resident film pundit
        • Mar 2004
        • 42517

        #2358
        Re: The Dark Knight Rises

        Okay, I am now awake enough and free enough to leave some impressions. As you know, I like to be spoiler-free to give people more or less a "review" of what this kind of film was like, both logically and technically, and later discussions are where the spoiler comments are made (much like I did earlier). So be ready, because this will not be brief.

        To start off, this film feels much more like Batman Begins than The Dark Knight. I honestly had no sense of this film feeling like TDK other than both had "prologues." In fact, even though the score used more tracks from TDK than BB, the way the score was implemented in the film felt most like how Nolan used it in Inception. Story-wise, it also felt more similar to BB, and this might have been a problem. I think he tried to go back to the first part rather than build on the second (TDK), which in my opinion was a mistake. You need it a little bit for the trilogy aspects if that makes sense, but there were times when I almost felt TDK was forgotten.

        There are some sequences in this film that kind of act "montage" style, where the score might carry through three or four brief scenes at a time. In my opinion, where this worked really well in Inception, it should have worked well here, but the problem was that these scenes would have been much better if they dragged out as their own independent scenes. I would consider the first hour of this film's momentum to be cinematic, not narrative. IMO this is not an example of good film-writing. He hadn't done this before, and the first time that he does I think it fell flat on its face. Had he reworked it, I think the first hour would have held up much stronger than it did.

        Speaking of which, this film's length did not bear any weight on my shoulders. Want to make this film an 45 minutes by stretching out content? That is completely fine by me. This is your last Batman film, Christopher. I know that some fans won't appreciate too long of a length, but I know that your theatrical cut is always your final cut. Any chance you had an extended cut, not to add scenes but to stretch out those "montage" scenes? This would be great.

        Okay, I saw this film in standard 15/70 IMAX. I didn't have the best location (a bit closer than I hoped, pretty far to the right), so I don't know if this had any effect on the sound balance, but I felt the score to be pretty bombastic during good chunks of dialogue. Don't get me wrong, this is great during most action moments, but like Inception, if the theater isn't mixing the dialogue right, you might miss a lot of what they're saying. Nolan has to be more careful with this in the future. However, also like Inception, I'm sure this will be zero problem when I get my hands on the Blu-ray. Bane was pretty difficult to understand. Sometimes it was the bombastic score, sometimes it was his voice itself, and sometimes it's because you can't read his lips. Whatever it was, I would still very much like to see what this film would have been like with his original voice in place (the one that the original prologue featured). I think it sounded much more sinister, and I have a feeling I would have been able to understand just as much.

        Back to IMAX: thrilling, beautiful, and enduring. When it opens up, your jaw drops. I think a lot of people believe I have a problem with shifting AR. I only have a problem with that on the Blu-ray, in that I wish there was the non-shifting option as well (and that they used the IMAX print for the other shots as well, leading to... yes... EE and DNR). In the theater, I'm seeing the IMAX version for the IMAX shots, so I have no problem there. The only thing I wish Nolan could have somehow achieved was making IMAX "scenes" instead of "shots." He does it every so often, but sometimes it dips back to 2.35:1. Sometimes it's the other way around, and you sit and wonder why it was shot in one format and not the other. Nothing too major, but it might get to you on the Blu-ray every so often.

        Onto the story. Its not much like BB's or TDK's. Of course there are many elements that remain the same, and the villains' motives of attacking Gotham will show many similarities, but from the outside looking in, you enter the film with no mob and a city without paranoia. It certainly lends to you feeling pessimistic about the rest of the film, not in terms of the film's quality, but because these are the highest of highs that Gotham has ever faced, so when things go awry, they feel really contrasting to the film's opening elements and tone. That said, I wouldn't really consider this film to be "dark" like the first two were. Emotionally stringing? Sure, but not very dark. Maybe it has something to do with seemingly fewer night scenes (particularly action scenes) than the first two films. Maybe it was because most scenes were filmed in New York and L.A. instead of Chicago. I don't know what it was, but I think it lacked a "Batman-y" feel that the first two films had. This could be good and bad, but for the most part I felt it was sour simply for its inconsistency with the first two films.

        So, our main cast: Bale, Oldman, Hardy, Hathaway, Caine, Gordon-Levitt, Cotillard, and Freeman. While I felt Bale, Caine, and the newcomers Hardy and Gordon-Levitt put on the performances of their lives, I think that Oldman and Freeman, while serving their roles particularly better than their worst performances IMO (Freeman in TDK, Oldman in BB), did not have the best written moments in this film to show as much as they did in their best performances. I thought Oldman was underused, and Freeman was undersold. Hathaway is a mixed bag, because I thought she was a great Selina Kyle, but her Catwoman turned me off during her dialogue scenes. She had some awful one-liners and she didn't have the best costume (mostly the mask). As we all know, I wasn't ever completely sold on Catwoman. While Nolan reminded me of exactly what would be a problem with her, he also proved me wrong. I just don't feel her purpose for the film was as strong as it could have been, prevalent as it was. Finally, Cotillard kind of fell in the same vein as Oldman and Freeman; good performance, but underexposed. Outside of them, I don't think I liked anyone else in the cast. Nolan has never been very good at casting side characters/extras with dialogue, and I think this is the case here as well. The only exception I will include is Tony Amen (for the sake of leaving out spoilers, I'm not mentioning which character he is). Otherwise, all side characters were story-driven and never character-driven, making any scenes when they weren't with Bruce. In fact, scenes between Bruce and Pennyworth, Bruce and Blake, Bruce and Kyle, Bruce and Tate, etc. were the best scenes in the film. Scenes between Batman and Catwoman, Batman and Gordon, Batman and Bane, etc. were okay, but could have been stronger in many aspects. Strengthening the hero side of the script would have redeemed most of those dialogue-heavy scenes.

        The only character I thought that was lacking in this film compared to the others was "Gotham." I know I mentioned it before about the lack of a "Batman-y" feel, and this was one of the reasons. No, this time I don't mean the shooting locations, but I mean the citizens of Gotham. It may be because the beginning emphasizes euphoria for the city and its inhabitants, but by the end of the film, you don't feel the people speaking their minds about Batman, Bane, or anything else on that level. Even the many action moments seem to just be "missing" citizens (although the football scene obvious has them, but even there it's not a packed house). Where this helped motivate Bruce in BB and TDK (especially TDK), I felt like it was a complete non-factor in TDKR. Obviously this meant he had to find motivation elsewhere, and I'm glad that they wrote it in... but since he was willingly ostracized at the end of TDK, I would have liked for this "Rise" aspect to be a moment of proving to its inhabitants why he chose the Batman icon. He may or may not have attempted to do that in the film itself, but it sure didn't show on the people's end. So as grand as everything was, this is where the film's scope felt a little smaller.

        The biggest positive out of this film is that I felt this is the first time in Nolan's last four films that the ending never had a single shred of "dragging." Not only that, but even though BB didn't have dragging issues at the end, it didn't really show that its ending was superior to the rest of the film, for instance. Well, The Dark Knight Rises features an ending that, as the trailers mentioned, was truly epic. I'm talking the last 45 minutes of the film, too. One a specific moment occurs, your eyes will glow as you watch the rest of the film play out. It's just that cool, and I give Nolan props for sequencing the last act and finishing off the film with a grand spectacle. He can almost do no wrong with Act 3 (despite, once again, a lack of "Gotham" responding to everything in the film).

        The story takes place eight years later, so the technology steps up a bit. Any trailer will tell you what pieces of technology you will see, but for the sake of keeping the non-trailer watchers at bay, I will say that I didn't care much for any new piece of technology in the film. They served their story purposes just fine, but even I thought that Nolan was more capable of handling how it was used than he did. I'll simply leave it at that. I don't think it was a mistake putting them in, but I think there could have been better ways to go about it all. TDK had these issues as well, but aside from the sonar concept, they weren't too heavily emphasized. As far as the story's timeline, I do wish that was a bit more emphasized as well. The fact that they only slip in "eight years since Batman" in some random conversation at only one point is indication enough that they didn't really work hard on keeping audiences intact with its own timeline. Sometimes Nolan uses this device for specific reasons (you can see all of these reasons in The Prestige and Inception, for instance), but this time, the non-flashback time gaps were not very declarative at all. You might as well think they took place in the same hour until you piece it together.

        I don't really know what else to clue into other than this film has a lot of action. I don't just mean fighting scenes, but scenes that traverse from one area to another or that involve a measure of pursuit. This was actually more tiresome in the first half of the film than it was in the last half, because it felt very "forced," like Nolan had to make sure that his audience was still paying attention to the film so he included them. Some will find it good, others not so much. Just take it for what its worth, but there is plenty of action. Not all of it is jaw-dropping, but a few of the trilogy's best highs are in its action set pieces. I know jmood wasn't too impressed with the hand combat choreography, but given what we've seen in the previous two films (aside from Batman and Ra's in BB), I don't really see how anyone can complain too much. Bane felt massive, and Catwoman's agility felt very believable, save two unneeded stunts. I thought this film had the weakest new score, but the old tracks that were used was every bit as awesome. Most ironically, as loud as Nolan makes films, I think his silent "non-score" scenes were of the most impacting ones in the film. There is even an action scene with very little [if no] music, and it was one of my favorites.

        So, there you go. This gives you a good non-spoiler idea of the highs and lows of the movie. In the end, I loved it. I really did. Maybe it's more because of the films and elements which preceded it so I naturally had to love it, but Nolan really didn't miss in the grand scheme of things with his end piece. I think a lot of parts were easily re-writable or extendable, which is an irk because you can see them clear as day. Outside of that and some of the technology, I think he really kept within himself and wrote a solid conclusion within the story. Many people won't like this because they might feel it needs to top The Dark Knight. And, like myself, this was the most anticipated film since The Dark Knight. That said, I think "underwhelmed" will be a popular term that's thrown around here. I don't think that is meant in a way that they find the film bad. It's just so tough to go above and beyond The Dark Knight, and IMO Nolan didn't try to. He tried to find grounded roots from Batman Begins, and adapt them from the story which has already been told, further into the future. Was this the best direction? Many would disagree, simply because of the villain choice. I liked Bane, even though I was hoping for that original voice. I thought the choice made sense, and though his background could have been more thorough, he was a fun physical match for Batman.

        It still stands as my favorite film of the year, and IMO the major difference between this film and TDK is that I think TDK had a chance at taking some major Oscar bids. I don't think this film has the same screenplay, cinematography, or directing/editing strength to be nominated. Outside of all that, I admired Nolan's ambition in this film very much, and am very glad at how it ended. I think most people will feel the same way. Those who don't will try and seek "plot holes," and IMO there aren't really that many that can't be explained/conjectured in some way or another, specifically in the latter half of the film. In that regard, I think people can ultimately end up complacent with this product, if anything else. It will be very tough to hate the film or be polarized in any way, which is good enough for me.

        Can't wait to see this again in the next couple of days, and get the novel on Tuesday!


        EDIT: By the way, for those who are skeptical about watching trailers and TV spots, I would still recommend that you don't see them. I don't think they reveal too much, but I will admit that most of the major set pieces in this film are seen in at least one vein or another in any one of the trailers (except for two specific scenes that I can think of). The main plot, scheme, and motivations are hidden in every preview, which is great... but if you don't want to sit in the theater and think to yourself: "When is this scene/piece of dialogue in this scene going to pop up?" you might be doing a disservice to yourself in fully paying attention to the current scene which you're watching. It is also worth noting that some specific dialogue (or ways that it's said) is also changed around, so sometimes you might expect something that won't come up at all. At the same time, some scenes which look like a major event in the film will, as I said before, only show up in "montage" form, which may or may not be disappointing. Trying to predict an ending to this film's plot is impossible, because you don't actually know the plot, which is always the best way to make your trailers. Anyway, I think thaima1shu will have the most fun watching this film since he hasn't seen anything yet. I also think this film will be much more appreciated by the naysayers the second time around.
        Last edited by Blzer; 07-22-2012, 09:34 AM.
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        • mgoblue678
          MVP
          • Jul 2008
          • 3371

          #2359
          Re: The Dark Knight Rises

          Just got back from seeing this, I enjoyed it, but not quite as much as The Dark Knight. I would probably give it an 8.5/10. The biggest complaint I have is that Bane's voice sounded a bit overdone/lame to me and it was hard to understand him at times. I am somebody with extremely good hearing, so it wasn't an issue on my end in terms of trying to understand him. The action scenes were pretty good(the hand-hand combat was the best in the series IMO) and the story was interesting enough. The twist of
          Spoiler
          was anti-climatic though, as I could see it coming a mile away. The twist
          Spoiler
          was a little more interesting. Not sure how I feel about the final twist quite yet.

          Overall I went into the movie expecting it to be pretty good, but not quite reach the level of enjoyment I got from the Dark Knight. I basically got what I expected going in, and would rank it behind The Dark Knight as my second favorite superhero movie.
          Last edited by mgoblue678; 07-21-2012, 04:05 PM.
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          • Blzer
            Resident film pundit
            • Mar 2004
            • 42517

            #2360
            Re: The Dark Knight Rises

            Originally posted by mgoblue678
            The twist
            Spoiler
            was a little more interesting. Not sure how I feel about the final twist quite yet.
            If it helps...

            Spoiler
            Last edited by Blzer; 07-21-2012, 04:24 PM.
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            • mgoblue678
              MVP
              • Jul 2008
              • 3371

              #2361
              Re: The Dark Knight Rises

              Originally posted by Blzer
              If it helps...

              Spoiler
              True, my spoiler tag really should have said
              Spoiler
              Your right, that is what Bruce envisioned. I liked that little twist , so no issue either way for me. My uncertainty with the final twist, in terms of whether I like it or not really had nothing to do
              Spoiler
              . I am just torn on whether it would of had more impact if he had actually
              Spoiler
              .
              Last edited by mgoblue678; 07-21-2012, 04:11 PM.
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              • goh
                Banned
                • Aug 2003
                • 20755

                #2362
                Re: The Dark Knight Rises

                Originally posted by franch1se
                Admittedly I'm not the worlds biggest batman fan but....


                Spoiler
                Spoiler

                Comment

                • Kashanova
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Aug 2003
                  • 12695

                  #2363
                  Re: The Dark Knight Rises

                  So seeing this movie with the trilogy marathon Had me thinking what were the best moments for you guys from each of the movies

                  I'll list mine in spoilers

                  Spoiler

                  Comment

                  • TheShizNo1
                    Asst 2 the Comm Manager
                    • Mar 2007
                    • 26341

                    #2364
                    Why are there spoilers if the movie has already come out?
                    Originally posted by Mo
                    Just once I'd like to be the one they call a jerk off.
                    Originally posted by Mo
                    You underestimate my laziness
                    Originally posted by Mo
                    **** ya


                    ...

                    Comment

                    • Blzer
                      Resident film pundit
                      • Mar 2004
                      • 42517

                      #2365
                      Re: The Dark Knight Rises

                      I think my favorite moments were very subtle in defining the entire point of each of their respective films:

                      Spoiler
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                      • Blzer
                        Resident film pundit
                        • Mar 2004
                        • 42517

                        #2366
                        Re: The Dark Knight Rises

                        Originally posted by TheShizNo1
                        Why are there spoilers if the movie has already come out?
                        Some people might want to venture in this thread and see spoiler-free impressions, like I left. IMO it's just the right way to go.

                        Plus, I don't know if it's been released worldwide yet.
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                        • Blzer
                          Resident film pundit
                          • Mar 2004
                          • 42517

                          #2367
                          Re: The Dark Knight Rises

                          Originally posted by mgoblue678
                          True, my spoiler tag really should have said
                          Spoiler
                          Your right, that is what Bruce envisioned. I liked that little twist , so no issue either way for me. My uncertainty with the final twist, in terms of whether I like it or not really had nothing to do
                          Spoiler
                          . I am just torn on whether it would of had more impact if he had actually
                          Spoiler
                          .
                          Spoiler
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                          • Kashanova
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Aug 2003
                            • 12695

                            #2368
                            Re: The Dark Knight Rises

                            Originally posted by Blzer
                            I think my favorite moments were very subtle in defining the entire point of each of their respective films:

                            Spoiler
                            Spoiler

                            Comment

                            • Altimus
                              Chelsea, Assemble!
                              • Nov 2004
                              • 27283

                              #2369
                              Anyone posting spoilers and not tagging them as will be sent to the OS Pit but there will be no RISE.

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                              • Fresh Tendrils
                                Strike Hard and Fade Away
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 36131

                                #2370
                                Re: The Dark Knight Rises

                                FYI, I spent about over an hour typing **** out and I lost it all so here we go again:

                                If it wasn't for my brother being with me, I would still be sitting at the theater staring at the screen. It isn't so much this movie as it is this whole series. What Marvel has done and is doing is cool and great for comic book properties, but Nolan really does make those films look like child's play. Nolan crafted something that truly transcends its source material and made legitimate films. He didn't pander and he didn't stoop. He told his interpretation of the character and his universe like every other great comic book writer has done with Batman. It was a fantastic ride, too. Throughout there are plenty of logic and logistic problems that threaten to take you out of that universe and out of sync with its characters, but most of the time Hans Zimmer's thunderous score and Wally Pfister's beautiful cinematography comes along to sweep you away with the film. The problems don't simply disappear, but damn the ride is so enjoyable and the performances so enthralling that a lot of the problems are simply swept under the rug and ignored.

                                Overall I feel like Rises is right in middle of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. Honestly, a lot of the movie is on par with TDK, but there are some sequences and storyline aspects that drop back down to Batman Begins act three levels. Anyway, I'm going to spoiler my thoughts as I don't want to risk ruining anything or try and censor myself by not talking specifically about certain parts.

                                Wall of text incoming...
                                Spoiler


                                TDKR has more in common with Batman Begins than with TDK, though Nolan tries to balance them out. The problems I see in TDKR are present in all of the movies and while these problems are slightly larger in Rises than TDK, ultimately it doesn't hold me back from enjoying the hell out of this movie. The themes Nolan explored in each movie and across the series were great and really pushed Bruce Wayne to forefront as a character rather than being about Batman.


                                I don't think Dent returning would have been compelling simply because Dent was exacting his justice as opposed to falling in with “mob rule.” Bats could have swept him up in two seconds as I just don't see Dent recruiting goons. I'm also glad Nolan didn't hammer home the themes from previous films other than the series arcing themes.



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