*** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

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  • Coug00
    LOB
    • Jul 2002
    • 3476

    #361
    Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

    Originally posted by fistofrage
    I don't think thats the case, when we last saw the Losties, they were most likely hundreds of years in the past before there was a well right? Unless they flashed since then. I think that flash in the plane was a time jump.

    Here's the other thing I don't get........

    Jin is a time traveler, right? I mean he flashies through time with the rest of the Losties.

    For Jin to be part of the Dharma intitiative, the Losties would have had to flash into the Dharma time period and then Jin would have had to have time to assimilate into Dharma. Either way, this process would take time.

    Jack, Hurley, and Bugs Bunny can't be just visiting a point in time of "When" and seeing Jin because Jin isn't a "When", he's a traveler. So what I am saying is that if they are seeing Jin the Dharma guy, there must also be a Jin the Lostie on the island at the same time.

    Doesn't make sense.
    This is why I believe Locke fixed the jumps, but they are not in current time. Don't forget once he supposedly fixed the wheel it flashed one last time, which probably moved them from the time when the well wasn't there to when Dharma was on the island.

    When all of that was going on, it was 3 years in the past compared to when O6 got on the plane to get back to the island. Three years, assuming Island time elapses the same as non-island time, is plenty of time for Jin to become part of the Dharma initiative.

    So I think when the O6 flew through the window they jumped to the island's time, where Jin had already been existing for 3 years.
    Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

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    • soltrain
      The Batman
      • Feb 2003
      • 6863

      #362
      Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

      Originally posted by fistofrage
      I don't think thats the case, when we last saw the Losties, they were most likely hundreds of years in the past before there was a well right? Unless they flashed since then. I think that flash in the plane was a time jump.

      Here's the other thing I don't get........

      Jin is a time traveler, right? I mean he flashies through time with the rest of the Losties.

      For Jin to be part of the Dharma intitiative, the Losties would have had to flash into the Dharma time period and then Jin would have had to have time to assimilate into Dharma. Either way, this process would take time.

      Jack, Hurley, and Bugs Bunny can't be just visiting a point in time of "When" and seeing Jin because Jin isn't a "When", he's a traveler. So what I am saying is that if they are seeing Jin the Dharma guy, there must also be a Jin the Lostie on the island at the same time.

      Doesn't make sense.
      It's possible they aren't traveling anymore because the FDW was spun again by Locke, causing them now to be LOCKED in a time.
      Michigan Wolverines
      Chicago White Sox

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      • fistofrage
        Hall Of Fame
        • Aug 2002
        • 13682

        #363
        Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

        Originally posted by soltrain
        It's possible they aren't traveling anymore because the FDW was spun again by Locke, causing them now to be LOCKED in a time.
        Its possible, but here's what I'm saying. Jin is a Lostie traveling through time. So if they played "Wheel of Time" and landed and Locked it in 1978 or whenever Dharma was flourishing on the island, then Jin would have had to infiltrate the Dharma intitiative and earn their trust, etc.

        I may not explaining this right, but if Jack & crew just landed in 1978, they can't be viewing a Jin who had naturally been part of Dharma. They have to viewing a Jin that infiltrated Dharma since the last flash and has a knowledge of Jack, Hurley and the rest from the future. Otherwise they would 2 Jins on the island at once. One that was naturally part of the Dharma initiative and one who is traveling through time with Sawyer, Smirkella and Faraday.
        Chalepa Ta Kala.....

        Comment

        • CMH
          Making you famous
          • Oct 2002
          • 26203

          #364
          Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

          Maybe I'm not understanding. But, that is definitely Jin, the one and only Jin. Showing him in DHARMA clothes is probably a confirmation that the Island jumped to a time when the DHARMA Initiative was in operation at the Island. Hence the working van.

          There is some confusion, however. So I agree with what's bothering you. Eloise said that the Island is always moving and finding it isn't the huge issue, it's finding out what when. So, the Island was set to move at exactly the same time the plane flew over a specific area. If the Island was moving, it was moving to another time, right? That's pretty much what Eloise said. It moves and we need to find out to what when it moves to.

          So, Jin being in DHARMA clothes and driving the van does not make perfect sense. He should have gone through a time jump along with the Oceanic 6.

          UNLESS, and this is a huge unless that might explain why Alpert never ages (and why Faraday was present during the initial reveal of the Donkey Wheel), unless when the Island moves and moves to another when, everyone is still moving in the same space and unaware of it's movement. What was happening before, with the time jumps, was a result of the wheel being dislodged.

          There is a time issue on the Island. Faraday showed that in S4 with the flying rocket from the beach craft or helicopter (I forget where it took off from). Perhaps, that is what's happening here?

          I'm thinking that we don't really know. I don't think it's a writing error. There is still a lot dealing with time that has not been explained. We're being fed this confusion so that once we get the answer we can look back and say, "Oh, I get it now."
          "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

          "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

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          • fistofrage
            Hall Of Fame
            • Aug 2002
            • 13682

            #365
            Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

            Originally posted by YankeePride

            I'm thinking that we don't really know. I don't think it's a writing error. There is still a lot dealing with time that has not been explained. We're being fed this confusion so that once we get the answer we can look back and say, "Oh, I get it now."
            I'd like to think so, but I have a feeling that the 2 jokers that write this stuff are going to use the line that some things can't be explained and that will be that.

            We have no choice but to see how it plays out but its starting to look like there are multiple layers of history living and breathing beneath the surface of the actual present time line.

            If thats the case you are dealing more in dimensions.

            Lets say that Jin goes back to 1970 and infiltrates Darma.....That is one layer of the past that is happening.

            Lets say Jin goes back to 1970 and dies by drowning before he comes into contact with Dharma.

            Depending on what point you went to there would be alternate historys occuring.

            I know that isn't the case because Rousseau recognized the disappearance of Jin, but they'll have some explaining to do if Jin doesn't immediately recognize, Doc, Bugs, and the Michelin Man.
            Chalepa Ta Kala.....

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            • ehh
              Hall Of Fame
              • Mar 2003
              • 28960

              #366
              Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

              Anyone else a lil surprised that not one member of the O6 asked Ben what in the flying hell happened to his face when he got on the plane?
              "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

              "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

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              • fistofrage
                Hall Of Fame
                • Aug 2002
                • 13682

                #367
                Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

                Originally posted by ehh
                Anyone else a lil surprised that not one member of the O6 asked Ben what in the flying hell happened to his face when he got on the plane?
                Yeah. Or why is Ben even on the plane to begin with. Didn't they say once he turned the wheel he couldn't ever come back?

                Or why when they said they have to recreate everything as close as possible they didn't search for Walt.

                Or if Kate is supposed to be pregnant to take the place of Claire, why leave it a chance encounter with Doc. Ben has connections with Doctors. Envitro if it was truly a variable.

                The thing that is totally befuddling about this is with all the monetary resources that Ben had when they showed in his hidden bunker. With the ageless Alpert appearing to be traveling at will, with hidden bunkers under churches and a network of people worldwide. Why does this appear to be such a rag tag operation to get back to the island. Why use a commercial airliner? That island has a pretty big radius as was seen by pulling Jin into the flashes. Seems like it would be easier to find than hoping that a commercial flight would happen to cross its path.
                Chalepa Ta Kala.....

                Comment

                • JohnnytheSkin
                  All Star
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 5914

                  #368
                  Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

                  Originally posted by fistofrage
                  I'd like to think so, but I have a feeling that the 2 jokers that write this stuff are going to use the line that some things can't be explained and that will be that.
                  As I mentioned, I don't like to tell people constantly *****ing to stop watching a show, but seriously...

                  FISTOFRAGE! STOP WATCHING THE ******* SHOW!

                  If you aren't patient enough to wait, watch, and learn, then stop watching. Come back in two years, if you are still interested, watch the whole series, and then say how the writers f-ed it up, or left too many holes, or what have you.

                  You thought Ben's "reading" was a plot hole or writers oversight, you think there are multiple Jin's running around, or Ben on the plane (remember, it was LOCKE's job to turn the wheel as Christian said two weeks ago, yet Ben did it), etc, etc.

                  Seriously man, if you have questions, pour over Lostpedia or something...they cover things in more depth than you can imagine. Or, stop watching the show.

                  I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams

                  Oh, sorry...I got distracted by the internet. - Scott Pilgrim

                  Comment

                  • fistofrage
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Aug 2002
                    • 13682

                    #369
                    Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

                    Originally posted by JohnnytheSkin
                    As I mentioned, I don't like to tell people constantly *****ing to stop watching a show, but seriously...

                    FISTOFRAGE! STOP WATCHING THE ******* SHOW!

                    If you aren't patient enough to wait, watch, and learn, then stop watching. Come back in two years, if you are still interested, watch the whole series, and then say how the writers f-ed it up, or left too many holes, or what have you.

                    You thought Ben's "reading" was a plot hole or writers oversight, you think there are multiple Jin's running around, or Ben on the plane (remember, it was LOCKE's job to turn the wheel as Christian said two weeks ago, yet Ben did it), etc, etc.

                    Seriously man, if you have questions, pour over Lostpedia or something...they cover things in more depth than you can imagine. Or, stop watching the show.


                    Or put me on your ignore list.. Excuse me for posting in the lost thread.
                    Chalepa Ta Kala.....

                    Comment

                    • poster
                      All Star
                      • Nov 2003
                      • 7506

                      #370
                      Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

                      Interesting episode. No one asking Ben what happened to him, bothered the hell out of me as well. I have no idea at all as to why no one would ask, and I see no way that it can be shown later as to why no one did. Just odd, we'll see on that.

                      The explanation of the island was weak. I will have faith that the writers will tell us more, but I was pumped up for it and then let down after hearing what Eloise said. It was too simplistic and easy. I hope we learn more and soon.

                      They definitely tried to recreate past themes relating to the original flight. Some don't add up, but alot do. Not sure about the Ben and Penny theory. I almost like the "Ben got his *** kicked when trying" theory someone mentioned. Hurley and Sayid will be interesting to find out about.

                      Another thing that struck me was that someone (can't remember who) looked back into the coach seating section and you could see lots of "normal" people. If this is another plane crash, then lots of people are on board even though Hurley prevented it from being a full load. The new characters will be interesting to learn about.

                      I also thought back to the original plane crash. After finding out that the time the button was not pushed was on the same day as the plane crash, I assumed that was what caused 815 to crash?

                      After seeing what we saw last night, did the plane just hit one of these "pockets", or did the button not being pushed cause the crash. I guess the pocket is the electromagnetic energy. Maybe the button not being pushed cause the same sort of phenomenon?

                      Next week should be interesting. Like others, I just hope everything gets explained eventually.

                      Comment

                      • JohnnytheSkin
                        All Star
                        • Jul 2003
                        • 5914

                        #371
                        Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

                        Also, another addendum, anyone think that maybe, just maybe, the final season will include those old-fashioned 'LOST' flashbacks...if not flash forwards? Since this season has so far featured simultaneous stuff on and off island, maybe we'll return to the old established formula for the final 18 hours or so in Season Six?

                        Maebe I'm a fool...but I fully believe the writers, Cuse and Lindleloff, know where they are headed, where they always intended to be, and will finish this damn series off right.

                        Hell, the simple fact that the on-island folks were "stuck" in a time when Dharma was in it's hey-dey is great news to me, since all those questions of what, when, how the Dharma initiative existed will now be answered.

                        EDIT: Sorry, the Maebe = Maybe. I've been sick for the last few days and have watched far too many 'Arrested Development' episodes...another GREAT show sadly given up on due to the wonky scheduling by Fox (and the lack of a sense of humor among the majority viewing public).

                        EDIT #2: I only think the people in first class were affected. The planed didn't crash, IMO, and even if Lupidus is on the island again, the plane would have likely been on auto-pilot so the co-pilot could have easily taken over. The fact that the "Six" were all in first class, save two randoms, is the significant factor. It'll be interesting to explain how they all arrived w/o a crash or anything happening to the normal Dharma folks...really, who's going to make up the lie?
                        Last edited by JohnnytheSkin; 02-19-2009, 09:23 PM.
                        I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams

                        Oh, sorry...I got distracted by the internet. - Scott Pilgrim

                        Comment

                        • ASB37
                          MVP
                          • Feb 2003
                          • 2624

                          #372
                          Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

                          Originally posted by JohnnytheSkin

                          EDIT: Sorry, the Maebe = Maybe. I've been sick for the last few days and have watched far too many 'Arrested Development' episodes...another GREAT show sadly given up on due to the wonky scheduling by Fox (and the lack of a sense of humor among the majority viewing public).
                          Is that my cousin? Maebe?...Great show.

                          Man this episode was a roller coaster. Outside of being mildly disapointed with the explanation of the island I thought alot happened this episode. I was literally screaming at jack to open the letter, and screaming at the O6 to ask Ben why he was in a sling and beat up.

                          Also with next week's preview (spoilers for anyone who didn't catch it)

                          Spoiler
                          Go Yankees
                          Go Rangers
                          Go Giants


                          "You play to win the game."

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                          • JohnnytheSkin
                            All Star
                            • Jul 2003
                            • 5914

                            #373
                            Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

                            Originally posted by ASB37
                            Spoiler
                            While I didn't catch what's in your spoiler tag, I always assumed Locke would be on the island again in some form...and that next week would surely not be the last time we saw Terry O'Quinn on the show.

                            After all, if they recreated Flight 815, Christian Shephard appeared after being dead in the coffin, and surely Locke's coffin will be empty on the island as well, right?

                            My view is that Locke is now the face of "Jacob", whatever that means. Christian was it before, and now it's Locke...though he'll surely gloat over being right to Jack a few more times, considering his "suicide" note.
                            I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams

                            Oh, sorry...I got distracted by the internet. - Scott Pilgrim

                            Comment

                            • soltrain
                              The Batman
                              • Feb 2003
                              • 6863

                              #374
                              Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

                              Originally posted by poster
                              I also thought back to the original plane crash. After finding out that the time the button was not pushed was on the same day as the plane crash, I assumed that was what caused 815 to crash?

                              After seeing what we saw last night, did the plane just hit one of these "pockets", or did the button not being pushed cause the crash. I guess the pocket is the electromagnetic energy. Maybe the button not being pushed cause the same sort of phenomenon?

                              Next week should be interesting. Like others, I just hope everything gets explained eventually.


                              The plane "crashed" at probably the same time Locke was turning the wheel during "island time"
                              Michigan Wolverines
                              Chicago White Sox

                              Comment

                              • fistofrage
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Aug 2002
                                • 13682

                                #375
                                Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

                                Originally posted by soltrain
                                The plane "crashed" at probably the same time Locke was turning the wheel during "island time"

                                That's a good theory. Lets say thats true. Do you think that Ben sensed that and moved away from Jack so he wouldn't be next to Jack when they "awoke" so he could carry on his own agenda while Jack & Co. were pre-occupied?

                                Or just another coincidence.
                                Chalepa Ta Kala.....

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