* LOST: Season 5 Discussion*

**Pared** · 04-02-2009, 12:54 PM

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Originally posted by soltrain

Whose to say the "purge Ben" wasn't the smoke monster, and "real Ben" was hanging out in the temple for a while?

....what?

**soltrain** · 04-02-2009, 01:02 PM

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Originally posted by Pared

....what?

I'm not entirely sure, but you are correct that he wouldn't remember his father and would then not know that he wants him dead. Alpert takes Ben into the temple, which is where the smoke monster lives. It's possible (although not highly) that the smoke monster took the form of Ben during the purge, after it had been decided that Dharma was no longer worthy of the island. It's a long shot, but crazier things have happened in the show. We've seen the monster take on different forms.

Or maybe the smoke monster will just make Ben act all weird like he did with Danielle's crew.

**Pared** · 04-02-2009, 01:04 PM

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I still hate that whole "smoke monster" thing.

What forms has the SM taken? I always thought it was just.. the smoke monster... ?

**Coug00** · 04-02-2009, 01:09 PM

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Originally posted by Pared

I love how they explained that Ben would forget everything.... but how would he remember his father and want to kill him?

Alpert said he would just forget "this", so I'm assuming it was the shooting incident. He would remember everything prior to that.

What I love about the whole thing is that Sayid wanted to kill Ben and Jack wanted to let him die, which in turn led Ben to become the person they didn't want him to become.

As far as Fist asking why have Sayid shoot Ben when there could be other ways to get Ben injured and into the Temple. Remember Sayid is now a wanted man by Dharma and possibly by the Others (although since Ben isn't an Other yet, he's probably safe from them and Smokey). IMO, we have to be patient and see how the writers let this one play out.

**Money99** · 04-02-2009, 01:13 PM

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Originally posted by Coug00

Alpert said he would just forget "this", so I'm assuming it was the shooting incident. He would remember everything prior to that.

What I love about the whole thing is that Sayid wanted to kill Ben and Jack wanted to let him die, which in turn led Ben to become the person they didn't want him to become.

As far as Fist asking why have Sayid shoot Ben when there could be other ways to get Ben injured and into the Temple. Remember Sayid is now a wanted man by Dharma and possibly by the Others (although since Ben isn't an Other yet, he's probably safe from them and Smokey). IMO, we have to be patient and see how the writers let this one play out.

Which is precisely why I think this has all happened before one way or another.

**fistofrage** · 04-02-2009, 01:37 PM

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Originally posted by Coug00

Alpert said he would just forget "this", so I'm assuming it was the shooting incident. He would remember everything prior to that.

What I love about the whole thing is that Sayid wanted to kill Ben and Jack wanted to let him die, which in turn led Ben to become the person they didn't want him to become.

As far as Fist asking why have Sayid shoot Ben when there could be other ways to get Ben injured and into the Temple. Remember Sayid is now a wanted man by Dharma and possibly by the Others (although since Ben isn't an Other yet, he's probably safe from them and Smokey). IMO, we have to be patient and see how the writers let this one play out.

I more have a problem with the writing than the storyline with Sayid not killing him. As long as you are going to have a magical temple that heals all wounds, you might as well say it has resurrection powers to boot.

One thing I hope they reveal is how Alpert doesn't age. How he got to the island and how he got to the age he is now and apparantly just stopped.

**Coug00** · 04-02-2009, 03:13 PM

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Originally posted by fistofrage

I more have a problem with the writing than the storyline with Sayid not killing him. As long as you are going to have a magical temple that heals all wounds, you might as well say it has resurrection powers to boot.

One thing I hope they reveal is how Alpert doesn't age. How he got to the island and how he got to the age he is now and apparantly just stopped.

I think we'll get there. Why doesn't Alpert age, why did Ethan have super strength, why was Mikhail nearly invincible, why were Locke & Christian resurrected? They all tie into the temple some how. I think we'll eventually see Jack join the Others...he's beginning to become a lot more like Locke and accepting of the island's ways. Getting rid of his ego & control issues is the first step. And going back to Stranger in a Strange Land (which most people hated on here), I think that episode has huge fore shadowing with his tattoo from Achura, "He walks amongst us, but he's not one of us".

What I found interesting about last night, which maybe I'm just slow and missed it before, is that "the Others" in 1977 were led by Lilly and Charles. Richard said he didn't care, because he didn't answer to them. I'm wondering if the Dharma purge goes hand in hand with Ben becoming the Others leader and getting rid of Lilly & Charles.

**fistofrage** · 04-02-2009, 03:18 PM

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Originally posted by Coug00

I think we'll get there. Why doesn't Alpert age, why did Ethan have super strength, why was Mikhail nearly invincible, why were Locke & Christian resurrected? They all tie into the temple some how. I think we'll eventually see Jack join the Others...he's beginning to become a lot more like Locke and accepting of the island's ways. Getting rid of his ego & control issues is the first step. And going back to Stranger in a Strange Land (which most people hated on here), I think that episode has huge fore shadowing with his tattoo from Achura, "He walks amongst us, but he's not one of us".

What I found interesting about last night, which maybe I'm just slow and missed it before, is that "the Others" in 1977 were led by Lilly and Charles. Richard said he didn't care, because he didn't answer to them. I'm wondering if the Dharma purge goes hand in hand with Ben becoming the Others leader and getting rid of Lilly & Charles.

I remember the scene, but who are Lilly and Charles?

**Leon** · 04-02-2009, 03:23 PM

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Originally posted by fistofrage

I remember the scene, but who are Lilly and Charles?

I'm guessing Charles is Charles Widmore. Not sure about Lilly.

**fistofrage** · 04-02-2009, 03:34 PM

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Originally posted by Leon

I'm guessing Charles is Charles Widmore. Not sure about Lilly.

Thats what I thought too, that he was referring to Widmore, but Alpert was the leader in 1954 or at least a high ranking guy when Locke visited him and Widmore was an underling. Alpert also said to Locke that the leader selection was a very precise process.

So you guys might be right. Widmore seized control, Ben got him off the island and Widmore wants it back.

**CMH** · 04-02-2009, 03:35 PM

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Well, Miles basically explained what I was trying to say for pages much more simply.

Everything has already happened and they are now experiencing it. This is their present (though, it is the past), but this is Ben's past (though, it is Little Ben's present).

**CMH** · 04-02-2009, 03:36 PM

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Originally posted by fistofrage

Thats what I thought too, that he was referring to Widmore, but Alpert was the leader in 1954 or at least a high ranking guy when Locke visited him and Widmore was an underling. Alpert also said to Locke that the leader selection was a very precise process.

So you guys might be right. Widmore seized control, Ben got him off the island and Widmore wants it back.

Alpert has never been a leader, though. I never got that from him. He seems to be a consultant in some ways. Even when Ben was running around leading people, Alpert acted on his own. I bet it's the same situation now as it will be in the future.

**CMH** · 04-02-2009, 03:39 PM

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Also, the Other didn't say Lilly. He said Ellie. As in Eloise Hawking.

**Coug00** · 04-02-2009, 03:39 PM

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I was wrong...I just watched and her name is Ellie. Ellie is the blond woman from 1954 who held Faraday at gunpoint. He kept thinking she looked familiar and most everyone assumed she was his mother (Ms. Hawking).

**fistofrage** · 04-02-2009, 03:56 PM

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Originally posted by YankeePride

Well, Miles basically explained what I was trying to say for pages much more simply.

Everything has already happened and they are now experiencing it. This is their present (though, it is the past), but this is Ben's past (though, it is Little Ben's present).

Except that they are spectators so to speak......

Like Jack not helping little Ben because he knows Ben lives with or without his help. What happened, happened apparantly. So when Miles and Hurley are having their debate its like they are asking themselves to act or not to act. Apparantly it doesn't matter.

Thats why I say they aren't really "experiencing it" because they can't alter it. They are just watching, even participating, but changing nothing. So while it is their present, they are literally of no consequence as it was explained yesterday.

It creates a paradox though. Jack does nothing because he knows what the future brings. Yet did the future become the future because Jack did nothing?
The way they are describing it is NO. But the way the time line is described the answer would be YES. Meaning that in Ben's timeline Jack not doing anything is reality and that led to him having to be handed over to the Hostiles.

* LOST: Season 5 Discussion*

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