Suicide Squad (2016?)

[The JareBear]

Re: Suicide Squad (2016?)

Obviously I haven't see the film so I can't formulate an accurate view on the matter, but just looking at it from the outside, wouldn't you want as much Joker as possible (as long as it makes sense)? I feel like Joker and Harley are the two you really need to establish for future potential box office paydays in the Batman franchise.

Or is it kinda like how they don't want Darth Vader to dominate Rogue One?

[RockinDaMike]

Re: Suicide Squad (2016?)

Obviously I haven't see the film so I can't formulate an accurate view on the matter, but just looking at it from the outside, wouldn't you want as much Joker as possible (as long as it makes sense)? I feel like Joker and Harley are the two you really need to establish for future potential box office paydays in the Batman franchise.

Or is it kinda like how they don't want Darth Vader to dominate Rogue One?

I think they would have crossed the line of being a Suicide Squad movie to a Harley/Joker movie. I thought there was more than enough to be excited for the pairing in the future. Greatest love story since Natural Born Killers!

[The JareBear]

Re: Suicide Squad (2016?)

I think they would have crossed the line of being a Suicide Squad movie to a Harley/Joker movie. I thought there was more than enough to be excited for the pairing in the future. Greatest love story since Natural Born Killers!

Haha, yes sir.

[Blzer]

Re: Suicide Squad (2016?)

Okay, I'm going to go into spoiler conversation for a couple of those who have seen it. Here are my two problems in the film. The first one I think is agreed upon by everybody, but the second one is me branching out a little bit into "what they could have done" like what I did when talking about Creed.

#1

Spoiler

Viola says "We need a suicide squad" without any actual imminent threat, then the threat happens because of her witch. Of course, she won't admit it... but she and Rick Flag are guilty of this happening. Rick is the only one who actually feels guilt over it though, of course. Then the government shows no hesitance to unleashing Task Force X immediately as well.

Enchantress seemed like an awesome character until she became her "royal" self with her heart, by the way. Once she transformed there, she reminded me of Elsa from Frozen.

Spoiler

Then she and her "brother" were just terrible. I forget the villain in Thor 2, but the brother reminded me of that metal thingy in Thor 1, or X-Men: Days of Future Past. Not very interesting to me, nor was Diablo when he became true Diablo. Their little civilian-converted-baddie foot soldiers weren't great either. I don't think a single one of them were even able to lay a finger on our protagonists. They were just too easy to defeat. I think it was the case for The Avengers as well, but at least they had tiers of difficult enemies.

Also when the thing happens, they certainly work fast to get the team together, but then they kind of stand around for a while. By the time they start the mission, 24 hours have probably already passed. I guess that was for time to evacuate the city (and so they could go in without the public's awareness), but we never really got a timetable on how imminent the threat was. Heck, not until the last fifteen minutes of the film did we even know what the threat was!

Clearly this McGuffin could have been better written, drafted, or edited into the film (which of course might help with an extended cut, but I doubt it).

#2

Spoiler

Two things are going to come into play here, and the second one can work independently of this first one.

Okay, the "obey or you die" threat was uncreative. I imagine that the majority of these folks were getting life sentences, or at least enough years to put them out for a time where death was probably a viable option for some of them anyway. Poor Diablo was probably in an "I'd rather die a man than live a monster" state, but I'll get to him later. And it's not even a painful death! I mean okay, a bomb inside your neck probably isn't the best way to go, but it's not slow and torturous. They have these guys a pretty easy out, and it was vulnerable to boot (see how they disarmed Harley's, for instance).

Would have been served better with guaranteeing them some sort of immunity perk. No, they can't just let these guys roam the streets, but maybe they are tracked with what they have and any other sort of advancement. Or hell, maybe they get to stay on as a government project. Again, this is to get them to willingly go into training, and when the bad thing happens, "Let's go save the world" comes into play. I just don't think death was enough, and I think it would have more than made one of them want to kill Flag, Waller, Griggs, or anybody else who stood in their way.

Now, you might be thinking: "That would be a stupid movie," but Waller's guarantee can be with her fingers crossed behind her back. If Deadshot somehow finds in the files that the plan is to capture or kill them afterward or something, now is a time for them to go on their own terms and do as needed. Deadshot's motivations would still be intact, Harley still might be for herself and her puddin', Killer Croc certainly would still be doing what he was doing, Katana would still be at Flag's defense, Boomerang would have straight up left, and Diablo might have transformed back into his devilish self as soon as he comes to that realization that "What we did defines who we are, and we can't change that just because we want to."

This movie should not have ended by vindicating these guys, even if it's only morally so. As great of characters as they are, they have to enter both the audience's and DC universe's consciousness that these are not good guys (except maybe Katana). I'm fine keeping some of them in antihero status like Deadshot and Boomerang, but it would have been nice to turn Croc and Diablo into pure evil. The last scene saved the film as Harley is clearly still a bad guy (and she worked out just fine, because though she can have her positives she is still loyal to the Joker who is pure evil).

In my opinion, outside of issue #1 that I stated and any other edits to de-layer the first half of the film a little bit, I think a less than "happy" ending would have went a long way in the critics' eyes. It should have gotten more grim as a result, even if they completed the objective on their own terms (again, except for Boomerang, who could have left at the bar as he did). I'm trying to think whether or not it would have worked better if Flag was aware of Waller's plans, or if he knows then he tries to still restore their confidence that he can still somehow clear their name or do something for the greater good, even if they would have to decide for themselves what to do thereafter.

Last thing about Enchantress: it also would have been more emotionally impacting if June was killed in light of destroying Enchantress (based on what June said to Rick in the subway). Granted, we didn't get enough time with them to make it too emotionally impacting for us as audience members, but this is where an extended first half could have worked in its favor as well.

Just in the end, the whole aspect of their threat being death shouldn't bode as too much of a fearful tactic for this squad. They could come up with something more sinister (in a "I will destroy anything you've ever loved" kind of thing, which of course would have been big for Deadshot), for something with a glass half full regarding their sentencing (not exactly true freedom though of course, as I said... just tailor toward the individuals, if only we got to learn more about characters like Boomerang and Croc). This of course could have helped them turn for the worse if/when they find out that's not Waller's intentions at the end. Remember, they can still inject them with the pill bombs and threaten to kill them if they deviate from instruction, but this is an added wrinkle to before they are tasked to gear up/train/whatever it is they need to do.

Question:

Spoiler

Does anyone know what came of Captain Griggs? Yeah, he forcibly hooked up the Joker with some necessary resources so he could apprehend Harley, but I can't remember what happened to him after that. Did he die? Was he caught? Is he hiding in the shadows? Does the Joker still have him? I completely missed that part, or it wasn't in this edit of the film.

Weird little thing:

Spoiler

Kind of bizarre Diablo started calling them all "family" after just a few hours on the job. I get it, he has no more family (by his hand, no less) and he stays forever isolated in a fireproof housing tank thingy, but it probably came on too fast for the others to be like, "Yeah, you can call us that."

I did like how Harley and Deadshot kind of formed as friends though. Felt a bit more natural, or at least in that way that one trusted the other.

[Blzer]

Re: Suicide Squad (2016?)

Obviously I haven't see the film so I can't formulate an accurate view on the matter, but just looking at it from the outside, wouldn't you want as much Joker as possible (as long as it makes sense)? I feel like Joker and Harley are the two you really need to establish for future potential box office paydays in the Batman franchise.

Or is it kinda like how they don't want Darth Vader to dominate Rogue One?

I think they would have crossed the line of being a Suicide Squad movie to a Harley/Joker movie. I thought there was more than enough to be excited for the pairing in the future. Greatest love story since Natural Born Killers!

I agree, they covered them into a believable love-struck pairing, and will be great to see taking on Batman. Harley has this great dichotomy going for her. She is pure crazy. The Joker is significantly less crazy than her to me, haha. She is so broken and hell-bent, and can go one way or another like 'that'. Pure psychopath, and that's why we love her.

[Leon]

Re: Suicide Squad (2016?)

Okay, I'm going to go into spoiler conversation for a couple of those who have seen it. Here are my two problems in the film. The first one I think is agreed upon by everybody, but the second one is me branching out a little bit into "what they could have done" like what I did when talking about Creed.

#1

Spoiler

Viola says "We need a suicide squad" without any actual imminent threat, then the threat happens because of her witch. Of course, she won't admit it... but she and Rick Flag are guilty of this happening. Rick is the only one who actually feels guilt over it though, of course. Then the government shows no hesitance to unleashing Task Force X immediately as well.

Enchantress seemed like an awesome character until she became her "royal" self with her heart, by the way. Once she transformed there, she reminded me of Elsa from Frozen.

Spoiler

Then she and her "brother" were just terrible. I forget the villain in Thor 2, but the brother reminded me of that metal thingy in Thor 1, or X-Men: Days of Future Past. Not very interesting to me, nor was Diablo when he became true Diablo. Their little civilian-converted-baddie foot soldiers weren't great either. I don't think a single one of them were even able to lay a finger on our protagonists. They were just too easy to defeat. I think it was the case for The Avengers as well, but at least they had tiers of difficult enemies.

Also when the thing happens, they certainly work fast to get the team together, but then they kind of stand around for a while. By the time they start the mission, 24 hours have probably already passed. I guess that was for time to evacuate the city (and so they could go in without the public's awareness), but we never really got a timetable on how imminent the threat was. Heck, not until the last fifteen minutes of the film did we even know what the threat was!

Clearly this McGuffin could have been better written, drafted, or edited into the film (which of course might help with an extended cut, but I doubt it).

#2

Spoiler

Two things are going to come into play here, and the second one can work independently of this first one.

Okay, the "obey or you die" threat was uncreative. I imagine that the majority of these folks were getting life sentences, or at least enough years to put them out for a time where death was probably a viable option for some of them anyway. Poor Diablo was probably in an "I'd rather die a man than live a monster" state, but I'll get to him later. And it's not even a painful death! I mean okay, a bomb inside your neck probably isn't the best way to go, but it's not slow and torturous. They have these guys a pretty easy out, and it was vulnerable to boot (see how they disarmed Harley's, for instance).

Would have been served better with guaranteeing them some sort of immunity perk. No, they can't just let these guys roam the streets, but maybe they are tracked with what they have and any other sort of advancement. Or hell, maybe they get to stay on as a government project. Again, this is to get them to willingly go into training, and when the bad thing happens, "Let's go save the world" comes into play. I just don't think death was enough, and I think it would have more than made one of them want to kill Flag, Waller, Griggs, or anybody else who stood in their way.

Now, you might be thinking: "That would be a stupid movie," but Waller's guarantee can be with her fingers crossed behind her back. If Deadshot somehow finds in the files that the plan is to capture or kill them afterward or something, now is a time for them to go on their own terms and do as needed. Deadshot's motivations would still be intact, Harley still might be for herself and her puddin', Killer Croc certainly would still be doing what he was doing, Katana would still be at Flag's defense, Boomerang would have straight up left, and Diablo might have transformed back into his devilish self as soon as he comes to that realization that "What we did defines who we are, and we can't change that just because we want to."

This movie should not have ended by vindicating these guys, even if it's only morally so. As great of characters as they are, they have to enter both the audience's and DC universe's consciousness that these are not good guys (except maybe Katana). I'm fine keeping some of them in antihero status like Deadshot and Boomerang, but it would have been nice to turn Croc and Diablo into pure evil. The last scene saved the film as Harley is clearly still a bad guy (and she worked out just fine, because though she can have her positives she is still loyal to the Joker who is pure evil).

In my opinion, outside of issue #1 that I stated and any other edits to de-layer the first half of the film a little bit, I think a less than "happy" ending would have went a long way in the critics' eyes. It should have gotten more grim as a result, even if they completed the objective on their own terms (again, except for Boomerang, who could have left at the bar as he did). I'm trying to think whether or not it would have worked better if Flag was aware of Waller's plans, or if he knows then he tries to still restore their confidence that he can still somehow clear their name or do something for the greater good, even if they would have to decide for themselves what to do thereafter.

Last thing about Enchantress: it also would have been more emotionally impacting if June was killed in light of destroying Enchantress (based on what June said to Rick in the subway). Granted, we didn't get enough time with them to make it too emotionally impacting for us as audience members, but this is where an extended first half could have worked in its favor as well.

Just in the end, the whole aspect of their threat being death shouldn't bode as too much of a fearful tactic for this squad. They could come up with something more sinister (in a "I will destroy anything you've ever loved" kind of thing, which of course would have been big for Deadshot), for something with a glass half full regarding their sentencing (not exactly true freedom though of course, as I said... just tailor toward the individuals, if only we got to learn more about characters like Boomerang and Croc). This of course could have helped them turn for the worse if/when they find out that's not Waller's intentions at the end. Remember, they can still inject them with the pill bombs and threaten to kill them if they deviate from instruction, but this is an added wrinkle to before they are tasked to gear up/train/whatever it is they need to do.

Question:

Spoiler

Does anyone know what came of Captain Griggs? Yeah, he forcibly hooked up the Joker with some necessary resources so he could apprehend Harley, but I can't remember what happened to him after that. Did he die? Was he caught? Is he hiding in the shadows? Does the Joker still have him? I completely missed that part, or it wasn't in this edit of the film.

Weird little thing:

Spoiler

Kind of bizarre Diablo started calling them all "family" after just a few hours on the job. I get it, he has no more family (by his hand, no less) and he stays forever isolated in a fireproof housing tank thingy, but it probably came on too fast for the others to be like, "Yeah, you can call us that."

I did like how Harley and Deadshot kind of formed as friends though. Felt a bit more natural, or at least in that way that one trusted the other.

Man, you really take the cake when it comes to these things! I will chime in on a few things though:

Spoiler #1

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure Waller made Task Force X aka Suicide Squad in case of a future, Superman-type threat. Enchantress getting away was a mere coincidence and basically allowed her to test out what her new task force was made of.

Totally agree with Enchantress being cooler without the heart. I totally laughed not so loudly near the end when she was giving everyone hallucinations and she looked like she was dancing with her hips moving around on some Shakira "Hips Don't Lie" ****. The brother was funny to look at as well with that Destroyer (Thor 1) like body while keeping the human face.

Your Question

Spoiler

I think Griggs is still alive. My memory is a bit fuzzy after just one viewing but I think the last we saw of him was when he slipped Harley the phone.

Weird Little Thing

Spoiler

I found it more funny that Diablo really had all those tatoos on his face when he still had his whole family. His wife and kids certainly take to him well!

I totally agree with you on Harley and Deadshot. They really had chemistry and developed that "friendship." It didn't even occur to me that both actors were together in "Focus" while watching SS.

Unrelated note:
I am totally down to be with a psycho girlfriend (minus the probable murder) if they can all be like Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn.

[Blzer]

Re: Suicide Squad (2016?)

Man, you really take the cake when it comes to these things! I will chime in on a few things though:

Haha I had a 50 minute drive back to my house after the flick. Lots to process!

Spoiler #1

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure Waller made Task Force X aka Suicide Squad in case of a future, Superman-type threat. Enchantress getting away was a mere coincidence and basically allowed her to test out what her new task force was made of.

Totally agree with Enchantress being cooler without the heart. I totally laughed not so loudly near the end when she was giving everyone hallucinations and she looked like she was dancing with her hips moving around on some Shakira "Hips Don't Lie" ****. The brother was funny to look at as well with that Destroyer (Thor 1) like body while keeping the human face.

Spoiler

I know that's why she made it. I wasn't really against that. I was kind of against the coincidence that one of her potential suicide squad members is the cause for the rest of them to have to come into existence. The thing that was meant to solve a problem became a problem without another problem even at hand.

It's one thing for Nolan's Batman to have The Joker come into existence because of Batman being there, because things were already happening before that and he was taking care of them. But if he went into a crime-free city to become Batman for the sake of vigilantism and The Joker came to be as a result, that would have been incredibly stupid.

Hahaha yeah while "Lights Out Diana" Enchantress was awesome, the shimmy-shake version was laugh out loud hilarious.

Your Question

Spoiler

I think Griggs is still alive. My memory is a bit fuzzy after just one viewing but I think the last we saw of him was when he slipped Harley the phone.

Thanks. Wonder if there's anything left on the cutting room floor to clarify that better.

Weird Little Thing

Spoiler

I found it more funny that Diablo really had all those tatoos on his face when he still had his whole family. His wife and kids certainly take to him well!

Spoiler

Yeah, when they were going to flashback I was half-expecting him to have a clean body. I personally think that would have been better, at least with one of the shots... but then it wouldn't explain how he would go from murdering his family without tattoos to turning himself in with tattoos, unless one could argue that he could tattoo himself by edging his own skin with his fiery fingers or something.

Spoiler

I totally agree with you on Harley and Deadshot. They really had chemistry and developed that "friendship." It didn't even occur to me that both actors were together in "Focus" while watching SS.

Huh, I didn't even know that. Haven't seen that movie.

Unrelated note:
I am totally down to be with a psycho girlfriend (minus the probable murder) if they can all be like Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn.

I was thinking the same thing.

[The JareBear]

Re: Suicide Squad (2016?)

Cant wait to see this film almost just so I can participate in this discussion. Holding off on clicking the spoilers, just barely. I love a good movie chat

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Suicide Squad (2016?)

Just got done seeing it, liked it a lot more than I expected, and I'm one of the ones that thought it would be bad long before even trailers came. Strangely, I don't really think it was a good movie. The actual plot elements of it were pretty terrible. But I liked the characters for the most part a lot. I liked Joker, which surprised me. Harley's accent was terrible, bugged the **** out of me lol. I guess that's the problem with cartoon characters, Harley has a distinct voice in my mind. But they did much better than I thought they would, and that's just based on my own expectations. I'm surprised reviews didn't like it more.

Spoiler

My main gripe was the entire last probably half hour. Just absolutely awful IMO. They just couldn't let the bad guys be bad guys, became more cheesy than even a Superman movie should be.

[Blzer]

Re: Suicide Squad (2016?)

The actual plot elements of it were pretty terrible. But I liked the characters for the most part a lot.

Spoiler

My main gripe was the entire last probably half hour. Just absolutely awful IMO. They just couldn't let the bad guys be bad guys, became more cheesy than even a Superman movie should be.

Just so you know, I'm actually quoting this part of your post even though I quoted that above part. I sort of think this part of your post is spoiler-ish so I just wanted to respond to it.

It sounds a lot like what I had issue with (see my issue #2 specifically, even though issue #1 has to do with the villain). We are not at the tail-end of our DC universe, we have just begun it. If we wanted to give them redeeming qualities, we can't be doing it at the forefront of it. The only thing they should have agreed upon doing is destroying that otherworldly thing because it is attacking their home planet. After that, they should kind of find their ways of being where they were.

I'd hate to like/root for these guys in films after this one. Waller is a perfect example of how a bad guy could be, though ironically if this was a Batman film she would be seen as a good guy. Just because she had a button that could blow up our protagonists in this film though, she has the bad guy light shined on her, but it worked well and I liked it. Their closure could have been tailored more to the fact that they are bad guys, is all.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Suicide Squad (2016?)

Spoiler

Just so you know, I'm actually quoting this part of your post even though I quoted that above part. I sort of think this part of your post is spoiler-ish so I just wanted to respond to it.

It sounds a lot like what I had issue with (see my issue #2 specifically, even though issue #1 has to do with the villain). We are not at the tail-end of our DC universe, we have just begun it. If we wanted to give them redeeming qualities, we can't be doing it at the forefront of it. The only thing they should have agreed upon doing is destroying that otherworldly thing because it is attacking their home planet. After that, they should kind of find their ways of being where they were.

I'd hate to like/root for these guys in films after this one. Waller is a perfect example of how a bad guy could be, though ironically if this was a Batman film she would be seen as a good guy. Just because she had a button that could blow up our protagonists in this film though, she has the bad guy light shined on her, but it worked well and I liked it. Their closure could have been tailored more to the fact that they are bad guys, is all.

Spoiler

I spoilered it, I don't really think it's a spoiler but I see how it could be. Your last sentence is basically my point. And it's not even just that they were good for me, it's how over the top it was. "I've already lost one family, I'm not gonna lose another!" How many times did everyone mention they were friends? It was just so much.

The Rick Flag romance plot missed me because I didn't care about him or the woman he had fallen in love with as characters so that also was just eh.

Agree 100% on Waller, she was just awesome. When she cleared that room of FBI agents, I was so happy.

[Blzer]

Re: Suicide Squad (2016?)

Spoiler

The Rick Flag romance plot missed me because I didn't care about him or the woman he had fallen in love with as characters so that also was just eh.

Totally, but that's where perhaps an extended cut could do some good.

[Hiro1]

Re: Suicide Squad (2016?)

As someone who enjoyed Superman and even liked 3/5ths of BVS I think Suicide Squad sucked. I didn't care about any of the characters. It started well enough, but began to get messy and terribly cliche. Will Smith's jokes felt edited in and 90% fell flat to me. The movie just felt off and forced.

The accents used by the characters annoyed me at times, but none more than Killer Croc's blac-cent. Every time he spoke I thought back to the scene where Robert Downey is confronted about his in Tropic Thunder.

http://youtu.be/SDwj1Gn1fZc

I place a ton of value on the main villain in comic movies and SS's baddie was plain awful.

[Bellsprout]

Re: Suicide Squad (2016?)

Not as good as I wanted it to be but I was Star Wars levels hyped for this. It could never reach that bar.

Turn off your brain, allow the best looking woman in the world to grace you with a really fun performance, and just enjoy it. It's mostly fun as heck, if still ultimately disappointing.

7.5/10 if I had to rate it. It's worth seeing and it's not the complete car fire that the critics are saying it is.


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[mestevo]

Re: Suicide Squad (2016?)

Totally, but that's where perhaps an extended cut could do some good.

I'd like to see the director's version of the movie, hope that's released.

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